Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11927
31 Mar 2008 / #61
Why should WE leave EU....it's our and France's baby after all.
YOU are the newbies...you go! :)
YOU are the newbies...you go! :)
Thank to Polish people for current relations with Ukraine
our and France's baby after all.
correction, it used to be your baby, after 27 members, it not anymore... it belongs to all of Europe.....
Start another EU, we will see how many countries will follow..... *snickers*
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11927
31 Mar 2008 / #63
Start another EU, we will see how many countries will follow
We did it once, we could do it another time...quite to the contrary to eastern Europe which till now has NOTHING to show off...just begging and whining!
Or else why aren't you opening your own club without these bad Germans already??? Who is hindering you? Nobody! Outside of your incompetence!
LOL :)
But it's so easy...breaking into a clean, well kept house....sucking out all the money...enjoying all the gifts and comfort....but behaving like locusts..if it's destroyed and empty then you go look elsewhere, right?
We did it once, we could do it another time...quite to the contrary to eastern Europe which till now has NOTHING to show off...just begging and whining!
lol, good luck.... another time.... I think your living in a dream. wake up bratwurst....
Or else why aren't you opening your own club without these bad Germans already???
LOL :)
LOL :)
I never said bad Germans, I said stupid Germans who like to be the new troublemakers in the block, there is a differance.....
But it's so easy...breaking into a clean, well kept house....sucking out all the money...behaving like overstaying guest...or better yet, like locusts..if it's destroyed and empty then you go look elsewhere, right?
no, we believe in the EU, it belongs to all of Europe, regardless if Germany believes that it only belongs to them..... btw whose the one whining... locusts??? overstayed guests???? lol
and here's some info for you, Poles are more pro-EU than Germans..... if you are so dissapointed like I said before, the door is open and feel free to leave...
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11927
31 Mar 2008 / #65
Poles are more pro-EU than Germans
Yes, that's true!
More and more Germans become disillusioned with the EU.
Nobody likes to be taken for granted, abused as moneybag but unheard at
important decisions.
And since we pay this all to a big part not a development you should take so lightly..or ignore...
If that's go further in this direction you won't know what happens.
And I asked you before...why should Germany leave...we build it up...it's much more ours than yours. Wouldn't it be easier for you if you take your eastern european friends and try to build up the same?
Look at Crowie...he would fall over himself for something pan-slavic! :)
I never heard a good argument from you!
Nobody likes to be taken for granted, abused as moneybag but unheard at
important decisions.
important decisions.
no one is being taken for granted of....... but don't think for one second that just because Germany is a the biggest contributor means they should have a monopoly on decisions..... throwing money doesn't give you the right to be cause divisions....
And I asked you before...why should Germany leave...we build it up...it's much more ours than yours
I hope to God, not all Germans hold your view(this mine, mine , mine attitude)..... EU belongs to all of Europe......
I never heard a good argument from you!
lol, of course not your too emotionaly involved and are busy writing childish posts....
Why should WE leave EU....it's our and France's baby after all.
When Russia and Germany worked together it was always good for both of us! :)
What's wrong with that?
What's wrong with that?
We did it once, we could do it another time
not to mention if you consider your posts good arguements than Im not suprised that you dont even know what a good arguement is....
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11927
31 Mar 2008 / #67
throwing money doesn't give you the right to be cause divisions....
When you take the money....
EU belongs to all of Europe.
We build it!
I doubt you and your "friends" would be able to do the same!
(Being locusts is so much easier..locusts with a loudmouth that is)
lol, of course not your too emotionaly involved and are busy writing childish posts....
I asked for a rational argument...that's what I got, thanks! Says it all! :)
When you take the money....
what????? all countries contribute an equal percentage compared to their gdp... if Poland GDP was higher it would contribute what it should.... no matter how much money Poland contributes, Poland would never see the EU as theirs, Poles see the EU for the whole of Europe and not belonging to the country adding the most money.... to Poles and many other people, the EU is more than just about money, it's about respect, diversity, solidarity, concepts that are clearly unkown to you.....
We build it!
I doubt you and your "friends" would be able to do the same!
I doubt you and your "friends" would be able to do the same!
Well build another if Germans are so unsatisfied......... Look at your snobby attitude, countless countries contributed greatly to the EU we see today....
I asked for a rational argument...that's what I got, thanks! Says it all! :)
read my twenty previous posts......... then you can see a rational argument..... I've read yours and have only seen 1 out of 20.....
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11927
31 Mar 2008 / #69
Okay....nice mud throwing party...enjoyed it greatly!
Have to go now...*waves*
:)
Have to go now...*waves*
:)
will continue this some other time.......
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11927
31 Mar 2008 / #71
Great! *bows out*
:)
:)
Bratwurst when you talk about German imaginative victims it is very current issue. When we talk about oue true victimes , you tell us to "get over it". Why Merkel havent said for Isrealis to "get over Holocaust" and stop crying ? But she was beging for merci.
Germans don't have law to tell us if we should rememebr or not.
As to Ukraine:
Germans are first A SS lickers of Russia.
Germans avoid fighting in Afganistan (you don't want to send soldiers to dangerous regions). Countries who fight in Afghanistan on first line want Ukriaine in NATO.
I find it pathetic that German who do everything to make NATO unsuccesful now want to block Ukraine membership because of Russia.
THIS DISCUSSION ISN'T ABOUT EU. IT IS IF GERMANY AND RUSSIA CAN DECIDE IF UKRIANIE IS INDEPENDENT COUNTRY OR NOT.
(I find it funy when I hear eastern German talking about how much they pay for EU, you still take)
That is why AMERICAN HEGEMONY IS IN POLANDS BUSINESS. SORY lovely EUROPE ...
READ BRATWURS AND YOU WILL UNDERTSAND SOME OF OUR DECISIONS ...
americans are ***** but we don't have choice ...
Bratwurst article for you : news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7313570.stm
all europe waits to moment when Germany will ign EU constitutuion and you will know your place ;)
Germans don't have law to tell us if we should rememebr or not.
As to Ukraine:
Germans are first A SS lickers of Russia.
Germans avoid fighting in Afganistan (you don't want to send soldiers to dangerous regions). Countries who fight in Afghanistan on first line want Ukriaine in NATO.
I find it pathetic that German who do everything to make NATO unsuccesful now want to block Ukraine membership because of Russia.
THIS DISCUSSION ISN'T ABOUT EU. IT IS IF GERMANY AND RUSSIA CAN DECIDE IF UKRIANIE IS INDEPENDENT COUNTRY OR NOT.
(I find it funy when I hear eastern German talking about how much they pay for EU, you still take)
That is why AMERICAN HEGEMONY IS IN POLANDS BUSINESS. SORY lovely EUROPE ...
READ BRATWURS AND YOU WILL UNDERTSAND SOME OF OUR DECISIONS ...
americans are ***** but we don't have choice ...
Bratwurst article for you : news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7313570.stm
He said the "French-German axis" was an "indispensable driving force" in Europe, but in order to bring its 27 nations together "we need a French-British entente".
all europe waits to moment when Germany will ign EU constitutuion and you will know your place ;)
One big happy family, happy happy happy.
Majority doesn't seem to mean much to you concerning the majority of Ukrainians who don't want to become NATO-member...
Let me ask you, Why was the EU treaty not put to a referendum in France or Netherlands again????.... You want to know why, because it probably would not be approved.... How are you going to sit here and tell me Germany is concerned about Ukrainian public opinion if it doesn't even care about public opinion in other member states...
Stop using this lame excuse because we all know that, that's not the reason....
I think Polish people will always look down on the ukrainians becuse of the history betwen ukraine and Poland, I heard they still teach polish children that ukraine once was a Polish "Województwo/province".
I think Polish people will always look down on the ukrainians becuse of the history betwen ukraine and Poland.
That's not true, Poles don't look down on Ukrainians......
Srry to dissapoint you comrade! but i have been i Poland and lived there so i know what im talking about, and it was not nice things they told me about the ukrainians.
how long ago was this???????
I was visiting Poland last summer.
I believe you, but I'll be lying if I didn't say that I'm suprised..... what did you hear????????
Bratwurst Boy 8 | 11927
2 Apr 2008 / #81
all europe waits to moment when Germany will sign EU constitutuion and you will know your place ;)
Hehe:
All germanophobes are going to hate this (lesser, Lukasz, Crowie...)
About our place in Europe (take note Matty!)
business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/economics/article3644997.ece
...Combined trade with what in many cases were former territories of the old Germanic empire now exceeds that with Britain or America.
It could be argued that, 20 years after the end of communism, in terms of trade the old 19th century map of Europe is once more beginning to emerge, with Germany at the centre and Russia an increasingly significant trading partner. Throw in the German federal budget surplus of €200m and suddenly it seems the Germans are sitting pretty, astride Europe and conquering the world...
It could be argued that, 20 years after the end of communism, in terms of trade the old 19th century map of Europe is once more beginning to emerge, with Germany at the centre and Russia an increasingly significant trading partner. Throw in the German federal budget surplus of €200m and suddenly it seems the Germans are sitting pretty, astride Europe and conquering the world...
:)
lesser? That's for you:
...Last year manufacturing output grew by more than 6%. Exports rose more than 8%, making Germany the world export leader, ahead of even China, for the fifth year running, with total trade of €969 billion (£758 billion). Overall, the German economy expanded in 2007 by 2.5%, with external trade accounting for 1.4% of this growth....
Not to mention that we have a world recession and german unemployment is DECREASING to now around 8 percent...
Darn german socialists and those mean bureaucrats in Brussel..destroying Germany and Europe too as they are it, right? LOL:)
The Germans have done their homework. They are competitive, efficient, innovative and, with the label 'made in Germany', renowned for quality."
Yup! That's Germany!
Beat that....:)
Oh and Matty...remember your quote about Germany perceived as a troublemaker?
Another disappointment I fear, this survey says Germany most popular country:
globescan.com/news_archives/bbccntryview08/
Germany-rated for the first time this year-gets the most positive ratings of all countries. On average 56 per cent say it is having a positive influence with just 18 per cent saying it is having a negative influence. No country gives Germany a majority negative rating.
David_18 is right, many Poles still have problems with Ukrainians. It can be a generation thing, as ever here, but word spreads unfortunately. Thankfully, things have gotten much better rather than worse but don't imagine that Ukraine would necessarily adopt the Polish position in NATO affairs.
It can be a generation thing, as ever here, but word spreads unfortunately
I read that Ukraine made it a crime to deny what happened in 1932-33 and yet you pretend as if the world did not see what took place in 1940-41 and Ukrainian's role?
Why do u also harp on about history? That is then, and this is now. I didn't even address this aspect. U also took it to the govt level, I was talking about ur everyday person and their perception of Ukrainians, basing my view on what I heard from different sources.
miranda
2 Apr 2008 / #85
OK, it is my turn to make a comment since I am Ukrainian and was born in Poland.
My paretnts were resettled from the southern part of Poland in 1947 by the Polish army and were given 2 hours to pack their belongings. They travelled in cattle compartments for 2 weeks without knowing their destination. Upon arrival in the northern part of Poland, the families were relocated to different destinations, so there would be no contact between family members. Usually one or two families were settled in the Polish dominated village or town. They couldn't practice their religion until 1978, which was Ukrainian catholic. I haven't learned Ukrainian until my teeange years and was only exposed to it in family settings, usually behind the closed doors.
My father was taken to the police on number of occasions and threatened.
There is more but I will not bore you. Just wanted to present a bit of history.
Things have changed a bit, but most of my family emigrated to Canada in the 60s.
I have moved on a long time ago.
My paretnts were resettled from the southern part of Poland in 1947 by the Polish army and were given 2 hours to pack their belongings. They travelled in cattle compartments for 2 weeks without knowing their destination. Upon arrival in the northern part of Poland, the families were relocated to different destinations, so there would be no contact between family members. Usually one or two families were settled in the Polish dominated village or town. They couldn't practice their religion until 1978, which was Ukrainian catholic. I haven't learned Ukrainian until my teeange years and was only exposed to it in family settings, usually behind the closed doors.
My father was taken to the police on number of occasions and threatened.
There is more but I will not bore you. Just wanted to present a bit of history.
Things have changed a bit, but most of my family emigrated to Canada in the 60s.
I have moved on a long time ago.
miranda's account sounds like what my experience was in regards to Ukrainians. I am not one. The very word "Ukrainiec" had a negative undertone, and that is the official name of the nationality. The relations between Poles and Ukrainians were not easy, to say the least, and the UPA (active till late 40's) did not help at all. Kinda like crossing the US/Canada border - don't line up behind a Middle Eastern looking people.
There was a lot of suspicion and the pro-communist hysteria. Everybody was a suspect for any reason, or for no reason at all. It really didn't matter whether you were a Ukrainian or Polish, although an obvious Eastern dialect most Ukrainians had gave them away.
As for forced resettlements - your ethnic background didn't matter either. My wife's family was forced to move to Wroclaw (not that is was such a bad thing), and my parents received an order to move to Zielona Gora in late 1960's. Those were the "Ziemie Odzyskane" (regained lands) and few Poles felt comfortable there. The government made sure that the vacuum left by expelled Germans was filled with Polish citizens. Many did not feel at home for decades, and the "Germans will come back" was a the minds of many.
There was a lot of suspicion and the pro-communist hysteria. Everybody was a suspect for any reason, or for no reason at all. It really didn't matter whether you were a Ukrainian or Polish, although an obvious Eastern dialect most Ukrainians had gave them away.
As for forced resettlements - your ethnic background didn't matter either. My wife's family was forced to move to Wroclaw (not that is was such a bad thing), and my parents received an order to move to Zielona Gora in late 1960's. Those were the "Ziemie Odzyskane" (regained lands) and few Poles felt comfortable there. The government made sure that the vacuum left by expelled Germans was filled with Polish citizens. Many did not feel at home for decades, and the "Germans will come back" was a the minds of many.
miranda
2 Apr 2008 / #87
good post D.
Miranda do you want to discuss details of XX century history of Polish - Ukrainian relations ? There are some details you haven't mentioned ;-). If you want we can discuss it.
Polish theater in Lwow (todays Ukraine)
Old square in wroclaw (todays Poland)
Ukrainian village ...
______________________________________________________________________
as to Ukrainians we support their aspirations we will see what will happen.
Polish theater in Lwow (todays Ukraine)
Old square in wroclaw (todays Poland)
Ukrainian village ...
______________________________________________________________________
as to Ukrainians we support their aspirations we will see what will happen.
JulietEcho 3 | 100
14 Jul 2008 / #89
Miranda, the vistula action was a direct response to the brave UPA "heroes" bestially murdering Poles... It is actually disappointing they reacted so lightly. Number of Ukrainians relocated: 140,000. Number of Poles exterminated by Ukrainian heros 60.000+
Attached is a picture of Polish Children to remind you of eternal "love".
Attached is a picture of Polish Children to remind you of eternal "love".
Wolyn1943.JPG