I say leave te priest alone! Just think about it. No holy inquisition handy, no stakes to throw a match at. Realities simply limit priests's option. He defended the almighty and his hous, he did what what was nesessary for the glory of god, his son and the holy spirit. amen.
And Church is no place for a laugh and a sing song????... that reminds me why i never go. Get real.
Catholic church is not proper place. You are the one to "get real" because you never go but argue.
Like a friend of mine said (while trying to wiggle himself out of jury duty): "I don't need no courts. I see a guy and I know right away if he's guilty or not"
I'm awful :( I see at least what he write in this forum. Does he knows all priests to judge them?
A little advice for all those who dislike Catholic Church so much. You will avoid all "troubles" if you wont attend masses! One could think that this is obvious for everybody but apparently it is not...
This is precisely why the Catholic Church is on a brink of extinction. Some people leave the Church to join other denominations; many decide to live a secular life. Bad polices of the Catholic Church make it impossible for people to come back. Today I am a member of the Episcopalian Church - although when I was getting married we have also considered the Catholic Church, but it was almost impossible to do- they wanted us to attend classes for a year, jump through many other hoops. I have to say that I don't regret the choice I've made.
What happened was that my wife was from the Evangelical background, but did not want to go back. I am from the Catholic background, but the bad polices of the church made it impossible for me to go back. Today we are members of the Episcopalian Family and very happy about it.
- they wanted us to attend classes for a year, jump through many other hoops.
Sounds that you simply chose they easier way. You confuse some things I think. The church is not supposed to try to be "attractive" for the people (like sects), this is not a beauty contest.
Slick, did you even read any of those articles you have posted here? The first one is from 1878. That was 129 years ago... But you're right; there are scandals sometimes in the Church just like anywhere else. The difference is how you deal with them. The Episcopal Church fires its bad preachers. It is just that simple - they get fired, they are out. The Catholic Church on the other hand had a different policy towards its pedophile priests. They, as a matter of a standard policy, just moved the pedophile priests from one diace to another, where the pedophile was free to molest more kids. That's why the Catholic Church in the U.S. is bankrupted today. The point here Slick is not that we don’t have the same problems - but we deal with them better.
did you even read any of those articles you have posted here?
Yes, I did.
The Catholic Church on the other hand had a different policy towards its pedophile priests.
The point here Slick is not that we don’t have the same problems - but we deal with them better.
I am not here to defend or attack the Catholic Church or Episcopal Church. For me it's all the same. The idealistic view of the church you belong to does not surprise me. However, your approach towards faith is somewhat strange as lesser pointed in the post above.
Dice is right, hiding behind the cloak of religion is inexcusable. You can't vigorously shake children, a teacher would likely be dismissed for that. Look at the stink that was kicked up in the case of Louise Woodward (I seem to recall that was her name) who shook the child excessively. The law tread a stern line.
I don't understand why we have to respect other people's beliefs.
Am I missing something?
Imagine someone told you that you had to respect their right to believe that it's ok to physically and mentally torture children, to limit the potential of science, to tell Africans that condoms spread AIDS and to encourage bigotry...well, you probably tell them to foxtrott oscar, wouldn't you? It sounds like a ridiculous set of beliefs.
So why is it any different with.....oh...hang on......
My girlfriend is Catholic but I don't respect her beliefs - I just don't bring it up.
I don't understand why we have to respect other people's beliefs.
Well that's just it, no one asks you to follow them, just respect them. You don't have to believe in what your girlfriend does, just respect that these are beliefs that she has and make her who she is.
Imagine someone told you that you had to respect their right to believe that it's ok to physically and mentally torture children, to limit the potential of science, to tell Africans that condoms spread AIDS and to encourage bigotry...well, you probably tell them to foxtrott oscar, wouldn't you?
Most likely if someone asked me to respect that mentally or physically torturing children was their belief, I would report them to the police. You're talking about two different things.
personally i don't believe in the right to hold a belief, any belief, as it implies that it cannot be challenged. religion operates on the 'that's offensive' basis whereby no one can criticise a belief. that's a curbing of free speech. it also indicates that you are unwilling - either through lack of true conviction or through lack of knowledge - to defend your belief. i've had debates with true believers, people who spend an hour a day studying the bible and the 'good books' of the main religions (in fact i used to live with two such people). not once was 'that's offensive' ever used by them because they see criticism of their religion as an opportunity to further understand and clarify their belief. i have respect for that but i do not respect anyone's right to hold a belief in a bubble.
the fact is that religion just isn't as robust as it used to be - for obvious reasons.
i will not respect someone's right to a belief when their answer to a question is merely 'that's my belief'. that is not an answer it's a cop out and actually says more about their character than anything else.
so, if you hold a belief and you want people to respect your belief then you can only do so by accepting the fact that your belief will be challenged and perhaps, in the process, ridiculed. we should remember that the various religions are nothing more than successful sects. born in a time when our understanding of how things worked was limited. they have survived in part due to their strangle hold on free opinion and free speech.
something someone said is only offensive because of your inability to process it at arm's length. the most bigoted people i have met in life are religious. i'm not offended by what they say, however, i just think they're absurd.
but, if you insist on going along with the rights card then why is my right not to be affected/looked down on by religion any less deserving than their right to not have their beliefs mocked?
they believe i am going to burn in hell for eternity; i believe their belief system is flawed and poisonous....and yet i'm being offensive?!
probably the most important counter to anyone who says you must respect people's beliefs is that religious people do not respect the beliefs of people from other relgions. no can dispute that fact surely. i worked in italy in september and listened to a conversation in which catholics ripped into muslims. you only have to turn on the tv or open a newspaper to see clear evidence of the lack of respect given to other people's beliefs if they run contrary to their religious beliefs.
so, i should respect a christian's belief when they respect no one else's but their own? i don't think so! you only gets rights when you accept your responsibilities to a healthy society. as far as i can make out that's just not something the religious have ever done,
I'm sorry Harry, but I disagree. I agree that the child should be reprimanded for acting out in church. But the person to give whatever punishment is necessary should be the parent.
If I found out that anyone put their hands on my child for whatever reason, I will be seeking that person out to give them 10 times what they gave my child.
Yes kids can be brats, and yes they sometimes need a quick slap on the behind. But if that hand doesn't share my DNA code or my wife's DNA code, there will be trouble.
physical punishment just makes the recepient tougher. As a youth I was phsysical punished at school. Made to do punishment runs in the freezing cold at 7 am. Made to parade for hours on end. Press ups, squat thrusts. Stress postions. And that was the school. Before the general harassment and bullying by other pupils.
I remember being dangled out a fifth story window by two drunk seniors. Or being made to play running man, a process by which the unlucky victims would be forced to sprint down a corridor with 50 boys either side throwing cricket balls, golf balls, hockey balls and sweepinghockey sticks along the floor. Not to mention the sports field where every afternoon we trudged off to managle our contemporaries. In the name of exercise. This was spiced up with rampant theft and forced aquisition of property.
However everyday before the gatesbeing swung open a C of E service was obligatory for all the students, with punishment for those that missed it.
What parents perceive as good for children is not always what it seems and nor are the adults that inhabit the teaching and social positions within schools.
I'm sorry Harry, but I disagree. I agree that the child should be reprimanded for acting out in church. But the person to give whatever punishment is necessary should be the parent.
The bible says that you are wrong. Deuteronomy 21:21 clearly states that the only way to deal with an unruly child who has already been punished by his parents is that "All the men of the town must then stone him to death."
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
I don't think this applies to an unruly 6 year old whose priest lays hands on him.
But we are in agreement however. You quoted the Bible where it states that the parents must reprimand the child.
I totally concur and restate what I said. The parent reprimands the child. And if I ever found out that an outsider laid hands on my child, there will be problems. Nobody messes with my family.
^ Point still remains that when the parents reprimands are not effective, all the men in the city are supposed to pitch in to solve the problem, not just the parents.
Anyway, kid should feel lucky that he won't be becoming one of the 'special' altar boys now he's pissed the priest off!
some parents are woefully incapable of disciplinging themselves, let alone their children, even if they can manage to acknowledge just how much of a little sh!t their child is
A young woman get on a public bus with her 7 year old son. The little brat is not very well behaved. He kicks other passengers, spits at the bus windows and in general is a big time nuisance. Some passengers begin to protest to the mother. In response she says it is her child, she if giving him proper upbringing and will not put the kid in line since she believes in liberal approach to children as to not inflict any stress on them.
At the next stop a teenager, just about to leave the bus, pulls the young mother by her b**bs, by her nose and then slaps her on her a**.
- "My parents also had a liberal approach to my upbringing" - he says, as he leaves the bus.
It seems to me that the catholic church has lost its way. They have misinterpreted the message of Christ and become a church stooped in arcahic tradition and have lost all sense of the Salvation Christ talked about in the Bible.
Jesus said: I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes the the father except THROUGH ME (John 14:6) This means that we do not need a priest to act as a mediator between ourselves and God, we can get on our knees ourselves and pray humbly to him. We do not need a priest to do it for us.
Also, I hate the way that I am told I am not allowed to partake of the mass in Poland because Iam not Catholic. Can someone tell me where Christ ever said this?
I am also pissed off with the falseness I see in the Catholic church. I see children partaking of the mass without actually understanding what they are partaking of, id be surprised if most adults know too.
In UK if you are not Religious, you dont go to church simple
