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IS POLISH PATRIOTISM OBSOLETE?


Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
21 Aug 2009 /  #1
Some Europhiles, globalists and sundry one-worlders claim glorifying one's accidental place of birth is pointless and equate patriotism with nationalism, and that is only a step away from chauvinism.

Those in favour of patriotism call it healthy national pride, a resepct and love for one's native land and national heirtage, as reflected in the well-known Polish motto: Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna (God, Honour, Homeland/Fatherland).

What is your take on this? How does what you know of Polish patriotism differ from that encountered in your own country?
mvefa 5 | 591  
21 Aug 2009 /  #2
Those in favour of patriotism call it healthy national pride, a resepct and love for one's native land and national heirtage, as reflected in the well-known Polish motto: Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna (God, Honour, Homeland/Fatherland).

This is too old fashion, this cancer has been erradicated from western-europe, therefore we live in peace now...a lesson to learn.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
21 Aug 2009 /  #3
NO is not obsolete. But nationalism must have limits.
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
21 Aug 2009 /  #4
Except for the Basques, Corsicans, IRA...
mvefa 5 | 591  
21 Aug 2009 /  #5
See what patriotism leads to?
southern 75 | 7,096  
21 Aug 2009 /  #6
therefore we live in peace now...

You don't live in peace.Tuci still slaughter Hutu.
Matowy - | 295  
21 Aug 2009 /  #7
glorifying one's accidental place of birth is pointless and equate patriotism with nationalism, and that is only a step away from chauvinism.

That's my opinion of it. I see nationalists as some of the dumbest that society has to offer, and a burden on the overall intelligence of mankind.
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
21 Aug 2009 /  #8
nationalists

Why is Patriotism being linked with Nationalism here anyway?
OP Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448  
21 Aug 2009 /  #9
Those who disparagingly claim patriotism is obsolete, inadvisable or even dangerous often link it to nationalism, chauvnism, intolerance, ethnic cleansing, the lot!
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,813  
21 Aug 2009 /  #10
I'm very much patriotic (a German though) but I'm all for peace....
mvefa 5 | 591  
21 Aug 2009 /  #11
I mean is great to like your country,,but not take it to other extremes..it always ends up badly when patriotism grows and grows, many epxeriences have we lived in the past.

Lets not make the same mistakes
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,813  
21 Aug 2009 /  #12
Lets not make the same mistakes

Agreed

The Problem in Europe was always the nationalismus between neighbours...now if we could develop a patriotismus as Europeans, that would be a good thing I think.

Germany for example has so many regions which people identify with strongly but still feel patriotic as Germans too.

Now when a Pole, an English, a Spanish, a German etc. could be a proud European and accept the other as valuable treasures of regional diversity nonetheless I think we could avoid the old mistakes!

Then european patriotism could become a blessing.
It would urge people to take better care of our Europe...
Ksysia 25 | 430  
21 Aug 2009 /  #13
I had an experience that clarified patriotism to me this way: When living as a student in the USA, I told the family that 'in Poland we make the best bread in the world', and they said to this: 'it's very good that you said that'.

I think that they were able to understand that one appreciates one's own country and people, because they appreciate their own, too.
So, when I read on Steffen Moeller's website that he thinks the bread from Wuppertal is the best, I was happy. That is a thing worthy of appreciation, bread.

BUt I don;t think that loving your own home is the same as aggressiveness. The dark side of nationalism is national chauvinism, which says 'we are better, they are worse'. It is the chauvinism that nobody wants, but patriotism is simply appreciation.
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,813  
21 Aug 2009 /  #14
The dark side of nationalism is national chauvinism, which says 'we are better, they are worse'.

Well...isn't that a contradiction with:

I told the family that 'in Poland we make the best bread in the world'

That implies just that, Poles makes the best bread, better as everybody else, who are worse.
And it isn't even true as for that you would have to test every other bread in the world...

See? Not so easy...

In some ears (your compatriots) you will sound proud and patriotic, in other ears (not Poles) it will always sound chauvinistic....and that goes for all countries and peoples.

Praising the achievements (if true or not) of your own country will always sound nationalistic and chauvinistic to foreign people...
So...many people tend to mix it up!

It's some kind of a law..
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
21 Aug 2009 /  #15
BUt I don;t think that loving your own home is the same as aggressiveness. The dark side of nationalism is national chauvinism, which says 'we are better, they are worse'. It is the chauvinism that nobody wants, but patriotism is simply appreciation.

Great post. 5 Stars. (out of 5)
TheOther 5 | 3,831  
21 Aug 2009 /  #16
Polonius3

Of course you can be proud of your country ... quietly and with respect for others.
ShelleyS 14 | 2,893  
21 Aug 2009 /  #17
NO is not obsolete. But nationalism must have limits.

What limits? And who makes the rules about the limits?

Being able to wave your own countries flag in your own country is a god given right, one which has been taken away from the British, aparently it can cause offence to miniorities! Do you see how they can implement "limits"
Lodz_The_Boat 32 | 1,535  
21 Aug 2009 /  #18
one which has been taken away from the British, aparently it can cause offence to miniorities!

Seems like ordinary brits have compassion :)
Ironside 48 | 9,844  
21 Aug 2009 /  #19
This is too old fashion, this cancer has been erradicated from western-europe, therefore we live in peace now...a lesson to learn.

maybe in Holland were many residents are Asian or African origin - my guess that for them is difficult to identify with Holland.

Being able to wave your own countries flag in your own country is a god given right, one which has been taken away from the British, aparently it can cause offence to miniorities! Do you see how they can implement "limits"

What are you about?
what flag is forbidden in Britain?
Matowy - | 295  
21 Aug 2009 /  #20
Being able to wave your own countries flag in your own country is a god given right, one which has been taken away from the British, aparently it can cause offence to miniorities! Do you see how they can implement "limits"

BS. You must be confusing "Nobody want to do something as dumb as waving a flag" with "Nobody is allowed to do something as dumb as waving a flag". Flags are nauseatingly waved at football matches and such. Are you living in the same UK as everyone else?
szkotja2007 27 | 1,500  
21 Aug 2009 /  #21
what flag is forbidden in Britain?

The one in my profile
Saltire banned
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8114884.stm
Bratwurst Boy 5 | 9,813  
21 Aug 2009 /  #22
The one in my profile
Saltire banned

From your link:

The National Library of Scotland told a staff member to remove Saltires from his desk as they may intimidate non-Scottish workers, an MSP has learned.

It would be a funny joke if it wouldn't be so pathetically real today...
Ironside 48 | 9,844  
21 Aug 2009 /  #23
The one in my profile

Some idiots! ?
polishcanuck 7 | 462  
21 Aug 2009 /  #24
See what patriotism leads to?

They just want their own country;) Why not set them free?
Ksysia 25 | 430  
24 Aug 2009 /  #25
Well...isn't that a contradiction with:

Ksysia:
I told the family that 'in Poland we make the best bread in the world'

I don't think so. This sentence regards something that we do, not what we 'are'. 'Italians make the best pizza' also states a preference of mine, not a belief in their superiority.
mvefa 5 | 591  
24 Aug 2009 /  #26
maybe in Holland were many residents are Asian or African origin - my guess that for them is difficult to identify with Holland.

We have 93% of dutch residents, so we are a big mayority...nobody really cares for nationalism or patriotism...we are happy as we live...

They just want their own country;) Why not set them free?

Now, that depends, i mean, do we want a europe filled with countries of 10km2?
Ksysia 25 | 430  
24 Aug 2009 /  #27
i mean, do we want a europe filled with countries of 10km2?

I would love to have one for myself. Ksawerynaland. Ksysiowo. I would invade a neighboring kingdom and impose my ideaology, even if they didn't want it!
mvefa 5 | 591  
24 Aug 2009 /  #28
haha lame!
DomPolski 7 | 33  
1 Dec 2009 /  #29
Those Europhiles, globalists and sundry one-worlders claim are fucks.

Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna!!!
Lekhite - | 6  
1 Dec 2009 /  #30
The Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Ottoman's all multicultural.

It worked for them, all peaceful empires, still around today to show multiculturalism at work. Right? I'm sure there are historical examples for any argument.

Trying to preserve your culture, your family does not have to lead to nationalism. Nationalism seems to only grow when the people feel there is an external threat. Sometimes it's justified, sometimes it's not.

The argument that glorifying one's accidental place of birth is the same as the argument that I should feel no loyalty to my accidental biological family. I can feel empathy for the neighbor or foreigner, but it does not mean that I give up my responsibility for my family, that I help the neighbor at the expense of my family. This is especially so when the neighbor has values that are opposed to mine, values that are a threat to my kin. My family will always come first.

It's noble to help others, but when those others become a negative influence, or disruptive to the safety of the team, family, tribe, nation, than my family will always come first, not the outsider.

I treat my guests well and give them shelter and safety, but the guest must live by my rules. When I am a guest, I must observe and respect the rules and traditions of my host. If I want to join their household, then I must fit in and adjust, not the other way around.

Do we really all want to be multicultural? Is New Orleans another good example of what happens when disaster strikes a people who have no common values and no sense of loyalty?

People will be people, and anyone who thinks that multicultarism will solve the world's problems is mistaken.

Patriotism is not obsolete, it's natural for humans and animals. It's the loyalty for one's tribe or pack, it's the need to preserve your family. It does not equate to hate for other tribes, but it does mean that if another tribe threatens mine, I will protect it. When all ties are cut to you land, culture and values, will you be able to say the same of your neighbour?

Of course, this is just an opinion.

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