Whats gay life in Poland?

That's the gist of the problem with some people, I'm afraid. Their only excuse is: HEY, I'M NOT THAT BAD, HE IS MUCH WORSE THAN ME! I ONLY KILLED ONE PERSON WHILE HE KILLED 10!

Relativism - that's what is slowly killing the Western nations. Instead of looking at the REAL and traditional values, they compare with others. That's exactly what satan wants humans to do. Sigh...

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It has been very nice to see the people who have taken the time to post their comments on my forum about being gay in Poland. They were polite and considerate and I thank them for that. A big part of finding acceptance in this world we live in is to have meaningful discussions about subjects that are controversial. People will never agree on everything, but we can agree to disagree and perhaps learn something from each other. I found this site quite by accident and hope others will stop by, express their opinion and leave their comments.

Surely you don't believe there is a devil? If there's a devil, then there has to be a Santa, Easter Bunny and a Tooth Fairy.:)

Janek, remember that religion doesn't have to be logic and you can not approach it as mathematics for example:)

Religion is by no means a science. It's a belief one is taught at an early age. If I taught a new born child to bark instead of talking, guess what...he will bark just like a dog!

I totally disagree. There were several SAINTS that had no idea about religion (since their parents were peasants, uneducated people) until they were in their forties or fifties. Religion is something inborn, there's no need to "teach it".

And how did these peasants get the title of Saint? I'm kind of confused here? Being nominated to sainthood and I'm no expert at all, so please (forgive my ignorance), isn't that a posthumous title granted by the living? It's an award of sorts I suppose and that's fine, but its not divine intervention presented by our maker. Is it not basically a 'reward given to worthy humans who have contributed so much to mankind? Forgive me; religion was not a major in school for me. I'm very interested in what others have to say, their knowledge and experiences in life are far greater than mine on this subject.

I don't know if you're in Poland or elsewhere, but I'm sure you have heard of the Canadian hostages that were rescued this past week from Iraq. They all are members of this group (see the link below). One (hostage) James Loney is a member of the Catholic Church, or so they say on their website. Check these 2 sites. I was shocked to see that he was a gay man. It blew me away as I'm sure it did for many around the world. I'm not at all impressed by him or his organization!

cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2006/03/27/1507892-cp.html

This is his group's website (link is below). They seem to have chapters all around the world. Personally, I find these people offensive to the Church. And they do not represent the gays of the world!

directory.ic.org/records/?action=view&page=view&record_id=5207

They not only created a dangerous situation for the military, they embarrassed the hell out of us "normal gays". How dare they go around the world and create problems that cause lives to be lost! Being a gay in the Middle East is a crime that will surely get you killed, what were they thinking? One American was killed and an old guy from the UK was sent home (alive) to his wife.

If you do a search "James Loney" you will find tons of information on him and what he represents.

Perhaps one day (God forbid) he will be a saint as well? :)

I'm not talking about the contemporary saints -- I meant saints in the XVIII-XX (beginning) century.

I have no idea how to answer you my friend, as I said I'm not at all educated in the serious side of the history of the Church. You'll have to excuse my ignorance here, I'am sorry friend!

My point is - more and more well-off people think they are so powerful and happy as it is that they don't need God at all. I feel it's a totally wrong way; one personal tragedy can completely change the man's view on everything - including religion. I don't wish anyone anything bad, but you need to realize that there is a much more meaningful sense of our lives than to have a good job, great partner, and fun...

My dear friend, I still think of my Mom every night when I'm resting in bed. To watch her slowly pass away that morning in the hospital 3 years ago is something that has changed my life forever. And you're absolutely right, there is much more to life than a $500 K Condo and a BMW in the driveway! To lose the person that gave you life is something I would not wish on my worst enemy. Words can't describe the pain and loss one feels after that someone who was your "everything" has left you alone. My life changed that day and my life is not the same. A part of my soul left that day with her and will never return! :)

My condolences....

I still have my mom here on Earth but many times I think about the day when we will have to part. It is something that keeps me thinking about religion and God. And this thinking actually makes me stronger because I believe when I die I will meet her again.

That's why I cannot imagine a person who does not believe in God and that his/her soul will actually never die and will live forever. The pain of losing a close relative for that person would probably be unbearable and could lead to suicide.

The religion and belief gives HOPE; those who do not believe suffer 100X as much in case of a tragedy as those with strong belief.

And one does not have to be someone extraordinary to have "strong belief" - it sometimes takes a few minutes talking to inner self and thinking what would happen to you when your time comes.

I understand your thoughts totally. And thank you very much for understanding my loss. You seem to be a very nice person. Treasure the people you love most, especially your Mom. Should her time be first, you will miss her more than the sun that doesnt rise above us each day! Thanks for your thoughts.

I think younger generation in Poland is tolerant towards gays

...and people are tolerant towards gUys too...:)

Ok, something true about gaylife in Poland (Warsaw) from a point of view of a gay...

Poland is generally not a very tollerant country, public gestures of homosexual love are not welcome... However many times me and my boyfriend were holding our hands on the street and nothing happened - except for strange looks and pointing us :)

Warsaw is much better than other parts of Poland. People are more open, there are plenty of gay clubs/pubs etc. and many gays and lesbians decided to come out of the closet and they don't regret that (as for example me). But everybody should be prepared that sometimes he or she can hear something like "deviant" muttered by a completete idiot behind your back.

And definitely you should avoid young bold guys wearing training suits. There is no tollerance among them for anything they consider "different".

The matter of introducing official partnership for gay couples in Poland is still future... very far future, since the government and majority in our Parliament is ultra-catholic and veeeeery conservative. We'll have to wait at least till the next elections.

I'll write more when I have a little bit more time.

Luke

Gay life in Poland is in a rut. There's a general tendency not to accept things. Gay - bad, Jew - bad, different - bad. Plus, in case of gay life, even the dumb government is now acting against it as is church - which has way too much to say out there, in general.

So my advice. When your in Poland, adding the fact that your gay to the introduction - BAD IDEA.
As someone wrote before.

However, I'm convinced, you'll find your way around.

To the discussion on the subject of science tackling being gay as an illnes - only in Poland I heard such a stupid thing that gay is an illnes.

Someone wrote: Gay are gay and will always be different. What crap is that! I like blonds, my brother like brunettes. We're soooo damn different. I have gay friends. Apart from what kind of a human they sleep with, I don't personally see the difference.

yeah, but it's easy to change the color of hair; it's not possible to become straigt or gay overnight though...

:) I wouldn't dare to expect from someone to change that much. I tried to say that sexual preferences don't make a person THAT different. It's just, you know, what turns one on.

But, whatever someone thinks about homosexuality, however disapproving society may be, whatever tha religious or legal situation in a coubtry is, it doesn't stop it. People rise above that. If someone's gay, they're gay. There are about 15 bars here in Warsaw. Even before 1990 there were bars, boring ones, but they were there. Now, some of them are quite good.

The true outline of gaylife in Poland will be presented soon. Warsaw Gay Pride Parade is coming - on 10th of June 10 to 15 thousand people (not only from Poland - but also from i.e. Germany and the US) are expected to take part in it and manifest their objection against discrimination of all kind.

I'm really interested in the reaction of the authorities and the society. Last year the parade took place without permission of city authorities. Right now it is still not known whether this year the parade will be legal or not. However the Supreme Judicial Court (last week) and Constitutional Tribunal (a few months ago) stated, that there is no reason to forbid people to use their constitutional right of manifesting their ideas, rights or thoughts.

Still the attitude of the society towards gays and lesbians is rather "disapproving". Except for young (or majority of young) and highly educated people, most of Poles say they wouldn't like to have gay neighbour, teacher of their kids, boss or gays manifesting on the streets. What is interesting, most of them consider themselves tolerant...

I think Poland needs a lot of time to become as tolerant as other countries of Western Europe. And nobody can be sure how long this "a lot of time" will be.

I don`t have anything against gays, as most people here. I have higher education - but like most people here I find that such gay prides as well as the whole relativization of gender and values as pure nonsense and unacceptable.

On top of that I don`t like the idea of gays trying impose their way of thinking on us as well as their aggressive attempts to FORCE us to accept something that is pure nonsense: that being gay is not a deviation and that we ALL have to find it wonderfull what they`re doing whereby any criticizm of their often silly behaviour (i.e. demonstrating in a parade that they are gay) is being called by them as "discrimination"

Gays in Poland have equal rights as everybody else - being gay has been legalized here during the early 30s - 50-40 years before the same thing happened in MOST of Western Europe.. and just becaouse we don`t want to give gays privlidges by introducing laws that would make any criticizm of their behaviour into a "hate crime" we are being criticized for "not being tolerant"!

Tolerance is a good thing - but there has to be some common sense - and some limits. We can not and we will not tolerate stupidity and we`re also aren`t going to tolerate that a group of extremists aided by various international-lefties and a contingent of German gays (probably some 90% of the gays who are going to take part in that parade is going to come from Germany cose I absoloutely sure that this gay parade is going to draw such a large attention from Polish gays like the previousone - and that was some 200-300 people)... gays who have anounced that they are going to bring some gay boxers and gay martialarts students onto that parade (!)..

..what kind of reaction is this parade going to couse.. well after what the gay community was doing so far - according to opinion polls the popular support for such parades is dropping dramatically.. after this parade it`s going probably drop even more.

I don`t know why we should treat the German complexes by allowing to demonstrate them how "tolerant" they are just becaouse they`ve killed most of their gays during the war and now they have to prove how "great" they are... ...there are over 15.000. racial-motivated crimes in Germany comited per year..(I`m not going to mention the "WWII issue") In Poland it`s less than a dozen ..and then they are comming here and want to "lecture" us about tolerance - dear Germans - you have absoloutely NO IDEA about tolerance, but before we`re going to "lecture" you about the use of common sense as well as its relation to the idea of tolerance - Look at YOUR country and YOUR problems FIRST and then we can talk about those mentioned issues.

You're not serious saying "most people". Or you don't know anything about Poland.


Do you still claim you have nothing against gays? I'm not sure


This is really amusing. Nobody (apart from the conservative and nationalistic politicians) will say so because it's simply not true

You can like gays - or dislike - it's your opinion and your choice. Hovewer everybody deserve the right to be RESPECTED as humans.

If homosexuals had the same rights as other people, they would forget about organising such parades - because they wouldn't be forced to draw people's attention to themselves.

I also don't like obscenity and demonstrating of fetish, drag queens etc. on such parades. But if you saw last year's parade in Warsaw, you wouldn't say those were gay people manifesting - it looked like a demonstration of people, whose constitutional rights habe been taken... And everything would have been perfect, if not the young nationalists throwing stones, eggs and f*cks towards the crowd.


I live in Germany. And I can say it's much more safe than Poland. Such crimes for sure happen, but 15000 ?!!! Only if you include all the "f*cks" thrown towards foreigners.


You meant a dozen daily. At least. Then I can agree. Otherwise I'd dare to say you don't know Polish reality

I say before if you are polish gay you must come to England.So many gays here.So many gay clubs in London.Many English men are being gay.Do not tell the polish men but tell the english men they say it cool to be gay in england

I`m living my whole life here so I`d say that I know a lot :)


Yes.


I`m absoloutely neutral torwars gays, though if gays (or any other group) shows strong signs of stupidity, impertinence in their behaviour as well as it forbids other people to speak loud their opinion ..as well as attempts to FORCE their way of thinking on others then I`m begining to feel a dislike torwards that group.


In what way gays don`t have equal rights here ? (Beside the fact that gays can not get married and adopt children)


Yes. There might have not been any drag-queens ect. But if such parades would be organized on regular basis then such parades would look exacly like those in Germany. It`s better to stop it before this situation escalates rather than wait untill it`s going to be to late.


You can check out some of your police statistics.


Nope. I mean a dozen per year.

One more thing I forgot to add:


Respect is earned. If you demand respect only becaouse you`re gay or becaouse you present yourself on a parade to demonstrate your sexual-orientation, you won`t get any respect.

That is because in Poland there are no black/asian people.That is ridiculous - in Germany there are 4 million muslims.In Poland? Maybe 1000.Don't try and think that Polish people are different to anyone else.They are no better/worse than anyone.I work with many Polish people and know how racist they can be.

I completely agree. And once again, there are much more cases like that than a dozen per year, believe me. Ask any of the asian or african people in Warsaw, how often they meet acts of violence from young, bold guys wearing training suits...

One time when I was visiting my grandma in poland, a black guy rode by our house. It was weird cause I never saw I black person in Poland, I see them here in America all the time but come on, WOW! Kodak moment right there.

Black people often do work as paramedics here, so it`s not that unusual to see them around elderly people :)

But there are still places in the province where black people would be considered as a "great attraction".

And what would happen, if those "province" people saw two gays holding each other's hand on the street...