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I feel the gay rights movement is constrained Poland


joaska 2 | 12  
23 Mar 2008 /  #1
Although there have been some improvements in gay rights, I feel because the gay rights movement is constrained by the Catholic Church that there is no future for civil unions, adoption, etc. Also, Poland has very limited programs that promote tolerance of homosexuality and spread information about AIDS/prevention. I think if so programs were more active in poland there would be a different attitude towards homosexuality. What do you think poland should do? is treating homosexuals like second class citizens a violation of human rights or should the people be able to live in a country in which their beliefs are reflected?
hello 22 | 891  
24 Mar 2008 /  #2
Gays are different and still want others to think they are no different? They demand too much by that. They are tolerated in Poland but let them don't expect others to look up to them.
EbonyandBathory 5 | 249  
24 Mar 2008 /  #3
They are tolerated in Poland but let them don't expect others to look up to them.

Yeah, wanting respect and being treated with human decency? How uncooth of them.

What do you think poland should do? is treating homosexuals like second class citizens a violation of human rights or should the people be able to live in a country in which their beliefs are reflected?

The problem is not a specific Polish problem, it's a world problem. Gays aren't fully socially accepted nearly all over the world. The situation might be worse in Poland becuase she is a highly Catholic country, therefore the solution starts and ends with the Catholic church and other religions. Once they realise that they can't "love thy neighbor" and "damn gays to hell" at the same time, the problem will begin to solve itself. BUt this is a millennia year old distrust so it's not going to be solved over night.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
24 Mar 2008 /  #4
Oliver Twist is the expert on such matters, he is a forum member
LondonChick 31 | 1,133  
24 Mar 2008 /  #5
I agree that Poland still has a long way to go and that the catholic church does hinder progress, however it is also going to take a long time for homosexuality to be widely accepted.... to prove a point, just wait and see how many homophobic sentiments are posted in this thread...

I see a lot of Polish guys in the gay clubs that I go to here in London... I wonder whether they will settle here in the UK, or whether they will return to Poland a bit more emboldened by their experiences in the UK.
JustysiaS 13 | 2,240  
24 Mar 2008 /  #6
is treating homosexuals like second class citizens a violation of human rights or should the people be able to live in a country in which their beliefs are reflected?

its not easy being gay in Poland (I imagine), but you must understand that its a catholic country and people will have a problem with gays getting married or adopting kids. many people there dont quite understand that its none of their business whom you sleep with, and are certain that all gays have AIDS... The president seems to be very homophobic too (Ive read an article about him using images from a gay wedding in USA to "educate" Polish people just how wrong it is)... i dont see things getting better for gays in Poland anytime soon, it is sad.
LondonChick 31 | 1,133  
24 Mar 2008 /  #7
but you must understand that its a catholic country

True - a very valid point, however Spain is also a catholic country, yet things are much open there, especially in towns like Sitges, which have a thriving scene.
JustysiaS 13 | 2,240  
24 Mar 2008 /  #8
Spain is also a catholic country, yet things are much open there, especially in towns like Sitges, which have a thriving scene.

i suppose that people are more tollerant in bigger Polish cities... i've never been to Spain, or heard about it's gay scene, but if i ever visit i'll ask my man if we can go to Sitges ;). is it like Brighton in UK?? lol
LondonChick 31 | 1,133  
24 Mar 2008 /  #9
Brighton in UK??

Indeedy - lots of fun ;)
Kemaleon 3 | 122  
24 Mar 2008 /  #10
how odd, i just got off the phone to my Sister who has just returned from visiting our Cousin in Czech. My sister is gay, so they went to a gay club. My sister spent the entire night fending off gay GUYS!!!

ok so she dresses like a London Lesbian clubber, but she doesnt look like a man!
still it didnt stop them. If they werent confused before they sure as hell are now!!

Ok so slightly unrelated, but i just wanted to share.
JustysiaS 13 | 2,240  
24 Mar 2008 /  #11
Indeedy - lots of fun ;)

ah cool! i love Brighton :)

My sister spent the entire night fending off gay GUYS!!!

you sure they were gay??? ;)
Kemaleon 3 | 122  
24 Mar 2008 /  #12
they honestly thought she was a man, one guy was so disappointed he decided it didnt matter and persisted anyhow!

she said she only see two women the whole night, and they both looked like overweight bikers!
OP joaska 2 | 12  
25 Mar 2008 /  #13
EbonyandBathory wrote: The problem is not a specific Polish problem, it's a world problem. Gays aren't fully socially accepted nearly all over the world. The situation might be worse in Poland becuase she is a highly Catholic country, therefore the solution starts and ends with the Catholic church and other religions.

JustysiaS wrote: but you must understand that its a catholic country and people will have a problem with gays getting married or adopting kids. many people there dont quite understand that its none of their business whom you sleep with, and are certain that all gays have AIDS

According to Catholics, of which about 95 percent of the population is part of, sex is just a means of reproducing. Catholics do not permit masturbation, contraceptives, premarital sex, in addition to homosexuality. With this perspective in mind, many of the comments I have heard from Polish officials is that homosexuality is unnatural/unproductive.

news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/6596829.stm
iht.com/articles/ap/2007/04/26/europe/EU-GEN-Poland-EU-Gay-Rights.php

When a group of people display a sense of sexual freedom publicly, it is concerning to a conservative society. I think it is important for people to be concerned about homosexuality, AIDs, and so forth, because then people have an initiative to learn more about it and protect themselves rather than shun it. I feel that Poland is forcing people into their ideal lifestyle. The reality is that people are diverse, that is why Poland should begin to teach more people about responsible sexual education. You said that in bigger cities people are more tolerant, this is also true among younger people. This is because people are exposed and educated on the topic.

I think the solution can be found in grassroots campaign that spreads a positive message about this group of people. I know that Poland is a predominately Catholic country but Catholics are more lenient in their beliefs because catholicism does not accomidate many modern views/truths. The Catholic Church wont change its mind but people can.
plk123 8 | 4,149  
25 Mar 2008 /  #14
Although there have been some improvements in gay rights, I feel because the gay rights movement is constrained by the Catholic Church

and this surprises you somehow? hmm

should the people be able to live in a country in which their beliefs are reflected?

there is your solution.
JustysiaS 13 | 2,240  
25 Mar 2008 /  #15
According to Catholics, of which about 95 percent of the population is part of, sex is just a means of reproducing. Catholics do not permit masturbation, contraceptives, premarital sex, in addition to homosexuality.

it doesnt mean that Polish people dont do it, thats just what the church is preaching and hardly anyone from the younger generations (unless they are in Oaza or something) lives according to those rights.

homosexuality is unnatural/unproductive.

in a way, that is true...

When a group of people display a sense of sexual freedom publicly, it is concerning to a conservative society

you dont see straight people making parades about how proud they are to be straight...

The Catholic Church wont change its mind but people can.

older people wont, especially the mohery lol
miranda  
25 Mar 2008 /  #16
changes take time and patience is a virtue:)
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
25 Mar 2008 /  #17
Spain is also a catholic country

Spain was a Catholic country.
Davey 13 | 388  
25 Mar 2008 /  #18
you dont see straight people making parades about how proud they are to be straight...

Probably because heterosexuals are rarely discriminated against
JustysiaS 13 | 2,240  
25 Mar 2008 /  #19
there arent many reasons to discriminate heterosexuals, unless youre gay lol
EbonyandBathory 5 | 249  
25 Mar 2008 /  #20
I think that's the point. A "Straight Pride Parade" would be as ridiculous as a "White History Month" or a "Men's Liberation." The point of "Gay Pride Parades" as far as I can tell is to announce that these people don't feel that their lifestyle is anything to be ashamed of and, most importantly that despite what society says, they are proud of themselves.
Davey 13 | 388  
25 Mar 2008 /  #21
there arent many reasons to discriminate heterosexuals, unless youre gay lol

Well, there have been cases of straight-bashings before thats why i said rarely discriminated against
Kemaleon 3 | 122  
26 Mar 2008 /  #22
"Men's Liberation."

made me chuckle... :)

Does Love not come into this? why does this always come down to sex?
There is a belief that the Soul is gender-less, and any soul therefore has the potential to fall in love with any other soul.
I'm sure homosexuals want children too, i guess we're lucky here in England, specifically London where we have 'chavs' and their amazing powers of rampant underage and unprotected sex mean that the populace is ever-growing. I guess it balances out all these selfish, non child bearing gay people you seem to dislike so much.

Light and Dark, balance, isnt that what its all about?
oliver twist - | 121  
26 Mar 2008 /  #23
Oliver Twist is the expert on such matters, he is a forum member

seanus, I am not an expert on the catholic church:)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 Mar 2008 /  #24
Maybe a good thing Twister
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
26 Mar 2008 /  #26
To answer the thread, it takes a brave person to speak out here. There is an undercurrent of homophobia. I don't find Poles as intolerant as THEY say they are but I wouldn't want to be gay here.
oliver twist - | 121  
26 Mar 2008 /  #27
maybe they are so intolerant because of peer pressure. if say they were in another country alone they would maybe be a bit more free!! I imagine being in a strict catholic community would make it difficult for people to say what they really think. maybe not all, but most would find that difficult to overcome?
OP joaska 2 | 12  
26 Mar 2008 /  #28
oliver twist wrote: if say they were in another country alone they would maybe be a bit more free!!

You make an excellent point, how do polish people react to homosexuals when they are on their own? I was in one of my favorite clubs the other night and it just happen to be gay night, go figure. A group of Polish boys stumbled in, given they were already a bit wasted by the time they came in, but they loved dancing to the techno music it seemed they had a pretty good time. They did not seem to mind the atmosphere at all. If you are left to your own devices, anything can be done.
oliver twist - | 121  
26 Mar 2008 /  #29
how do polish people react to homosexuals when they are on their own?

It's not just Polish people, when I was into the club scene a few years ago I knew a lot of people who were anti gay, but they soon learned to live and let live when they found out that most of the best clubs were gay clubs. they loved to go to Brighton and manchester.. I read on here somewhere tonight about someones sister fending of gay guys in a club.. well most clubs in Brighton are a mix of gays and straight people and they seem to party on together ok.. so chances are they were straight guys. lol if people are left to just be who they are they will learn to live and let live..
OP joaska 2 | 12  
26 Mar 2008 /  #30
So true change comes from an individual's experience, but some people never experience gay culture. Therefore, I say it is important to educate all people about sexual diseases and tolerance, not because that is what gay people are all about but because it will cause people to be less ignorant of homosexuals and other groups of people.

by the way im sure they were straight, they were fancing (thats how you say it in the UK.. right, lol) the ten or so straight girls in there.

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