grrrr... internet issues (or customer service issues) with TP SA

I have been trying so hard to keep from complaining about Poland (save for stupid traffic laws, which I can't hold my tongue about) but now I'm having a moment.

I cannot improve my internet connection (make it faster) with TP because of the contract and if I want to change in the next ALMOST TWO YEARS when my contract is finished, I have to pay 240zl a month for the new internet and to pay the old internet fees too. There is no hope (I was told) of changing the contract to a higher speed or anything until the contract is finished and there is not flat fee for canceling.

So, how do I walk away from TP or is this one of those you-will-never-escape situations??

If you move from your current residence where the TP service is provided (sell the place, or sign a new lease contract somewhere else) then the service is voided without any financial penalty.

If you are from an EU state and the contract you signed is not in your own native language or you were not given a translation in your own language, the contract is not valid.

That's interesting (and if true could save me a bit of hassle at the moment). It would be great if you could provide a link about this.

EU Website, Consumer affairs/unfair contracts.

I have used this many times, to cancel mobile phone contract, cable TV etc.

Why do you think you have to have a sworn translator when you sign anything at the notary's office?. The utilities companies in Poland are not going to print new contracts in English, German, Dutch etc just for the sake of the few thousand that live here. Much easier to rely on the foriegners ignorance. How can you sign a legal contract if you cannot read it?

I'd love to see an authoritative link for this as well - my understanding of Polish law is that a contract is legal in whatever language, provided both parties agree to it. I've found a reference to timeshare contracts being in the native language, but nothing otherwise.

A concrete link would indeed be good. Not for any internet forum point-scoring, but because of a potentially serious matter that's going on at the moment. It could save me a lot of future money and trouble.

Instead of shelling out a fortune in legal fees to prove that a contract for something was out-of-date it would be so much easier if the contract wasn't valid in the first place.

Is not the same as EU law.

I will give you an example of Polish law.

I had a building constructed. I used two seperate building companies, one for the main structure and roof and the other for the finishes. During construction it was noticed that the "headroom" at the top of the stairs was a bit inadequate, the architect met the builder on site and decided to put a small "dormer" plus a small window into the roof, this to increase the headroom and also to allow more light into the stairwell. All was agreed and the architect made a note in the "building book" as to the minor change.

The second builder arrives on site and completes all the finishes to a very satisfactory standard.
The local building control attends the site to "sign off" the building and "legalise" it.
On inspection they notice the small dormer and window (not above existing roof height) and refuse to sign off the building as this additional work is not in the project, they also fine me 3000PLN.

I contact the architect who goes to see the building control and she is unable to convince them that this minor ammendment does not need permission.

The obvious choice for me is to get the architect to re-do the drawing and apply for retrospective planning permission which takes about 2 months. The architect does the drawing and insists on being paid again for this work. I explain that there is a fine to pay and I will hold her responsible to pay this.

On taking legal advice from a lawyer friend who actually teaches law, it seems that I cannot sue the architect. According to Polish law, I have to sue the last contractor on site., the one who did a perfect job for me and had nothing to do with the construction of the roof. Total cost of delays and fines, around 50,000 PLN, and, yet again, nobody is responsible.

As this money is coming out of my pocket, it must be my fault.

This is Poland.

Occasionally they will write and inform you of contractual changes, perhaps small modifications, which is essentially a breach on their side, thats your window of opportunity right there.

i hope you do live in warsaw or a large city as many rural areas will not have the infrastructure to increase your speed. Youll sign a contract and be told you can have it but once the day comes to upgrade youll lose it altogether and most probably be off line for weeks.

TP are really stuck between a hard place and a rock, i think many Polish companies require super tight contracts to combat the schemers and they are a plenty over here.

I wanted to challenge you on this earlier, but unfortunately I had to deal with other things.
How exactly can your business be a relocation firm but understand feck all about the system?
You take alot of money from those who put their trust in you, yet u say u can deal with people moving to Poznan or Krakow, but forget that these two cities are totally different and that the ways to go about business are totally different too.

I was told by a lawyer that Polish law insists that all contracts should be in Polish. I've asked others and they've backed it up - hence why I'd like to see something that can definitively prove otherwise. Apparently there is a provision somewhere that means a contract can be made in any other language provided both parties agree, but I've never see any evidence of this (and the people I've asked disagreed).

Of course, it's Poland, so you can never be sure - but I think it's safe advising people that contracts should be drawn up in Polish, not least because it avoids hassle with translation (just look at the differences in interpretation between the Irish and English language versions of the Irish constitution!).


Of course - this is why everything needs to be checked and double checked and why I never rely on one person to provide an authortative statement. It's also why I'm so curious about this contract issue - if I can find definitive proof that in Polish law, contracts have to be made available in the native Community language, then I'll take it away and find out what the deal is.


You have to remeber that the EU doesn't make laws - it issues directives. How the individual member states interpret them is up to them - as long as they achieve the end result, the EU couldn't care less. The best example is with consumer protection and guarantees/warranties. The EU demands 2 years warranty - the UK has 6. The EU couldn't care less how many years it is, as long as it's 2 years or more. They have simply told member states that they must offer a 2 year warranty - which the UK does, and goes further.

delphiandomine

COUNCIL DIRECTIVE 93/13/EEC of 5 April 1993 on unfair terms in consumer contracts
THE COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN COMMUNITIES,
Having regard to the Treaty establishing the European Economic Community, and in particular Article 100 A thereof,
Whereas, generally speaking, consumers do not know the rules of law which, in Member States other than their own, govern contracts for the sale of goods or services; whereas this lack of awareness may deter them from direct transactions for the purchase of goods or services in another Member State;

Whereas contracts should be drafted in plain, intelligible language, the consumer should actually be given an opportunity to examine all the terms and, if in doubt, the interpretation most favorable to the consumer should prevail;

2. A term shall always be regarded as not individually negotiated where it has been drafted in advance and the consumer has therefore not been able to influence the substance of the term, particularly in the context of a pre-formulated standard contract.

b) contractual terms must be drafted plainly, clearly and
unambiguously, so that they are understandable to the
average consumer applying the normal diligence of a ‘bonus pater familias’; if terms do not meet these requirements, they must be considered null and void.

To be intelligible, you have to be able to read it.

Cheers Avalon, I'm going to get someone to advise me further on this.

Can't see how it's a get out clause, but hey...

delphiandomine

Its worked for me. Problem is, I live in a small town and the word has gotten around, now they will not let me sign anything, my partner has to do it.