UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


They'll fit in fine... along with the Brits, the South Africans, the Indians, the Chinese, and apparently now lots of Burmese. Nothing like variety... :-)


Unfortunately while there are a lot, there isn't enough... From my own casual observations here in London, most people have 90% their own race, 10% (or less) from others. Considering the ethnic makeup in London, that means an awful lot are sticking to their own kind.


One of the things I do find interesting about the Daily Mail's website, is many complaining are immigrants themselves.. Often writing 'Stop Immigration' Joe Bloggs Ex-Pat. Somehow I find that hypocritical. For instance last year 53,000 Brits moved to New Zealand; 7,000 Kiwis moved to the UK. I understand that the UK has a finite amount of space, however from my own experience Poles generally come to the UK, do their best (mostly) to learn English, work hard, earn money and either settle or leave. Some other ethnic groups come here, don't bother to learn English, claim refugee status or some other category, and get benefits and council house. Simple question; which immigrant do you choose - the hard working one or the lazy bum? Now here's the second question, which immigrant suffers the media bashing? No, not the obvious one, but instead the hard working immigrant. Why? Because he's white. If you bash the lazy bum, the PC brigade are going to call you racist.

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


I think it was I was trying to start a conversation with strangers... and as for English, it was their accent that gave it away when they were ordering at the bar.


It is a two way street, and from my end, its as wide as the M4... At the other end it often does feel like a cul de sac/dead end. Its a shame as I think the UK would be a happier place if there could be more cross-cultural friendships. There will always be (unfortunately) immigrants that won't want to immerse themselves in British culture, or who are isolated from day to day life... Being forced to learn English and demonstrate a certain competence would help break down barriers.


NZ has a relatively high level of immigration given its small population size; near enough to 2 in 5 NZ residents are immigrants, and in Auckland - the largest city - that increases to 1 in 3. The largest Polynesian city in the world is in Auckland, with a population of 230,000... Several years ago NZ had to pass a special law relating to pensions so Niueans could receive their NZ pension in Niue, as there were more Niueans in NZ than there were in Niue. So immigrants aren't exotic there either... Also I come from a family of immigrants myself.

That said, currently the Polish population stands at just 2,000; however this may change as we recently began a working holiday visa scheme with Poland.

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]

my father's one request when I went travelling was not to talk to strangers on public transport... It lasted two days. Still, if I didn't talk to strangers, wouldn't have met the toyboy

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]

It was my own pathetic attempt at tongue-in-cheek... Sorry :-)

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


Thats ok - I understood a long time ago that not everyone wants to be my friend :) I'm sure we'll both travel through life happily enough without each other...


If nothing else, I do get a certain sense of amusement by being exceedingly friendly to shop assistants - they get scared when strangers smile and thank them ;-)

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


Being terribly honest, and as awful as it sounds, I gave up trying to make British friends a while back... It just gets on my wick when the media bangs on about intergrating! I've made plenty of friends from other nationalities, including Poles of course... and figure its the Brits missing out ;-)

UK, Ireland / How long before a newly arrived Pole can buy something on credit ? [24]


They do sting you... I've had a clean driving licence for 15 years, and even though I had proof of this from back home, and had a document from my home insurance company showing ten years no claims (the total length I had been with the same company), I still got screwed - even though it was Norwich here and back home! Converting to the UK licence didn't help...

As a suggestion, he could try joining a car share club if he only wants it for occasional use? I'm with Zip Car which is brilliant, as I live in London, and don't really need to drive often.

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


It is hard though when people talk about intergrating, and then any attempt you make is rebuffed. How are immigrants supposed to become part of British society, if they have no social contact with it outside of work? Educating by example would be good... Even when we try at the pub (a very British institution, as well as many other cultures), girls look at us funny (as though we're lesbians, to be honest), and the blokes all think its their unlucky/lucky night.


That program is scary; I happened to watch 2 or 3 episodes when I first arrived (while I was still holidaying), and was in shock. It was like a truck load of Jerry Springer guests had arrived, and been taught British accents. I honestly thought the chav thing was a media stir up - not a reality

UK, Ireland / How long before a newly arrived Pole can buy something on credit ? [24]

Generally you need six months employment and a steady history before anyone will give you a loan or credit card. My suggestion is that he finds a house and stays there (e.g. not move flats every six weeks), get on the electoral roll with the local council, and make sure his pay is direct credited into a bank account on a regular basis, and always keep it in credit (no unauthorised overdrafts). After 5/6 months, his bank should be feeling a little warm and fuzzy towards him, and may consider a loan, depending on the credit crunch.

Otherwise, as Mr H has said, he's going to end up with APR of 40%, and that's deadly expensive.

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


I think thats part of the problem. I'm white, and English speaking, so you would think I've got a head start on Poles. I've been here four years, and although I have many friends of many nationalities, I can honestly say I've only got three British friends. I think part of it is that you do make most of your friends when you are younger (school, early twenties) so perhaps they're not interested in making new friends, but on the other hand, it does make it difficult to get to know any British people.

Love / Don't Polish men fall for British women? [57]

Kissing a smoker is possibly the best advertisement for not taking it up... One of my first kisses as a teenager was with a smoker, and never, ever, again will I date a smoker. Have to admit, it also discouraged me from taking it up

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


Its possibly irrelevant, but I give free English language assistance in my own time.. partly as a contribution to the UK, but partly because I know its difficult to go somewhere without speaking the language. My own family includes immigrants so.. I admit they're mostly to Polish people, but thats because Poland sent me a lovely gift in the form of my man.

I can understand the 'free versus investment' theory, but ultimately they should pay due to other tax pressures. If I want to learn another computer skill, I have to either teach myself or go on a course. If a group of ten got together, I'm sure they could organise their own course quite easily.

UK, Ireland / I'm a South African from the UK. Do I need a visa to go to Poland? [13]


At the risk of surprising you, just because you're not an EU citizen, doesn't mean you can't travel freely in Europe. I'm not an EU citizen, but I can travel almost anywhere in Europe without any issues. Actually I think Romania is the only problem for me.

However Saffas do suffer greatly because of their former political issues, and yes, you will need a visa. The only hint I can give her is send along a travel insurance policy for 12mths annual insurance, and you might strike it lucky if someone gives you a long Schengen visa; SA housemate did this, and got a 9mth visa.

As for your work permit, it doesn't help you with travelling in Europe. It only helps you with your employment in the UK. You still have to abide by the arrangements for South Africans in Europe, which is mainly Schengen visas.

Sorry to deliver such a depressing reply.

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


New Zealand... as the boyfriend says, the end of the earth. However, given the heavy level of immigration in NZ, comparable to the UK in some ways.


Its ok, now that he knows I'm non-British, I'll still be on his hit list.


The First Past the Post system is flawed... however we have a double system in NZ, and I'm not necesarily sure that its brought more balance to government, although we have passed some interesting legislation in the last few years.

Travel / Krakow going down the toilet! [184]


Have to say when I was in Krakow last year, there were many places around the Old Town and the Square with signs saying 'No British Stag Parties'. Its a shame, because while I was there, I met a group of lovely Scottish blokes looking very lost as nowhere would let them in. Soon as they had a girl with them, we were welcomed, and they behaved themselves all night, even walking me home to my apartment near the Square. They knew I had a boyfriend, so weren't going to get lucky. Maybe it was an age thing - almost all were in their mid/late twenties, and were married with kids. The stag was the last of the group to take the plunge.

That said, I also met another group of stags who were abusive and rude on a Saturday afternoon, in the Square, and were scaring off the other trade with their antics. I stupidly had a go at them, telling them their mothers would be ashamed. One more sober guy actually agreed, and took them back to their hostel (where I suspect more pathetic behaviour continued).

Its a mixture of age, attitude, manners and upbringing.


No, its ROAR - right of access reserved. And there are places in the UK were groups of men are also denied entry too...


Maybe if thats what they were doing it would be fine. But when you're being loud and abusive, swearing, usually while making pathetic and disgusting graphic attempts to pick up girls that just want to be left in peace, thats when you get locals upset. In any country.


I believe it could be called either preventative or evasive action... Don't let them in, then trouble can't start. Admittedly a flawed theory because you can't guarantee the behaviour of the other customers, but when your nationality has gained a reputation for certain behaviour - not just in Poland but many other countries - you can only blame your fellow countrymen. That, and some of your media companies. I lost track of the 'Britains Biggest Boozers Abroad' type programs I watched back home... and I have to admit to most extents, they are an exageration. However, I have also noticed that often when I am travelling through Europe, people are suspicious until I say, 'No I'm not British'.. and then they all seem to have a terrible story to tell me about British and drinking. Much along the lines of Germans and beach towels.

Its a shame because 1% of Brits having a good time become awful drunks, and spoilt it for the rest of you.


Fair enough. But could they all try and do it without upsetting or offending anyone else? 99% of Brits achieve - why should the other 1% be allowed to muddy the British reputation?


Actually if we just established that wherever you are, home or abroad, no matter what your nationality, you can have a good time, but show respect and consideration to all, we'd be on to a winning formula.

Somehow I'm not holding out much hope.


I'm neither Polish or British, but I do feel shame and the need to apologise for some of the almighty stupid things my fellow countrymen do. And a certain amount of pride whenever we do something brilliant...

Love / Don't Polish men fall for British women? [57]


They are... have a look at Gumtree London, and there are plenty of ads wanting to meet Polish girls. The Asian guys for the passports, and the Antipodean guys because they think Eastern European girls are gorgeous.

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


See that I don't understand... If the Human Rights and Illegals Lobbies are that worried about these people, let them support the bludgers, not anyone else.


Despite the best efforts of fake tan. I remain white. But if it helps, half of my family are immigrants to my own country, and about a third are mixed race. However my country doesn't allow you to claim benefits until you're made a satisfactory contribution - unless you're from selected countries, much like the EU system.

However I will also point out that the largest group of EU claimants of state assistance is the Portugese.

UK, Ireland / Integrating Polish people into the British society [150]


I think that is the biggest problem in the UK; the number of immigrants who come here, wrongly or rightly, and sit on benefits. Ok there are some from within the EU who do claim, and due to EU laws, they can, so I'm going to exclude them from my theory. So the remaining group should not be allowed to claim a benefit until they have made a minimum contribution to the UK (I'm guessing a percentage), and have a minimum no-claim period of around 5 - 7 years. The same documentary showed the number of state assitance claims by ethnic group, and it was something like 45% for Somalians, closely followed by most other Asian ethnic groups.

I'm a non EU immigrant (cue the abuse), but one of the things I was made fully aware of was 'No recourse to public funds'; fair enough. If I want to be here, I have to support myself through work. If I can't support myself, bugger off home.

If you removed foreigners claiming assistance (from outside the EU), then you would remove about 800,000 people off the benefits list. Firstly you'd save around - oh God someone help me out on the figures as I dont know the rates of State Assistance (as a non-claimant) - a year.

Right.. next step. These newly liberalised folk are going to have two options; get off their backsides and get a job. Ok, good start. Alternatively if they won't work, they'll either starve to death (no necessarily a bad thing if they're going to cost the British tax payer a million quid in healthcare, housing, benefits etc in their lifetime), or they'll sod off home to their own country. If they do that, waiting lists will go down for healthcare and housing, there will be a smaller population (British people very happy!), and hell the government will have the savings from benefit bill. I'd like to hope they'll spend it on the usual priority things like healthcare, housing, education, and helping those less fortunate, but you and I both know they're going to use it to prop up another failing bank or on their expenses.

Its probably a good thing that a) I'm only here for five years and b) I'll never be allowed to run for government. Then again, as an immigrant, the British public would be unlikely to vote for me anyway...

Love / Are you in a Polish-nonPolish relationship? [150]

I'm in a Polish / Kiwi relationship (myself being the Kiwi)... Hopefully with the NZ / Polish working holiday visa system beginning in September, there will be more Polish /Kiwi relationships in the future.

And my man is very polite and well mannered, kind, sweet, respectful, and I'm very lucky to know him

Travel / Who do you use to make calls to Poland? [33]

Generally international calls are carried via the internet, whether you are using Skype or a standard telephone, so at peak times calls may be bad quality because more people are trying to share the connection. That said, when the quality is crap, it does annoy the bejesus out of you.

Charges all depend on whether you're a quick talker or a gossiper...

The billing methods are all roughly the same; per minute billing or fixed fee. You can do the premium rate numbers, phone cards (either by physical purchase or virtual card text message), Skype, or other VOIP product.

International sims can be cost effective, but if you also make a lot of UK calls, it can either work out expensive or fiddly if you have to keep swapping sims around. The per minute thing is usually ok, but if you don't keep an eye on your watch, you can get a nasty shock when the bill arrives the following month. You should be able to call Poland landlines for around 1p per minute, no matter what the method.

There's a phonecard called Pound Card by Telco Global (red with a gold pound card on the front), which gives unlimited talk time for 10p per call to a Polish landline. E.g. 1 pound = 10 calls. Try your corner shop, or email them to see where the cards are sold. If you are a gossiper, then this is going to the best bet - talk for an hour, and its less than .2 of a penny

UK, Ireland / An Englishman's View on Polish flocking to the UK [53]

The English are immigrating to Australia, New Zealand and Spain, in that order... which is probably why my childhood holiday town is now nicknamed 'Little England'. Still so long as they get a job and work hard like the Poles, it doesn't worry me.

Although some English are struggling to meet New Zealand's entry requirements :)

dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=494616&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

Life / How much do you HATE POLISH PEOPLE and POLAND [1260]

My problem with the slant on anti-immigration is that it is primarily directed against the Poles and the other A8 countries. To me its relatively simple; would I want an immigrant that comes in, and gets a job, working hard, and is likely to return home, or do I want one that comes in, immediately claims for a benefit, usually suffering from poor health, and spends the next 60 years draining the system, having never done an honest days work in his life? The first description is most often a description of an EU immigrant. The second is not.

Life / How much do you HATE POLISH PEOPLE and POLAND [1260]

My contribution towards New Zealand's relationship with all the other nationalities... I seem to be doing particularly well with furthering New Zealand's relationship with Poland

;-)

Life / How much do you HATE POLISH PEOPLE and POLAND [1260]


And the English nights have English flyers...


Ahh I wouldn't worry about my complexion - I'm still getting ID'd by bouncers and I'm hitting 30 shortly. Also I'm lucky if I have three drinks a week - I don't need alcohol to have a good time.


I know plenty of English people.. sometimes I'm the only foreigner in the group, sometimes they're the only English person in the group - I'm an equal opportunity friend.


Eleven Australian bars in three years isn't bad to watch the rugby... Understandably there aren't many English pubs willing to open at 6am on a Saturday morning so I can watch a NZ / SA international rugby match.

But just to reassure you, last night we were in an English bar, the night before I had dinner in a Polish restaurant, on the weekend I had Italian for dinner, followed by a Kiwi pavlova for dessert, all cooked by my three English ex-housemates. I also managed to squeeze in celebrating Diwali, and last week also celebrated Bonfire Night.

Don't worry I'm happy to be multicultural... :-)


And just to reassure you further, I've just done a quick search through my mobile phone; 248 contacts, and about sixty are English, 25 Irish, 11 Scottish and two Welsh. Looks like I need to go to Wales to rebalance the odds a little. If it helps, only nine are Kiwis (living in the UK).

Life / How much do you HATE POLISH PEOPLE and POLAND [1260]


The point was that just because its Polish themed, doesn't mean non Poles can't attend.

As for Walkabout bars, I can only comment on the Walkabouts I've been to over the past three years (Covent Garden, Wimbledon, Islington, Durham, Temple, Putney, Shep Bush, Shaftsbury Ave, Nottingham, Edinburgh and Wigan), and there were Australian staff in all, plus in several there were also Kiwi and South African staff.


And the point again is, just because they're English themed bars, doesn't mean that non-English people can't go through the door.


I get out about 4 to 5 nights out of seven most weeks, and usually the guest lists include at least one English person, often more. But thank you for your concern for my social life :-)


Its just a shame most of them let themselves be drowned out by the ractist minority.

Life / How much do you HATE POLISH PEOPLE and POLAND [1260]


Integration is very important to remove the sense of isolation and fear, but this has been happening for many years in the UK prior to the arrival of the Poles. Leed and Birmingham for instance are known for their Asian communities.

I'm definitely not saying that its right, but it has been going on for decades. Surely there should be an examination of why that occurs? Fear on non-acceptance? Racism? Contempt?


Its not a characteristic specific to the Poles; the term 'Expat community' was not coined by the Poles, and expat communities can be found in cities through out the world. Even temporary expat communities can be established quite quickly through the use of theme bars (the so called 'Irish Embassy' in Cracow being an example).

UK, Ireland / Polish Nationals residing in the UK WANTED!!! [11]

Hey John, just a thought but if you've not found anyone for your documentary, you could try the Guest Services staff at Chiswick Business Park; come out of the Gunnersbury Tube, and cross the road. Immediately there is a series of about 9-14 modern buildings set around a park including a man made river. The guest services staff all wear grey trousers and bright yellow tops, and by memory a large number of them are Polish (I believe at one stage the employers were providing English lessons as part of the employment perks). Several I spoke to while working there posessed degrees from Polish universities, but were working as cleaners etc while building their language skills.

enjoy-work.com/html/progress.html

Life / How much do you HATE POLISH PEOPLE and POLAND [1260]


I'm going to have to say it... Given the apparent level of your intelligence, I suspect that most of the immigrants as well as the British nationals here pay more in 'tax money' than you actually earn. Employers generally expect a level of intelligence and competence before paying wages, and to be honest, I doubt you could demonstrate any.

Thankfully most native Britons do not suffer from the same idiocy you do. Great Britain no longer exists as you believe it to be. Get your head out of the sand, and wake up to reality. Thank God you are generally not representative of Britons.

Life / How much do you HATE POLISH PEOPLE and POLAND [1260]


Did you ever think Loony that perhaps native people in other countries, such as the Native American Indians and the Maori, felt the same when faced with British immigration disguised as 'expansion of the British Empire'? Immigration, whether or not you seek it, is a recognised activity throughout history. The British empire has dwindled, and is not the great beast that it once was. However, there are still many great British people who act with dignity, understanding and acceptance. Perhaps you could learn something from your fellow Brits and open your eyes to see that many immigrants do actually make a significant and worthwhile contribution to British society, despite what media manipulations you prefer to memorise?