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Poverty in Poland

21 Mar 2007 /  #1
I think that with all the trasitions, such as joing the EU, adjusting to the capitalistic system, the poverty of certain groups of people Poland is growing.

I study sociology, which is most of the time depressing since it deals with facts and numbers.
I might offend some Polish people by posting this thread.
Following Szarlotka example I would say: It's your problem.

The results:
- high unemployment
- unefficient labour law
- groving number of foreign investments causing anxiety amongs some Poles
- influx of young Polish workers to EU resulting in luck of certain trades on the Polish labour market (e.g. contruction)
- growing gap between classes (in a former classless society)
- "worn out" Polish health system
- high real estate prices
- alcohol and other substances abuse is skyrocketing
- "unhealhy" interest of some foreign men in dating Polish women
- groving number of Polish women working for prostitution rings in EU
- Catholic Church is stronger and uses the trasition time to re-establish it's influances
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
21 Mar 2007 /  #2
the powerty of certain groups in Poland is growing

the same can be said for most eu countries, no?

"One in six Europeans is living below national poverty thresholds, with children particularly vulnerable, according to the results of an official study."

"In 2004, 16 percent of EU citizens lived under the poverty threshold defined as 60 percent of their country's median income, "a situation likely to hamper their capacity to fully participate in society."

"The rate ranged from 9-10 percent in Sweden and the Czech Republic to 21 percent in Lithuania and Poland. "
OP miranda  
21 Mar 2007 /  #3
I guess it's growing tendency worldwide. Nevertheless, I just wanted to bring this jolly subject to people's attention:)
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
21 Mar 2007 /  #4
I think its an interesting post.. I know there is high unemployment and badly paid jobs in Poland, which is presumably why many migrate to other countries in search of work.. however, this must be leaving some gaps in the labour market in Poland.. I heard that the government was calling for people to go home to fill jobs.. just wondering if anyone knows anything more about this (ie) is it true, if so in what areas of the job market are you lacking employees because of migration and what incentives (if any) are they offering to those who return?
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
21 Mar 2007 /  #5
I guess it's growing tendency worldwide

yeah... although poland does seem pretty high up the european list...

heres something to add to you list

- grwoing reluctance of doing business with poles in poland
OP miranda  
21 Mar 2007 /  #6
Growing reluctance of doing business with Poles.

I used to work for a foreign investment company in Poland and I have seen many foreigners talking to my boss. Results: 1 transaction in 3 years:(

I have the same problem, although I am not doing any bussiness with them. I like to limit my contacts with some of the Polish people (sorry good, realiant, hard working, honest Polish people)in order to keep my sanity, even though I grew up there.
Varsovian 92 | 634  
21 Mar 2007 /  #7
I think transition benefits:
(1) the lucky ones who just happen to be in the right place at the right time
(2) those who could abuse privileges just prior to transition
(3) those who predict real estate trends correctly
(4) the adaptable and the educated.

It's especially tough on those children whose parents reject open-mindedness and education on their behalf.

It's also tough on those parents who want to retain control over their children in a popular climate which cries out in favour of cynical short-termist consumerist hedonism.

The Polish catholic church is facing an undeclared crisis after a period of massive gains in popularity and influence. The fascist start-up pleb organisation of Rydzik shows just how far the cult of consumerism has infected the church. He functions in terms of money and his short-termist message is aimed at the poverty-struck old. Not a good business model. Anecdotal evidence, I'm sure, but the people leaving small town Poland for the cities do not go to church. 50% of children in my parish failed to take first communion, and of those that did most are not seen again.

Education reformers identified serious failings in the system and came up with ways of making them worse! This is a mistake of vital importance in the formation of an underclass of people who should have had the intelligence to succeed in education but - and this affects boys in particular - were not engaged and drawn into schooling through a misguided attempt to educate them through semi-entertainment style learning (edutainment). The gymnasium/liceum division worsens the control schools can exert over potentially wayward boys.

Prostitution - well, that's simply too depressing for words. Skilled manipulators exploiting a poverty of expectation.

Alcohol - well, it's cheaper than ever. I'd get sloshed more often if it weren't for the health implications.

Health service - in the past you expected worse, now you can, if you're lucky, get better. It's a very difficult area because it demands so much money input. And of course you only hear the complainers, my healthcare experiences here have been satisfactory, only failing at times through human error.
OP miranda  
21 Mar 2007 /  #8
Just wanted to comment on alcohol consumption in Poland.

On my return some years ago I notice the wide choice of alcohols when it comes to brands/sizes/ 24 hour open stores all over Poland.

I personally like cheese and I really had to look for a variety all over town, which was not the case with alcohol. It's available 24 hours/7 days a week and cheap.

Why would that be the case???
Sounds like the government doesn't have a problem with promoting drinking culture and it's a nice, easy source of constant revenues.
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
21 Mar 2007 /  #9
I personally like cheese and I really had to look for a variety all over town, which was not the case with alcohol. It's available 24 hours/7 days a week and cheap.

Why would that be the case???

simple - supply and demand... guess there is more demand for booze 24/7 than there is for cheese. Its the same in many suburbs of London.. its illegal, but very easy to buy booze 24/7 if you know where to go.. however, you can also buy cheese, fruit & veg and just about anything else you need.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
21 Mar 2007 /  #10
cigarette marketing is a hell of a lot more agressive in poland than the uk
21 Mar 2007 /  #11
Classless society?

Miranda, are you really Polish?

Poland has always had a society divided into classes: most recently klasa robotnicza (working class), klasa intelignecka (intelligence class more like middle class ie better jobs). people are classed more on which job they do rather than how much money they have, or where they come from ie it is possible to move from one class to the other depending on your job.
OP miranda  
21 Mar 2007 /  #12
I have heard about England alcohol consumption. One of the reasons is probably being availabe 24/7, just like in Poland.

I live in Canada and it's not that available, which I think is a good thing and I am not a prude.

What strikes me in Poland though is the fact that alcohol consumption is hardly controlled by teh government. It's rather incouragded.
21 Mar 2007 /  #13
Following Szarlotka example I would say: It's your problem.

I deny ever saying that:)

Oops - just found that I repeatedly said that:)

I blame capitalism in general. The impacts are horrendous:

McDonalds, Burger King, Russians running soccer clubs, Liverpool FC being owned by a Yank and a Canadian, rubbish food, lack of social cohesion, Gordon Brown, Tony Blair. The list is endless.

Joking aside I think Miranda has succinctly pointed out the imapcts in her original and susequent posts. Others have rightly emphasised that this is a global problem. In the UK it is becoming difficult to see how our young can get on the property owning ladder. The real estate prices are horrendous. Even with the inevitable adjustment that will come in this area it is going to become more difficult. We are, in the wider EU, in a period of adjustment and transition. Read a prediction the other day that by 2050 the population of Poland (and other A8) states will be down 20% and that of the UK up by 15%. It predicted an influx from Asia & Africa into the EU of around 1.3 million people per annum over the period. The times they are a changing. How we collectively deal with the social and economic impacts is down to our governments and to us as individuals. The key to individual survival and prosperity will be education and commitment. IMHO Polish people will find that transition easier than most. They have a can do attitude. I think it is the people from the 'fat' economies' who will find this harder (oh boy that puts me in the firing line).

Evolve or Die:)

Greetings from Estonia (I know I said Lithuania last night but hey, one Baltic state is much the same as another).
sapphire 22 | 1,241  
21 Mar 2007 /  #14
cigarette marketing is a hell of a lot more agressive in poland than the uk

interesting. There seems to be a big crackdown recently on smuggling of cigs from Poland to UK.. other countries too, but Ive seen them searching bags more and the police in London seem to be cracking down on the street sellers..
OP miranda  
21 Mar 2007 /  #15

you are absolutely correct. What I meant by classless was the fact that the transition for one class to another during the communist time was much easier, than e.g. in a well established class structure in some other countries. My mistake.
21 Mar 2007 /  #16
not to worry. Wherever you are, you posts are always welcome.

Why thank you M

I think this has the potential to be one of the most interesting threads. Thanks for starting it. I promise solemnly not to hijack it.
Varsovian 92 | 634  
21 Mar 2007 /  #17
As for cigarettes - advertising is banned in Poland.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
21 Mar 2007 /  #18
my ex is marketing director for the leading brand in poland... what you refer to as advertising might be banned... but marketing most certainly isnt...
Ranj 21 | 948  
21 Mar 2007 /  #19
As for cigarettes - advertising is banned in Poland.

Probably because they used little mauve bears as a part of there marketing campaign!:)
OP miranda  
22 Mar 2007 /  #20
Polish unemployment rate is 20%
22 Mar 2007 /  #22
How many people in the UK live in poverty?

Just under 1 in 4 people in the UK – or nearly 13 million people – live in poverty, according to the latest figures. This includes nearly 1 in 3 children (almost 4 million).

I'm quoting oxfam.
LoneStranger 3 | 382  
22 Mar 2007 /  #23
most eu countries

NO... No No No! .. how much do you know Poland. I dont understand how you see Poland - UK and EU .... we are different places and organisations.

Look... if you study the economy.... you will clearly find the difference.... Poland is even Poorer than Malaysia or Maldives or even Morocco.

We have good cities - true. But basically our big country is poorer in the interior.

On making averages.... you will find a result which is no where near the lions share of the people


your calculation is no match to the actual picture sadly!...

The Rich are too rich! ... take the real Poland - usually the middle class and the below poverty line...and then you will find a picture that throws more light. But then alas, how our government tries to hide a few things.

How would you know? Its not your fault.
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
22 Mar 2007 /  #24
not sure of the context of the quote LS...

... how well do i know poland... how long was that piece of string again...? ive lived and worked there for a number of years over a greater number of years... dunno... where did that string get to...?

one of the main differences seems to be the way poland is looked at... as a brit i am looking at poland as a land of opportunity... for me it has little to do with the supposed poverty in poland... because there are a lot of poles with a lot of money who desperately want to spend it...

IMO poland is a land of opportunity, the entrepreneures' paradise... everywhere i look i see gaps in the market that are crying out to be filled... my concern is that so many poles, young and old alike, dont see this... wooosh... over their heads... they would rather leave their country and make a few fast schekles elsewhere...

i like to believe that poland is a country with a great future... would be nice if this was built by poles rather than outsiders...

whilst im on a rant...

i see opportunities... i share these opportunities with my friends... i offer to finance and guide them... what more do you suggest i do... fuk!!!!
22 Mar 2007 /  #25
20 Apr 2007 /  #26
Look... if you study the economy.... you will clearly find the difference.... Poland is even Poorer than Malaysia or Maldives or even Morocco.

You must be out of your mind man...You really have no idea what your talking about. Poland is 7 to 10 times richer than Morocco. And also richer than Malaysia.

Where do you get your ideas from. If Poland is so poor than why don't you move to Morocco. You quickly want to find your way back to Poland.
witek 1 | 587  
20 Apr 2007 /  #27
Poland is the land of opportunity for smart people willing to take risk.

Two of my family members started businesses 10 years ago and today they are on the verge of becoming millionaries. However the road to success takes sweat, tears, determination, brains and most of all hard work:)
Frank 23 | 1,183  
21 Apr 2007 /  #28
Miranda......its more to do with poverty of thought, opportunity, attitude and lack of risk taking..........

Poland is rich in many important things....mostly family, social and history..........

1980s Ireland.......employment around 18/19%...big national debt.....people leaving every year......40/50/60,000 from a small country...little or no big investments.....

Things will turn around for Poland.......but you need a few good people at the top and self belief in your younger start taking a few risks!!!
22 Apr 2007 /  #29
Poland is much richer than most people imagine.

As for the unemployment rate I suspect it is far lower than the official 14% .
hello 22 | 891  
25 Apr 2007 /  #30
As for the unemployment rate I suspect it is far lower than the official 14% .

I think the official rate is too low (the government wants people to think they are doing a good job and make the unemployment getting lower - and they don't include those who work abroad).

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