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Are Polish traditions dissapearing


EraAtlantia 2 | 106  
22 Sep 2008 /  #31
i say **** culture...if something is works for the overall good - keep it, if it doesnt then **** it....culture is just national pride, which is just stupid...
pawian 170 | 11,433  
23 Sep 2008 /  #32
Mushroom picking is a way of getting mushroom. It's as much of a tradition as going to the baker's to buy some bread. And it's an excuse to walk around in a forest.
Storks????

You seem to have doubts. Why? Mushroom hunting is a tradition. Storks treated as a good omen are also deeply rooted in Polish culture.

What is tradition:
The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.
A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present.


It derives from the time when wedding could be only a religious ceremony.

Well, everything has once started as religious ceremony. Don`t you know that ancient Slavs believed the forest was a magical place so people who went to it to pick mushrooms were specially prepared?
Switezianka - | 463  
23 Sep 2008 /  #33
Well, everything has once started as religious ceremony.

That's why most traditions in Poland are in fact religious.

Don`t you know that ancient Slavs believed the forest was a magical place so people who went to it to pick mushrooms were specially prepared?

Supposing its true, those preparations were a tradition, not-mushroom-picking. Now, nobody makes any preparations, people just go to forest to gather mushroom just as they go fishing.

What is tradition:
The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

Yes, but culture are those strange things that PEOPLE do. Not what what animals do. We don't do anything about storks, they are just here.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
23 Sep 2008 /  #34
I think traditions die out simply because each generation has less and less free time - it's a shame, but you will find smaller villages keeping the traditions more, but in the cities people wont care.
pawian 170 | 11,433  
23 Sep 2008 /  #35
Yes, but culture are those strange things that PEOPLE do. Not what what animals do. We don't do anything about storks, they are just here.

Not quite. When you talk more to people living in the countryside, you will know that most stork nests have been set up by farmers who wanted to have the birds near or even on their houses.
OP outintheyard 27 | 517  
23 Sep 2008 /  #36
That's why most traditions in Poland are in fact religious

You must agree most of all culture is relgious based in some way or another. I think new traditions will evolve as OSiol haas written. Switezianka, do you follow any of these or are you another with less and less time? Myself I only celebrate a few the relgious holidays and Dyngus day as well as mushroom hunting.
noises - | 6  
23 Sep 2008 /  #37
If culture is a way of living according to a set of certain values important to particular community or society, I think the more religious the group is, the more their traditions are connected to religion. When it's no longer about the values but the ceremony itself (like, let's say, Dyngus - personally I don't know anyone who would consider throwing water at people as a sort of part national identity or something) just because it's fun to keep it, then it is more a custom than tradition really... don't you think?
Switezianka - | 463  
23 Sep 2008 /  #38
Switezianka, do you follow any of these or are you another with less and less time?

I don't follow any of these, because:

1) most of them are rooted in catholic religion, and I don't want to have anything to do with it
2) I don't find them fun enough to cultivate them despite my atheism
3) those non-religious ones are connected with country life and agriculture, and I live in a city

So, they have nothing to do with my sense of identity.

I'd be glad to have some good pagan Noc KupaƂy or Dziady celebration, but I don't know anything about anyone organizing such feasts. They sound very fun to me.
OP outintheyard 27 | 517  
23 Sep 2008 /  #39
Wow ! you are the exact opposite of me . We would make a good couple. lol
Poland is mostly catholic. Are you in Poland? If you are, do you find it difficult sometimes.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
23 Sep 2008 /  #40
1) most of them are rooted in catholic religion, and I don't want to have anything to do with it

Most polish traditions have pagan origin really.
Switezianka - | 463  
23 Sep 2008 /  #41
Are you in Poland? If you are, do you find it difficult sometimes.

I live in Poland and I find it difficult. In fact I'm sometimes forced to take part in some celebrations, but I wouldn't call it cultivating any tradition. I really hate it. And I hate it when Catholic Church tries to influence the public life.

And I'm preparing to apostasy.
Franek 8 | 271  
23 Sep 2008 /  #42
Today, 06:59 Report #41

outintheyard:
Are you in Poland? If you are, do you find it difficult sometimes.

I live in Poland and I find it difficult. In fact I'm sometimes forced to take part in some celebrations, but I wouldn't call it cultivating any tradition. I really hate it. And I hate it when Catholic Church tries to influence the public life.

And I'm preparing to apostasy.

Switezianka],, You can put me in your camp. I went to a Catholic Polish speaking school,and was brought up as a Catholic. But as I grew up, I found that we were taught a bunch of lies.Therfore I lost all faith in all religions.

What the hell is apostasy? My American dictionary does not have the word listed.?
Rakky 9 | 217  
23 Sep 2008 /  #43
Bartolome:
Polter Abend - in Silesia (perhaps not entirely Polish one, but practised in Poland anyway)
It's a crazy party a day before a wedding - men dress like wenches and women like lads. Not only the young ones, mind you.

Never heard of that but sounds cool.

If witnessed in Silesia it may have been brought there by Lemkos in exile. I have heard a Lemko wedding celebration described by a person who has taken part in many of them and this event is on Day 1 of a 3-day celebration. There is a lot of singing involved, and a full day of fun.

Mushroom picking is a way of getting mushroom. It's as much of a tradition as going to the baker's to buy some bread. And it's an excuse to walk around in a forest.

No, it's more than just another trip to a grocer's. It IS traditional in that it is handed down from one generation to the next. Most 'shroomers are knowledgable only in the few species they go out to collect at specific times of the year an in specific types of woods. I got started as an amateur mycologist only because I found some mushrooms that looked like the ones that my father collects. However, this tradition IS a great excuse to walk in beautiful woods, along streams, on cool, foggy mornings when nobody else wants to be out there. It is a meditation that may reward you with something tasty for the table. I love it and practice this tradition as often as I get the chance. Some day I hope to bring a group of my fellow mycologists from the US to the Beskidis to join our Polish and Lemko colleagues there for a weekend foray.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
23 Sep 2008 /  #44
"Polter Abend" is a common tradition in Germany...(it even has a german name)

germanculture.com.ua/library/weekly/aa030601a.htm

Polterabend - this is an informal (informal dress and food) party at the evening before the wedding where plates and dishes are smashed (the broken pieces are thought to bring good luck to the bride). The bride and groom have to clean up everything.

Switezianka - | 463  
23 Sep 2008 /  #45
What the hell is apostasy? My American dictionary does not have the word listed.?

It's an act of formal withdrawal from the Church. Everybody who has been baptised formally belongs to the Catholic Church.

As the result, the Church wants to get some funds in PL, says: "but, you know 97% of the society are members of our organization, so when you give us money, it will serve almost everybody". So, now a group of pissed atheist wants to spoil them those statistics, or doesn't consent to belong to any organization against their will (most people don't choose to get baptised), try inform other atheists about the possibility to leave this organization. 'Cause most people don't know it's even possible.
OP outintheyard 27 | 517  
23 Sep 2008 /  #46
join our Polish and Lemko colleagues there for a weekend foray.

I would join you for this most assuredly. Life does not have to be so complicated.

try inform other atheists about the possibility to leave this organization

Most peolple have too much else to think about . I would think this is not a very high priority.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
23 Sep 2008 /  #47
Most polish traditions have pagan origin really.

and most of them celebrated across Europe and not exactly specific to one country.

I still dont understand the significance of the one where you throw water on people, would anyone care to explain :)

Switezianka

I don't quite understand why someone would go to the lengths of apostasy.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
23 Sep 2008 /  #48
If witnessed in Silesia it may have been brought there by Lemkos in exile. I have heard a Lemko wedding celebration described by a person who has taken part in many of them and this event is on Day 1 of a 3-day celebration. There is a lot of singing involved, and a full day of fun.

"Polter Abend" is a common tradition in Germany...(it even has a german name)

Fascinating. We have the same thing here in Greater Poland. The event takes place at the evening before wedding at the brides house. It's mostly for the guests that won't be attending the wedding. People gather, smash bottles and make a lot of noise. Than they are treated with some vodka, beer or some fine nalewka and food by the hosts and party all night.
Switezianka - | 463  
23 Sep 2008 /  #49
I don't quite understand why someone would go to the lengths of apostasy.

1) to decrease the political power of the church in Poland (which is based on church's constant talking about the statistics)
2) sometimes it's necessary to leave the catholic church when you convert to some other religion
3) because you don't want to be a godfather/godmother or a witness at a wedding and you know the only way to oppose the pressure of your family and village is to be formally unable to perform that function

4) you don't want your family to play you a trick and make you a catholic funeral against your will - if you're an apostate, they can't do it

5) you think catholic church is an organization that is harmful to your society, therefore you don't want to be a member of such organization

6) you hate the fact that you formally belong to some organization and nobody has ever asked you if you wanted to join it

There are many reasons. Anyway, it's just about writing a paper, giving it to your parish priest and visiting your parish from time to time to remind the priests that they have some formality to do in case they 'forgot'
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
23 Sep 2008 /  #50
In Germany making "apostasy" has the advantage of not having to pay "church tax" anymore....so there is an incentive to do the last step (and it is mostly the sole reason).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax

Church tax is a tax imposed on members of some religious congregations in Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Finland, Austria and some parts of Switzerland.

Germany

About 70% of church revenues come from church tax. This is about €8.5 billion (in 2002).

Fascinating. We have the same thing here in Greater Poland. The event takes place at the evening before wedding at the brides house. It's mostly for the guests that won't be attending the wedding. People gather, smash bottles and make a lot of noise. Than they are treated with some vodka, beer or some fine nalewka and food by the hosts and party all night.

YEAH! :)

(I guess it has pagan roots too...)
OP outintheyard 27 | 517  
23 Sep 2008 /  #51
Church tax? DO they not realize this could actually draw people away from the church? I myself would not care to pay such tax. I would rather pay the USA government so it can save the world of all problems.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
23 Sep 2008 /  #52
Church tax? DO they not realize this could actually draw people away from the church?

It does and no, they don't care!
Greed wins out I guess...there are still enough who pay...
Switezianka - | 463  
23 Sep 2008 /  #53
Most polish traditions have pagan origin really.

Yes, as most Christian traditions in fact. My point is that now most of them are associated with religious celebrations.
Pouring water on somebody is a part of the celebration of the Easter. Putting lights on a Christmas tree is a part of the celebration of Christmas. Writing K+M+B on the door has also something to do with some holiday. So, as I don't see any reason why I would celebrate those things, I don't do it unless someone makes me. If it was fun, I'd do it, but I think e.g. pouring water on somebody in early spring is not fun, it's just stupid and dangerous. It would be cool in July, but not during the Easter.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,591  
23 Sep 2008 /  #54
Christian Eastern is the pagan "Ostara".

Ostara is the hypothetical Old High German name for the goddess Eostre, (Goddess of Spring). The names of the modern holidays Easter and Eastertide are thought to be derived from this goddess.

The historians say since the christians were unable to fully destroy the pagan traditions of the country folks they took them, adapted them slightly, gave them a new name and voila....
OP outintheyard 27 | 517  
23 Sep 2008 /  #55
adapted them slightly, gave them a new name and voila....

MAde for less war and made life more appealing.
huttonteks 3 | 6  
23 Sep 2008 /  #57
Reading your discussion of Polish traditions/customs. You all seem to know your traditions. Maybe you could help me out. Around 1907, there was apparently a tradition or celebration of sorts called "green day". I believe a day of freedom or something. I have a grandfather who was to be inducted into the "Franz Joseph" army. He was able to escape induction and leave Poland for the USA because of some traditiion on this day that allowed him to leave without question. Anyone know of this? I believe that it was in the spring, because that is when he left.
OP outintheyard 27 | 517  
23 Sep 2008 /  #58
I heard of it as spring day I hope someone can enlighten us?
Bartolome 2 | 1,085  
23 Sep 2008 /  #59
If witnessed in Silesia it may have been brought there by Lemkos in exile. I have heard a Lemko wedding celebration described by a person who has taken part in many of them and this event is on Day 1 of a 3-day celebration. There is a lot of singing involved, and a full day of fun.

I don't think so. The name suggests it's from the times when Silesia was one of parts of the Reich.
Lukasz K - | 103  
23 Sep 2008 /  #60
Tradition is something that very easily is picked up by people from their rulers, neibourghs etc...
For example Christmas tree that conquered the world in 150 years...

And also most of European traditions have pagan orgins, and becouse pagan religions vere very similar the traditions are similar and saying that "this tradition was invented by Germans, Rusins, Polish etc." is something very uncertain.

Of course there are some traditions which origin can be found. Good "Polish" examples are Easter symbols - hare and egg. Explanation is easy - Easter was pagan spring holiday in the time when first animals are born (hares) and first birds lay their eggs that symbolise new life...

But hares were more German - I don't remember exactly (maby Bratwurst would know it), but some german goddes had hares as her atributes. On the other hand egg was rather a Slavic symbol. In todays Poland both symbols are used but in the west it is more hare (that in wester culture has evolved sometimes into rabbit wich I find very annoying knowing the diffrences between those two animals...) and in the east is is an egg.

For example children from Greather Poland and Silesia get presents "from hare" that are hidden in the garden what I (coming from Warsaw) realised at the University when I met people from Poznan and Upper Silesia...

On the other hand I don't know if the symbol of an egg is present in other countries than Poland...

Lukasz

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