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The Emperor is naked. Lech Walesa, fool or hero ?


frd  7 | 1379  
31 May 2009 /  #31
Kuron, Michnik, Walesa, Mazowiecki

I don't know what did you read exactly, but putting these people - especially Kuron who was imprisoned, badly repressed along with whole his family - in the same bucket along with communists is going over the top. You can create such "matrix"-like alternative history for every country... and every person. In Poland there were years of research and judgement of these times. It's like saying that earth is flat because **** you copernicus..

I guess I can throw it all to the "9/11 was planned by Bush", "area 51 ufo conspiracy" bin after what you said...

Regarding your IQ argument, intelligence != wisdom, and although Walesa is a pretty simple person, he possess a lot of experience, that's why universities are inviting him for lectures, and although he may use colloquial and simple language he still has got a lot of wisdom to pass.
OP theblueenigma  3 | 188  
31 May 2009 /  #32
Except that Walesa was already known around the world 4 years before most even heard about Gorbachev. Gorbachev saw Walesa in the spotlight and Gorbachev wasn't the one who put Walesa there.

No, but some say it was the collapsing communist regime in Poland that did.

Of course it was caused by a lot of factors, and of course Walesa alone is not responsible for the collapse, no one person is. But Walesa was the first one in the spotlight.

He was indeed

If you attempted something clever here you failed. I see no connection between a dumb Irish and Walesa's.

I doubt I need to 'attempt' anything 'clever' here for you, nor for that matter do I feel even the slightest inclination to 'succeed' for you. However if you want to measure your intellect against mine, feel free :) I see a subtle connection between two stupid people attempting something idiotic without being able to comprehend the consequences. Both got very lucky as a result of their stupidity and 'bravery', one lived and the other lived to be a hero in Poland. I don’t consider a stupid guy jumping a fence a very noble or brave thing to do, although it seems to be repeated to me a lot as one of the most incredible feats of bravery ever . . . I don’t remember saying my train jumper was 'Irish' either ;)

Unfortunately, that "truth" is often custom made to fit the times.

In these times people question their heroes, in the past they were accepted without question. Time will tell

You can create such "matrix"-like alternative history for every country... and every person

True

I guess I can throw it all to the "9/11 was planned by Bush", "area 51 ufo conspiracy" bin after what you said...

Didnt Walesa instigate 9/11 ? :P

that's why universities are inviting him for lectures, and although he may use colloquial and simple language he still has got a lot of wisdom to pass.

Considering some of the things he has said at these lectures about 'putting books up his ass' I doubt they will be inviting him back :)
z_darius  14 | 3960  
31 May 2009 /  #33
No, but some say it was the collapsing communist regime in Poland that did.

So "the collapsing communist regime in Poland" started the collapse of communism in Poland? Interesting and original :)

In these times people question their heroes, in the past they were accepted without question.

Exactly my point.
OP theblueenigma  3 | 188  
31 May 2009 /  #34
Read it again, stay with me. Communisim was doomed anyway, the regime in Poland knew it was about to fall and they would lose everything and be imprisoned. It seems logical that they would attempt to soften the landing by using such an idiot as Walesa. Im surprised that this comes as such a shock to you, considering there are many books wrote about this same theory and Walesa himself has threatened to leave Poland and sue the authors for defamation. Neither he will do of course :)

My gf has just informed me that 'All of Poland knows he is an idiot, people are embarrassed by him, but he did do a couple of things in the past for us. My dad just thinks he was a lucky fool'

That more or less sums it up for me also, the wisdom of Polish women ;)

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