All this mess about Danzig...

A suggestion of a new moderator? :):):)

on here shopgirl. i don't know him personally.

Wellski...meski notski speakingski anyski polski....so notski I fearski...:(

:)

Gdańsk firstly was Polish ... later it was German ... now it is Polish again.

Yes, indeed. The only things you might recall with proud are the deeds of hoary antiquity.

Borrka reminds me of Polish Doktor Zlo. :) So cold and heartless in his reasoning...

No, I cannot agree with you.

The fact that Poles rebuilt Gdańsk which was looted and burnt in 80% by the Soviet Army is also a reason to feel pride. Soviet Russians destroyed the European cultural heritage because it was alien to them, look what they did with Konigsberg, today called Kaliningrad. This city ceased to exist during WW2 too and was never rebuilt in its original shape. Today it still frightens visitors with its architecture of socialist concrete monsters.

Poles felt committed to reconstruct a lot of destroyed Gdańsk`s architecture and that is what I am proud of. They were able to throw off primitive national prejudice and treated Gdańsk not as German but as European city.

Do you know what I mean? :):):)

Compare:

Gdańsk before WW2:

During

After

Konigsberg, before



Today`s Kaliningrad, the Old Town.



A modern palace, Party Headquarters



:):)

pawian you talk about this town as about German town ... but before WWII it was in big part Polish city...

When in Poland I received a gift of a large book printed in the 1960's that showed Gdańsk before the war, after the war and rebuilt. I too think it wonderful that it was reconstructed as close to how it was before the war!

It is a beautiful city today and definitely Polish, but long-time ago residents that are German also appreciate that it looks like the city they love. A real credit to Poles who during communist days had little money to do the reconstruction. I saw lots of pictures of ordinary Poles working hard on the details of the buildings.

I did not know until recently how different it was with Konigsberg, today called Kaliningrad.

Now, I would like to draw your attention to some rather unknown facts.

Two wonderful Baltic cities: Danzig and Königsberg were destroyed on purpose by the Red Army.
On purpose I said, after fights had been finished.

Then, in the post war times Danzig was carefully (as for commie habits) reconstructed.
Still some parts of it look like ruins of the Bronx (Nowy Port for example).

On the contrary, Königsberg was transformed into some model Soviet city and renamed Kaliningrad in 1946 after the death of Chairman of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR Mikhail Kalinin, one of the Bolsheviks directly responsible for the Katyn crime.

Probably a very specific sense of Stalin's humor - Kaliningrad is close to the Polish border.

Brezhnev consequently ordered that the remains of the Königsberg castle be disposed of so they would no longer be seen as a vestige of Prussian militarism.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not blind because of some "patriotic" pride.
I have been many times both to Gdansk and Kaliningrad.
The difference is striking - we can speak of the two different civilizations lol.

Devastated Soviet "gorod" surrounded by depopulated villages and towns you can find on the pre-ww2 map only, makes a picture of todays Kaliningrad.

Booming center with highest per capita income in Poland is Polish Gdansk.

That's probably the reason I've never heard our German friends making any claims to Kaliningradskaya Oblast' lol.
Just joking - it's a typical German hypocrysy if you know what I mean.

Taking a purely objective stance, the best thing that could happen to the tri city is to be handed over to the Germans. A qucikly glance at the bastardised mess of Sopot, brought about in large by the greed, incapability and corruption of those in charge, should be enough to convince the rational of this

No Borrka, I was unaware so much damage was done by the Red Army after the fighting. Thanks for the information. I do remember that everyone, Poles and Germans fled westward to escape them.

The prosperity of Gdańsk by contrast to Kaliningrad was an interesting observation.

However, I have read on the net soemwhere of some who would wish to make Kaliningrad once more a Prussian area. Not sure I can find the link again. If I do, I'll post it. Anyway, my point is never say never about claims. Even the weirest ones. LOL

...no comment necessary!


Well, Poles made it hard for Germans to reach Königsberg already BEFORE WWII (not even a railway was allowed), so they won't even try now..

Not true.
Everything, bikers including lol was allowed after passports control.
Just a border with no visas.

Bikes huh??? The connection between two parts of a country through bikes???
How generous!

And it's true...no autobahn, no railway...Poles didn't even wanted to negotiate!

I love German sense of humor and their feeling for sarcasm.

What humor? Which sarcasm???

Do you find Germans to be serious people, BB?

At home we are laughing all the time...it's only when foreigners look at us we get our serious face out! Honestly!

Why the need for change? Do you value the trait of seriousness?

That was funny. The "generous" bike route to East Prussia.

And makes a point. I think whether, Poles, Germans, Baltics, everyone could point to some injustice of the other.

BTW.....I was attempting to see if I could find the link that I mentioned. So far no luck, but on second thought I believe it was in regard to the Lithuanian Prussians that lived there and decided to align with Germany. Very complicated as to various Lithuanians and their views of each other. I think the speculation was that now that area is too hard to get to for Russia and some Lithuanian Prussians might like to resurrect Prussia based not on Germans, but original Pruss and Lithuanians.

My eyes cross attempting to understand all the former cultures and ethnicities in the area. :-/

Now where did I put my smilies...


I tell ya....we all should unify and just merge...we are so mixed up anyhow! :)

Do dupy chyba ;) :) ;) :)

Ah....well, we can. On the great melting pot of the Polish Forum! :-)

Yes, who's that frowning German tho? ;)

*group hug* Hey, it's just hard to see the smile through the helmet! LOL

Pointing on the fate of Kalingrad as an example of "Russian barbarism" you hypocriticaly omit the circumstances which leaded to this devastation. It was a war. You should blame americans and brits for atrocious bombing of Leipzig, that was an act of real barbarism, meanwhile fight for King's mount was a honest battle.

And the next! Why nobody want to remember about ruines of Russian cities?

Stalingrad! Leningrad! Nobody will forget about them...