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ANYONE KNOW THE COST OF A MEDICAL OPERATION IN POLSKA..?


wildrover 98 | 4,451  
5 Dec 2009 /  #1
Due to my long and loopy history of doing stupid stuff , such as crashing motorcycles at high speed , it looks as though i am going to require an operation on my arm to move a few nerves about , and grind a bit of bone off..nice...!

Just supposing i have to pay for this operation here in Polska , can anyone give me a bit of a clue as to how much it might cost...?

I need to know if its going to be cheaper to get it done here , fly over to the UK , or get a workshop manual and have a bash at it myself... thanks...
Agata710 1 | 2  
8 Dec 2009 /  #2
It will almost certainly be cheaper to have it done in Poland. I would ask around, friends, colleagues, etc. to see if they know a decent private clinic where you can get it done.

From what I can see, it seems like without health insurance a private clinic is the way to go.

If you do have UK health insurance, though, you may want to call them and see if you're covered. What you should have done really is gotten the EHIC (ec.europa.eu/social/main.jsp?catId=559).
OP wildrover 98 | 4,451  
8 Dec 2009 /  #3
should have done really is gotten the EHIC

I have that , but i understand its only cover for emergency treatment..like after an accident...
frd 7 | 1,399  
8 Dec 2009 /  #4
wildrover

do you have a polish insurance?
OP wildrover 98 | 4,451  
8 Dec 2009 /  #5
unfortunatly not...
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,163  
8 Dec 2009 /  #6
Aren't you registered here as a farmer or something... ?
Lir  
8 Dec 2009 /  #7
fly over to the UK

I think you may find it you haven't been resident in the UK for a while then you aren't entitled to NHS treatment until you have been back in the UK for a period of time before you can be eligible again ? Not sure of the time scales but I know Insurance Companies have set up schemes where you can buy Insurance as an ex pat if you are visiting the UK and need medical treatment., before you become eligible again! So if you have the operation privately in the UK it will be much more expensive than Poland I imagine.

I don't know enough about the subject, best to google it or see if someone else knows more about it?
Harry  
8 Dec 2009 /  #8
If you've got coverage for after an accident, why not have one?
OP wildrover 98 | 4,451  
9 Dec 2009 /  #9
I thought about that , but there is nothing that requres emergency treatment , no arms hanging off or whatever...i suspect they would simply declare me fit to travel back to the UK for further treatment...

i am pretty sure there is no way round it really...just going to have to pay up...No i am not registered here as a farmer...just as a resident...
Harry  
9 Dec 2009 /  #10
i am pretty sure there is no way round it really...just going to have to pay up...No i am not registered here as a farmer...just as a resident...

How about getting a job here (or at least officially getting a job here) so you can pay ZUS for while and then get it done here on the state system? I'm sure it won't be a problem to find somebody to officially employ you as long as you make sure they don't lose out on the ZUS payments.

Alternatively, why not go round a few local schools and offer to teach for them part time for legal minimum wage (pro-rated for part-time). You're certainly qualified to help run conversation classes (the Polish Ministry of Education considers First Certificate as sufficient qualification to be an assistant teacher at a state school!) and they'd be getting you at a very good rate too. If you work for them part time, you'll get free ZUS (which would work out to be more valuable than your salary!).
Wroclaw Boy  
9 Dec 2009 /  #11
If i were you id see a doctor preferbly the one that will do the operation on a private basis, bring a bottle of whiskey and tell him about the EHIC. He can easily OK that and the whole procedure can be taken care of courtesy of the UK tax payer/NHS.

Strictly speaking yes, you need UK residence and it is for emergency procedures, but hey whos asking questions? Just look at every other bugger scamming the UK for every single penny/zloty going, youre a British citizen for christs sake. Id imagine you have a fair few years of UK Tax paying history.

I would imagine based on the info youve provided here you'll be looking at a bill for a few thousand Zlots, you'll be in bed thinking man im in pain but that shot is going to cost X amount perhaps ill just take the pain a bit longer.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
9 Dec 2009 /  #12
I don't know if you are entitled but there is a scheme called ZUS ZUA. That's the card I have through the NFZ. I'm led to believe that the coverage is fairly extensive. I was 17 when I got my operation for ostreocondroma in Scotland. I don't think any payment was involved.
Lir  
11 Dec 2009 /  #13
telegraph.co.uk/health/expathealth/4191301/Health-tourism-crackdown-hits-expats.html

"The upshot is that many expats who thought they had the 'free' service to fall back on, may have to look elsewhere."

"Even those who lived in Britain for many years - and who will have to pay inheritance tax on their worldwide assets - and paid all their National Insurance contributions risk exclusion.

"Rules expected to be in place by April will require non-residents living in the EU to show they spend at least six months a year in the country to get free care. On paper this is a concession because, at present, British expats who seek free NHS care may need to show they spend nine months a year in the country. In practice, however, this restriction is widely disregarded. Mr Hutton emphasised recently that the new system will be rigorously applied."

excerpts from the article written quite some time ago, am sure there is more information about it if you use a search engine.

:)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718  
11 Dec 2009 /  #14
Lir - they haven't bothered to enforce it. I'm sure the expat issue is actually the reason why - there would be massive protests from the blue rinse brigade in Spain if they actually did try to enforce it, and the Daily Mail vote is absolutely crucial to both parties right now.

Wildrover - give me a week or so, I might be able to sort you out with ZUS coverage if all else fails.. :)
Lir  
11 Dec 2009 /  #15
Lir - they haven't bothered to enforce it.

I think you will find that they have? I know of two people who are expats and couldn't even get a GP appointment without paying for it. Unless you are somehow managing to still pay tax and NI here and have a UK home address where you are on the electoral roll , then you should be alright. Otherwise , try it and see what happens?

Basically you take your chance. You could end up being referred by your GP but when they eventually find out that you should be charged < it will eventually catch up with you, then the NHS will charge you like a private patient> the only alternative is to come back to the UK and become a resident again, then you will be entitled to nhs care once more.

I know one instance where an ex pat now has a bill from 3 years ago for £35,000 lol......

There is an Insurance now for Ex Pats to take out if they are returning to UK for holiday, Business or returning to live here. BUt it won't cover pre existing conditions. Test it out then ?
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718  
12 Dec 2009 /  #16
I think you will find that they have? I know of two people who are expats and couldn't even get a GP appointment without paying for it. Unless you are somehow managing to still pay tax and NI here and have a UK home address where you are on the electoral roll , then you should be alright. Otherwise , try it and see what happens?

What on earth were they doing? They have started to enforce the law that EU citizens must present the EHIC card in obtain to obtain treatment on the same basis as a UK national, but given that there's no national database of entitlement of British citizens, GP surgeries aren't even asking for proof - because - really - how can someone prove their residence in the UK when there's no 'zameldowanie' or equal?

Of course, if they gave their address as somewhere abroad, of course they're going to be asked to pay. But that would be stupid, wouldn't it?

Basically you take your chance. You could end up being referred by your GP but when they eventually find out that you should be charged < it will eventually catch up with you, then the NHS will charge you like a private patient> the only alternative is to come back to the UK and become a resident again, then you will be entitled to nhs care once more.

The problem is that the UK has no way of checking the actual residence of people. How would they 'find out' if no-one is actually checking payslips and so on, unless someone is daft enough to declare that they aren't resident in the UK any more?

Anyone can declare "oh yes, I'm living in the UK again" - remeber, there's no concept of 'health insurance' in the UK unlike in most EU countries, so they can either accept your word or not treat you. The outrage from the Daily Mail among others about not treating British citizens would soon ensure that people would be treated by virtue of being British.
Lir  
12 Dec 2009 /  #17
GP surgeries aren't even asking for proof

When you are referred to hospital now, one of the questions on the form asks if you have been out of the UK for a certain length of time. That's for any patient. Things have changed.

How would they 'find out' if no-one is actually checking payslips

NI number that's all that is required. No payslips needed :)

Try it. See what happens? Best way to answer your comments that you can get away with it lol.

:)
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718  
12 Dec 2009 /  #18
/Healthcareabroad/Pages/Livingabroad

Yes. And? Someone who wants treatment is hardly going to tell the truth, are they?

When you are referred to hospital now, one of the questions on the form asks if you have been out of the UK for a certain length of time. That's for any patient. Things have changed.

And you think that the vast majority of expats, many of whom paid a considerable amount into the UK system - are really going to tell the truth? The vast majority simply won't do it - whether it's right or ethical is neither here nor there, the point is that there are no checks conducted.

NI number that's all that is required. No payslips needed :)

What does an NI number tell you, bearing in mind that there's no concept of 'health insurance' and someone can quite easily be resident in the UK and yet be totally off-radar and still entitled to NHS care?
Lir  
12 Dec 2009 /  #19
the point is that there are no checks conducted.

The point is they are being checked. I had recent experience of this and I am not an ex pat.

You would be surprised at the detailed information you are now asked for when you attend hospital even if you have been with your GP for a long time.

You may get away with seeing a GP in the short term, but for anything other than an emergency in hospital it is a different story.

Anyways, I'm no authority on it at all as I mentioned in my first post on this thread, so try it and see and lets hear if your comments are borne out with trying to get hospital treatment as an ex pat?

I put a link in the previous post <re nhs info> I think you may be basing your assumptions on how things used to be in the UK not how things actually are in the UK at this moment in time?

Good Luck to any expat who has been out of the country for a while, if they think they will get NHS care , other than for emergencies . But bear in mind some of the stuff written by the NHS re even getting that now?

:)
Wroclaw Boy  
12 Dec 2009 /  #20
Good Luck to any expat who has been out of the country for a while, if they think they will get NHS care , other than for emergencies .

I know of three cases all within six months. No problems.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
12 Dec 2009 /  #21
WR's chances of getting an op straight away without referal is almost zero. LIR is correct when she stated that they ask for information, GPs are now being asked to charge patients that are not residents for consultantions.

By the way Delph, we have a little thing called a medical number in this country, every patient gets one when they register at their GP, so there are ways of checking if someone doesnt have a right to treatment.

nhs.uk/chq/Pages/887.aspx?CategoryID=68&SubCategoryID=162

Interesting note article from an expat forum expatnetwork.com/?ID=45
Wroclaw Boy  
12 Dec 2009 /  #22
WR's chances of getting an op straight away without referal is almost zero.

That reminds me, of course he wont be able to get treatment ZUS EHIC or otherwise till the hospitals gain some more funds. Many Polish hospitals at the moment are only taking on life threatening cases through lack of funds. Theres around a two month waiting list for cancer screening.
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
12 Dec 2009 /  #23
My mum had to to go private a while back because the wait was 2 months to see a specialist! So you see, even perm residents who are fully paid up dont have the luxury of getting seen straight away...

Okay, I found this which might be of interest to WR

You've been working abroad for no longer than 5 years, but have lived legally in the UK for ten continuous years at some point.

avert.org/freenhs.htm
OP wildrover 98 | 4,451  
12 Dec 2009 /  #24
Thats a great website , looks like i can get free treatment if i go back to the UK , but at the moment i am thinking of having it done in Polska... If i went back to the UK i could be several weeks getting the appointments etc , and i don,t want to be away from my farm for too long... With the cost of flitting back and forth , it might well be cheaper to get it it done in Polska...
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718  
12 Dec 2009 /  #25
By the way Delph, we have a little thing called a medical number in this country, every patient gets one when they register at their GP, so there are ways of checking if someone doesnt have a right to treatment.

But we all have these numbers from pretty much day 1, don't we? They're certainly no proof of residency.

LIR is correct when she stated that they ask for information, GPs are now being asked to charge patients that are not residents for consultantions.

But who in their right mind would declare themselves non-resident to a GP, especially given the "computer says no" reputation of GP receptionists? It's far less painless just to give them an address in the UK.

As I said - there exists no record of 'registration' in the UK and it's perfectly possible to go completely off-grid to the point where even the government don't know where you are. How can the NHS differentiate between someone who has gone 'underground' and someone who moved abroad, particularly as there's no systematic record kept of entries and exits from the UK? The point is that they can't.

National Insurance contributions certainly mean nothing - because you're still entitled to NHS care as they aren't 'health insurance'.

Okay, I found this which might be of interest to WR

Hang on a second. If that website is right, then there's a very good possibility that the NHS has been charging people wrongly.
Lir  
12 Dec 2009 /  #26
shelteroffshore.com/index.php/health/more/living-abroad-med ical-insurance-nhs-treatment-10272/

Excerpts from article above <well worth a read>

"From this one can ascertain that anyone who has been non-resident in the UK for a year or more loses their right to automatic free treatment on the NHS. They will however still be treated, but they are liable for charges for their treatment. This is in line with the case of the expatriate Briton referred to in the first paragraph of this article. She had been living in Turkey for 5 years and had returned to the UK for essential treatment for liver and heart problems - she received the treatment but was charged for it. Many feel that this is an unfair situation as the woman in question, and her husband, had worked all their lives in the UK and had made National Insurance contributions during that period of time. However, fair or unfair, the ruling stands - once you become permanently non-resident in the UK you are no longer entitled to free treatment under the NHS. This loss of entitlement is understood to come into effect 12 months after you leave."
Amathyst 19 | 2,702  
12 Dec 2009 /  #27
As I said - there exists no record of 'registration' in the UK and it's perfectly possible to go completely off-grid to the point where even the government don't know where you are. How can the NHS differentiate between someone who has gone 'underground' and someone who moved abroad, particularly as there's no systematic record kept of entries and exits from the UK? The point is that they can't.

If someone is living abroad they are generally not paying NI or registered with a GP or have a perm address in the UK. As for not knowing who is entering and leaving, you really think the government dont know? Dont worry when the ID cards becomes compulsary, the UK will have exact records of who is entitled and who isnt ;0) Roll on that day!

Hang on a second. If that website is right, then there's a very good possibility that the NHS has been charging people wrongly.

Who knows, who cares, health tourism should be stamped out, its costs British tax payers, i.e. me millions a year.

People should have medical treatment in the country they are living, why is always Britain that gets milked for everything!
delphiandomine 83 | 17,718  
12 Dec 2009 /  #28
If someone is living abroad they are generally not paying NI or registered with a GP or have a perm address in the UK.

GP's don't unregister people very quickly - in fact, I went over 4 years without seeing a GP and was still registered on their books. In fact, they didn't even ask about me in that time - and they were still perfectly happy to give me an appointment when I needed one.

As I said - you can not pay NI or be registered with a GP and still be perfectly happily living in the UK. There is no effective way to prove whether or not a British citizen is entitled to use the NHS. It's not like Poland.

As for not knowing who is entering and leaving, you really think the government dont know? Dont worry when the ID cards becomes compulsary, the UK will have exact records of who is entitled and who isnt ;0) Roll on that day!

Yes, I think they don't know. For a start, there's quite a large unguarded border with the Republic of Ireland in which no controls whatever are used. The Irish authorities certainly don't share information with the British!

As for the comments about ID cards - not withstanding the fact that there are huge civil liberty issues, the Scottish Government has already categorically said that they will NOT be using them for anything government-related - which includes public health care, among lots of others. There's next to no chance of Labour winning a majority in the next election - and the Tories and Lib Dems are against ID cards. The system is very, very likely to be scrapped, not least because the next government is going to have to cut back public services dramatically.

The NHS ultimately works on an honesty system - and if someone has paid a significant amount in the UK system and had little in return, what motivation is there for honesty?

Lir - the UK has no concept of permanent residence of a person, except for tax purposes - which is incredibly complex and subject to so many rules that it's impossible to give blanket advice. Yes, in theory, people are no longer entitled - but there is no way of checking eligibility conclusively.

What do you honestly think the NHS would do with someone who turned up at a doctor, who said that they had been homeless for a while and who was clearly a Brit? They'd treat him, of course. He might be asked to declare that he was in the UK - but this is entirely up to his/her own honesty and nothing else.

I think the vast majority of British citizens aren't too bothered if their fellow citizens use the NHS anyway, even if they're not entitled to in theory.

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