The Dative Case

Just out of curiosity, does Michal exhibit the same lack of "laziness" in English and make sure to use "thee" and "thou"?

Billpawl, thou hast raised a very worthwhile point. But to whom? Michal himself?


I don't know, but I hear a Slovakian ku quite a lot. But I am learning neither Russian nor Slovakian.

-u
-owi

When it is applied to a man's name, which is used? I have a book that states that the dative is more often used with people's names than with other nouns, but then it doesn't actually give any examples of how to use the dative with names.

Crude tool that is google, I tried it anyway.

Jurku - a small number of random results
Jurkowi - a much larger number of results, some of which looked like they were definitely in a dative context.

-owi it is then, unless anyone can give me any exceptions or corrections.

Eurola - mam ku temu powody (and such);
ku zdumieniu, ku zaskoczeniu, ku przerażeniu, ku rozpaczy, ku przestrodze
mają się ku sobie

g woli scislości - szczerze mówiąc nie jestem pewien pisowni tego zwrotu - jednakże genetycznie to jest k(u) woli

these are examples of ku usage in rathern modern Polish - yes they are quite literary, or newspaperish but have hardly fallen from use

ku always implies dative in Polish (irrelevant if there is motion involved or not)

do always implies genetive, the same case with od

Merged: Nouns in celownik (dativ)

for the next lesson we have to find how to construct nouns in celownik (dativ)
I have found some minimal information but the complete rule set
on : +u or for person : +owi
ono = o -> u
ona : a -> e or ka ->ce
would there be somewhere a complete list/overview of these rules
Any site that you could recommend
Thanks for all help/update
Best Regards, Zbyszek Przytula

Merged:Which Case..'OWAĆ' verbs?

I have a list of 'OWAĆ' verbs which I must place in sentences.

Example KUPOWAĆ.
Chcę kupować biała koszula
(I want to buy a white shirt)
I suspect it would be:
Chcę kupować białą koszulę (accusative)

If anyone could help me understand which cases are used for basic sentences I would be eternally grateful.

Chcę kupić białą koszulę

kupować is intention

Na wiosnę będę kupować nowe auto.
We wrzesniu będę malować mieszkanie.

I think that you should write Chcę kupić białą koszulę ;]

Chcę kupować = I want to be buying
Chcę kupić =I want to buy

It will be the accusative case because the noun (what you want to buy, what you want to do etc.) is always the indirect object of the sentence. It's not because it ends in 'OWAĆ' or something like that.

The indirect object of a sentence will usually be in accusative case. Some exceptions are if the sentence is negated with 'nie', then it will be the genitive case. And some verbs govern a specific case. For example szukać governs the genitive case, so the noun will be in the genitive case.

Yes you are right but I think you mean "direct object" not "indirect object":

direct object - accusative
indirect object - usually dative.

Sorry, of course. Thanks.

"Szukać governs the genitive case"

Can you expand on this.
The idea of certain verbs having a specific case governance.

the logic here is quite elusive Paul (if there is any :) )

you simply need to know (memorize) which verbs demand what cases of objects (nouns, adjectives, participles)
you have to remember that some verbs can take two kinds of objects at the same time - direct and indirect and these are different in case then

it is not only verbs that demand certain noun case(or whatever that is subject to declination) but also prepositions

At the moment, Gumishu, I am using the oversimplified method of:
Verb + się = Instru/biernik
Negated by 'nie' or negative emotion 'bać się' = Gen/dopeł

Most other = Acc/Narz

Any other rules I should try to use????

well actually you know more than I do - need to take time considering it Paul

and yes it is often that verbs that have a notion of lack or as you stated negative emotion - need the genetive case

That some verbs always requires a specific case. For example szukać, słuchać and uczyć się always requires genitive for the direct object (including its adjective).

- Szukam dobrego hotelu (gen).
- Teraz uczę się historii (gen).

There is nothing that indicates that these verbs govern the genitive case. One just have to learn them by heart. But these are very common verbs, so it's quite important to know it.

But it's not difficult to use them. Just turn the direct object into genitive. You don't need to think of any special rules or constructions, because there are no.

The prevailing dative ending in the masculine gender seems to be -owi for every noun, regardeless if it is a person or not. The -u ending has survived only in words most often used, for example: bratu, ojcu, księdzu, chłopcu, kotu, psu. Some people might still say the dative koniu, but the majority of them will say: koniowi; the same with osłu/osiołowi. I think some may have already started saying: kotowi, bratowi ...

osiołowi is wrong, the correct form is osłowi


kotowi, bratowi - these sound really bad - of course it can happen by mistake (by analogy to the words with the -owi ending, which is more common in celownik), but if someone uses these forms on a regular basis, it hurts the ears of the listener :)

wow! i would say 'osiołowi', ...maybe because the word 'osiołKowi' :)
that's stange for me :) (and im native :P)

Anyway, osłu is the regular form when talking about an animal, osłowi refers to people (when you say osioł about someone stubborn or lazy, stupid etc.).

Dzień dobry. Dawaj osłu marchewę.

Hello. Daj osłu marchewkę :)

there is a difference between Daj and Dawaj.
Daj is simply "give"
Dawaj is "keep giving"

osłowi is certainly incorrect in referrence to an animal.
it is, though, correct in case of a "donkey" - a lazy person.
such forms like "bratowi" are completely incorrect
and I don't even know how You figured them up :)

cheers

indeed, the correct form is osłowi.

I also learn Polish and I compiled here everything I could find about nouns in celownik.

Masculine nouns
============

"-owi" except the following:

Bóg => Bogu
brat => bratu
chłop => chłopu
chłopiec => chłopcu
diabeł => diabłu
kot => kotu
ksiądz => księdzu
kwiat => kwiatu
lew => lwu
ojciec => ojcu
pan => panu
pies => psu
świat => światu
wół => wołu

Neuter nouns
==========

"-u" except names in "-um" (muzeum, centrum...) which remain in "-um".

Feminine nouns
===========

-b,f,m,n,p,s,w,z- => -ie
-t- => -cie
-d- => -dzie
-r- => -rze
-ł- => -le
-k- => -ce
-g- => -dze
-ch- => -sze

-c,dz,sz,rz,ż,cz- => -y

-l,j- => -i
-nia => -ni
-ość => -ości

Plural
====

"-om" but there are some irregularities:

dziecko => dzieciom
imię => imionom
zwierzę => zwierzętom
-ość => -ościom

książe => księciu

Panu Bogu świeczkę, a diabłu ogarek.

Ziemowit
książe

Should it not be ksiażę

Yes, you are right, WiHar.
M. książę
D. księcia
C. księciu
B. księcia
N. księciem
M. księciu
W. książę

(plural)
M. książęta
D. książąt
C. książętom
B. książąt (?)
N. książętami
M. książętach
W. książęta

(I hope I didn't make any mistakes)

Merged: -u ending in dative of masc. sing. nouns

The few masc. nouns, usually the oldest and most basic ones in meaning, that have -u in dative singular are: ojciec, brat, Bóg, pies, diabeł and czart. Know of any others?

What about kot? One sometimes hears both kotu and kotowi.