Language / czym... in the transport context [24]

Cheers again, Michał!

......add, one of the most frustrating: the city one loves to hate (more the latter than the former...... no other city makes such demands upon the visitor that it be loved.) Personally, I prefer London.

No, do siego roku!!

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

English is orthographically and phonetically the hardest and probably least 'logical' language to learn, if I compare it to Polish or German, even French and Russian. Although I haven't seriously learned an Asian or non-Western language (save a lame attempt to teach myself Korean, aided by a former English student!), I'd have to say that English, particularly American, has about the most haphazard spelling vs. pronunciation correlation of any language I'm presently aware of.

Lewis Carroll I believe tried to prove same by providing an alternative spelling of 'fish' substituting different letters in our language to achieve the identical articulation.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Seanus,

For that matter German is an evolving language too, since its spelling is still in the process of being 'reformed' ( hopelessly complicated is a better word, UGGGGH!) For my money, Polish is sooooo much more phonetic than English, French even German which has plenty of silent dipthongs e.g. "ie" in "wIE", "dIE" as well as "Rhein" where the "h" written, is silent.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Mufasa,

I frankly don't think that Polish grammar is any more 'complicated' than other grammar systems with which I'm familiar. It's merely that Polish, much like German for that matter,

requires more of an arsenal of applied usage than does English, basically. More is needed in say, Polish, to form basic thoughts and put them into language, than does English which is confusing too, yet by virtue of its erratic orthography and seeming sameness of articulate construction "the" "a" "an", with no longer varied inflections corresponding to case usage. Foreigners, i.e. Poles in this instance, are often looking for more grammar and rules than currently exist in English. English speakers on the other hand are often baffled by so much grammar in Polish.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

When Poles speak foreign languages such as German or English, in my experience, they often tend to 'overpronounce' and not to elide or 'swallow' syllables or schwa-sounds, e.g. final "e" in "thE" etc. English speakers do the opposite, lending their speech in other languages a drawling, almost lazy, quality. In addition, most Polish words are accented on the second-to-last syllable, such as "FO - tel", "HO - tel", "KSIĄŻ - ka" etc. compared to English "ho - TEL" or "hel - LO" and so forth.

Poles sometimes sound as though they're chirping like birds when they speak English.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Witaj, grzyźiu!

Do you consider English or Polish tongue twisters (łamacze językowe) harder:

"W Szczeszebrynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzececinie." vs. "Theopholus Thistle, the successful thistle sifter successfully sifting a thread of unsifted thistles through the thick of his thumb.." etc. To koszmar, nieprawda?

Dobrej zabawy! (Have fun!)

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Hey guys!

Apropos something completely different. I'm still searching for something on line about Polish dialects, especially the so-called 'góral' or Highlander Polish of the Tatry Mts. area.

Any suggested sites?? Thanks.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Dariusz,

One of the cutest vocabulary/dialect words from the 'góral'-speakers' region is "godzinnek" for standard Polish "zegar"! The list is helpful.

Dzięki

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

"English makes sense." LOL

Of course it does, Shelley, to you and other English native speakers, but NOT to a native Polish, German, whatever. Yours is rather ethnocentrist thinking, if I follow your logic correctly. The first of the examples you give OSV makes perfect "sense" in many of the world's languages, among them Turkish, Korean and Japanese. SVO is actually in the relative minority among the myriad tongues on this planet, i.e. living languages.

Perhaps too, this very point is the reason English speakers often shy away from studying a foreign language in school: because they've been taught to believe English is the most normal (ha-ha!!) of any language. Other languages therefore must be weird.

Sure hope that's not what you're seriously saying!

Language / What's the difference (verbs question)? [14]

This is true. By the way, certain dialects of Polish have different verb conjugations from the standard language, much the same as in German or other languages I'm told!

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Dariusz, Michał et al.....

The 'magic' year in the development of English, that is, in terms of unstoppable influx of foreign words into native Anglo-Saxon, was of course 1066 AD - the Norman Conquest - when the English language received, so to say, it's greatest injection of French, i.e. Latin, vocabulary.

German and Polish, just to mention two, never experienced this exact same type of "discovery conquest", except of the course for the gradual inroads of English into their languages. Analogous events in the annals of language might be Romanian, completely Latin until the Roman settlement in Slavic-speaking territory or Turkish, essentially of Turkic word stock (as English is still considered a 'Germanic', and not a Romance, tongue!) with a heavy overlay of Arabic from neighboring border invasions, settlements etc.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Indeed, all 'silent' letters in English spelling are a direct result of the Normans' influence on the language. Interestingly enough, "Normans" means "Northmen", suggesting that in fact William the Conqueror wasn't French at all, but Norse or North European by birth or descent!

Apropos the former, much of Sir Edmund Spenser's "Faerie Queene" resembles Chaucer's ME, just look at the spelling of "Queene" with an unpronounced final "e". The leap from OE, e.g. Beowulf, Cynewulf, Caedmon's Hymn etc. to late ME is therefore considerable.

Polish though too underwent a similar, if historically less dramatic, transformation, e.g. "Polzsce" > "Polsce" etc.

Language / Polish Case System [32]

Michał,

I remember hearing from Polish speakers at various consulary functions: "Prośimy Państwa! Prośimy gości do stołu!"

Presumably, they were speaking correct Polish. Far be it from, at best an advanced intermediate non-native such as myself, to correct a native speaker's Polish.

Language / Share Perfective and Imperfective Polish verbs [105]

Dziękuję za pomóc!!! Wiki-site jest wspaniały.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Good point, Darius! True, I gave a deceptively 'false' example. I omited to mention too that many letters which are TODAY silent, such as the final "e", were NOT so back then.

I should have remembered since I had the rare chance of hearing old voice recordings in the days of the great, late lamented LPs, of Prof. Norman Bessinger of Columbia's English Dept. reading OE and ME texts aloud in the original. Honestly, the ME of Chaucer sounded in pronounciation much like modern Yorkshire speech!

OE 'cwene' is a direct cognate for 'kvinde' and 'kvinna', respectively in Danish and Swedish where it means the generic for 'woman'. 'Queen' on the other hand is 'dronning' (Danish) and 'drottning' (Swedish)

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Old Norse is similar in both structure as well as vocabulary and inflection to Old (even Modern!!!) Icelandic. Little has changed in orthography. I've been told that only the pronounciation is noticably different.

But, as with any dead language, we have no way of knowing for sure. Speech reconstructions however are fascinating, but not that accessible!

Mentioning Dutch, in order to pass modern German Linguistics, I needed to take a class in Middle Dutch. It put me to sleep, not because of the instructor, but because it was all so repetitive of the modern language, I was bored to tears!

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Turkce orgrenyorum. It's so different from Polish, I'm not able to say which language is more challenging. Well, having grown up with German and English practically bilingual, I guess anything's easy now! - - :):) LOL

Language / Share Perfective and Imperfective Polish verbs [105]

Dzięki, Mihału!

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Witaj, turecka kobieto!! (małe poprawienie twojego dostępstwa słów, nic więcej)

"Mam wielu [lepiej niż 'duży' ='wielkie', nie 'ilu?'] przyjaciól Z POLSKI, którzy uczą się języka tureckiego."

Tak, jest bardzo praktyczny dzisiaj, bo teraz jest Polska członkiem Unii Europejskiej.
W przyszłości Turkija też??

"Hope springs eternal" as we say in the States.

Language / Share Perfective and Imperfective Polish verbs [105]

No, Krzysztof! Coraz więcej uczę się tego języka.

Ślicznie dziękuję.

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Pytanie. Rodzaj męski w przypadku wołaczim: "Witaj, turczynku!" ???

Language / What language do you like better, Polish or English? [71]

Wreszczie zrozumiem. Dziękuję!!

Language / Common mistakes made by foreigners in Polish [90]

Matyjasz!

When former President Carter visited Poland to meet with that-time Party Secretary Gierek, Carter's interpreter came out with: "I lust after the Polish people!" instead of "I yearn to (tęsknię) visit with the Polish people...."! Carter's people back home in the State Dept. thought it hilarious.

Secretary Gierek and company were decidedly NOT amused by the gaff, believing it to have been done on purpose! Guess we'll never know. LOL - - :):)

Language / Share Perfective and Imperfective Polish verbs [105]

Michałe!

For what it's worth, I rather enjoy Krzysztof and Iwonka (past tense, in this case)'s detailed linguistic explanations.

Language / Share Perfective and Imperfective Polish verbs [105]

Cześć, Krzysztof!

Dziękuję, 'dokonane' przeciwko 'niedokonanymi' czasownikami jest trudną sprawą we wszsystkich językach słowiańskich. Czasowniki ruchu są nieletnie a potrzebuje się codziennie ćwicić.

Language / Common mistakes made by foreigners in Polish [90]

Osiol,

Here's what worked for me P- CH - AIRRR - VAH, accent on the first syllable, of course!

Polonia / Polish-German Language Exchnage! [10]

Halloechen (typically 'Piefkenese'!!), Baska!

Problem though with "Mir fehlen die Woerter!" is that it's not idiomatic, even if grammatical, German.

My problem very briefly in Polish is that I often translate from the German. I can translate fluently from Polish into German. Vice versa though I wouldn't even attempt, certainly not for serious pay. - - :):) LOL

My e-mail is panlech31@yahoo should you wish to continue this thread.
Posłaj mi e-mail po polsku oraz po niemiecku. Czy masz czas, umiem poprawić twoje błędy, tak jak ty możesz poprawić moje błędy po polsku. Dobra idee?

Language / Share Perfective and Imperfective Polish verbs [105]

Krzysztof,

In English, the verb "work" can also have as the supine tense "wrought" for "worked". Many think that "wrought" is the perfect form of "wreak", as in "to wreak havoc" = to cause destruction. The former though is highly antiquated and almost elevated usage, hardly advisable for foreigners.

This may be a misnomer. Will have to check Wiki. on that one!

Polonia / Polish-German Language Exchnage! [10]

Falkster,

"Mir fehlen die Woerter." is also correct, it simply means something different; "I'm lacking the words." rather than "I'm lacking the expression".

In German, "Woerter" and "Worte" have different meanings as plural forms of the same singular, "das Wort".

Many non-natives I've run into aren't aware of that! - - :)

Language / Dokonany/Niedokonany - Perfective/Imperfective [46]

'Musieć' = to have to (must)
'Powinnic' = ought to (should)
móc = to be able to (can)

.....are common modal verbs in Polish. "Auxilliaries" as in English "DO you speak Polish?" etc. don't exist in most languages other than English, in addition, Poles find English-language tag questions rather strange sounding. In English: "Do you like books?" -Yes, I DO. vs. Polish "Czy lubisz książki?" = Tak, lubię. (lit "...Yes, I like.)

Will have to get back to you later about the other verb questions.