IS POLISH PATRIOTISM OBSOLETE?

Some Europhiles, globalists and sundry one-worlders claim glorifying one's accidental place of birth is pointless and equate patriotism with nationalism, and that is only a step away from chauvinism.

Those in favour of patriotism call it healthy national pride, a resepct and love for one's native land and national heirtage, as reflected in the well-known Polish motto: Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna (God, Honour, Homeland/Fatherland).

What is your take on this? How does what you know of Polish patriotism differ from that encountered in your own country?

This is too old fashion, this cancer has been erradicated from western-europe, therefore we live in peace now...a lesson to learn.

NO is not obsolete. But nationalism must have limits.

Except for the Basques, Corsicans, IRA...

See what patriotism leads to?

You don't live in peace.Tuci still slaughter Hutu.

That's my opinion of it. I see nationalists as some of the dumbest that society has to offer, and a burden on the overall intelligence of mankind.

Why is Patriotism being linked with Nationalism here anyway?

Those who disparagingly claim patriotism is obsolete, inadvisable or even dangerous often link it to nationalism, chauvnism, intolerance, ethnic cleansing, the lot!

I'm very much patriotic (a German though) but I'm all for peace....

I mean is great to like your country,,but not take it to other extremes..it always ends up badly when patriotism grows and grows, many epxeriences have we lived in the past.

Lets not make the same mistakes

Agreed

The Problem in Europe was always the nationalismus between neighbours...now if we could develop a patriotismus as Europeans, that would be a good thing I think.

Germany for example has so many regions which people identify with strongly but still feel patriotic as Germans too.

Now when a Pole, an English, a Spanish, a German etc. could be a proud European and accept the other as valuable treasures of regional diversity nonetheless I think we could avoid the old mistakes!

Then european patriotism could become a blessing.
It would urge people to take better care of our Europe...

I had an experience that clarified patriotism to me this way: When living as a student in the USA, I told the family that 'in Poland we make the best bread in the world', and they said to this: 'it's very good that you said that'.

I think that they were able to understand that one appreciates one's own country and people, because they appreciate their own, too.
So, when I read on Steffen Moeller's website that he thinks the bread from Wuppertal is the best, I was happy. That is a thing worthy of appreciation, bread.

BUt I don;t think that loving your own home is the same as aggressiveness. The dark side of nationalism is national chauvinism, which says 'we are better, they are worse'. It is the chauvinism that nobody wants, but patriotism is simply appreciation.

Well...isn't that a contradiction with:


That implies just that, Poles makes the best bread, better as everybody else, who are worse.
And it isn't even true as for that you would have to test every other bread in the world...

See? Not so easy...

In some ears (your compatriots) you will sound proud and patriotic, in other ears (not Poles) it will always sound chauvinistic....and that goes for all countries and peoples.

Praising the achievements (if true or not) of your own country will always sound nationalistic and chauvinistic to foreign people...
So...many people tend to mix it up!

It's some kind of a law..

Great post. 5 Stars. (out of 5)

Polonius3

Of course you can be proud of your country ... quietly and with respect for others.

What limits? And who makes the rules about the limits?

Being able to wave your own countries flag in your own country is a god given right, one which has been taken away from the British, aparently it can cause offence to miniorities! Do you see how they can implement "limits"

Seems like ordinary brits have compassion :)

maybe in Holland were many residents are Asian or African origin - my guess that for them is difficult to identify with Holland.


What are you about?
what flag is forbidden in Britain?

BS. You must be confusing "Nobody want to do something as dumb as waving a flag" with "Nobody is allowed to do something as dumb as waving a flag". Flags are nauseatingly waved at football matches and such. Are you living in the same UK as everyone else?

The one in my profile
Saltire banned
news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8114884.stm

From your link:


It would be a funny joke if it wouldn't be so pathetically real today...

Some idiots! ?

They just want their own country;) Why not set them free?

I don't think so. This sentence regards something that we do, not what we 'are'. 'Italians make the best pizza' also states a preference of mine, not a belief in their superiority.

We have 93% of dutch residents, so we are a big mayority...nobody really cares for nationalism or patriotism...we are happy as we live...


Now, that depends, i mean, do we want a europe filled with countries of 10km2?

I would love to have one for myself. Ksawerynaland. Ksysiowo. I would invade a neighboring kingdom and impose my ideaology, even if they didn't want it!

haha lame!

Those Europhiles, globalists and sundry one-worlders claim are fucks.

Bóg, Honor, Ojczyzna!!!

The Assyrians, Persians, Romans, Ottoman's all multicultural.

It worked for them, all peaceful empires, still around today to show multiculturalism at work. Right? I'm sure there are historical examples for any argument.

Trying to preserve your culture, your family does not have to lead to nationalism. Nationalism seems to only grow when the people feel there is an external threat. Sometimes it's justified, sometimes it's not.

The argument that glorifying one's accidental place of birth is the same as the argument that I should feel no loyalty to my accidental biological family. I can feel empathy for the neighbor or foreigner, but it does not mean that I give up my responsibility for my family, that I help the neighbor at the expense of my family. This is especially so when the neighbor has values that are opposed to mine, values that are a threat to my kin. My family will always come first.

It's noble to help others, but when those others become a negative influence, or disruptive to the safety of the team, family, tribe, nation, than my family will always come first, not the outsider.

I treat my guests well and give them shelter and safety, but the guest must live by my rules. When I am a guest, I must observe and respect the rules and traditions of my host. If I want to join their household, then I must fit in and adjust, not the other way around.

Do we really all want to be multicultural? Is New Orleans another good example of what happens when disaster strikes a people who have no common values and no sense of loyalty?

People will be people, and anyone who thinks that multicultarism will solve the world's problems is mistaken.

Patriotism is not obsolete, it's natural for humans and animals. It's the loyalty for one's tribe or pack, it's the need to preserve your family. It does not equate to hate for other tribes, but it does mean that if another tribe threatens mine, I will protect it. When all ties are cut to you land, culture and values, will you be able to say the same of your neighbour?

Of course, this is just an opinion.