Return PolishForums LIVE
  PolishForums Archive :
Posts by Marek  

Joined: 15 Feb 2007 / Male ♂
Last Post: 16 Jun 2009
Threads: Total: 4 / In This Archive: 4
Posts: Total: 867 / In This Archive: 617
From: Nowy Jork
Speaks Polish?: Tak
Interests: rozgrywki, podrozy

Displayed posts: 621 / page 3 of 21
sort: Oldest first   Latest first   |
Marek   
13 Jun 2007
Language / Should I learn both Polish and German [147]

Hi, Glowa!
You're quote reminds me of the youngest daughter in the US-TV sit-com "Six Basic Ways For Dating My Teenage Daughter": "Hey, Allie! Are you going..? - Like, uh- I'm sooo going to the party..."

American slanguage really seems to catch on. Hope the American "standard" (Ooops, did I say a bad word -:) ) at least reaches a first place tie!



Michal,

I think you've hit the nail on the head! "If someone is linguistic and thinks they speak well....". Problem is often (not always, I ruefully admit) they DON'T and have inflated egos concerning how linguistic they actually are!

Scandinavians, especially Icelanders and Norwegians, do in fact learn English very thoroughly from very early on. Still, it's a bit of the "Look Ma, no hands!" syndrome of believing oneself to be perfect because everything seems to come so easily.



Mihal,

That's different. You're Polish was corrected by a Pole because you're not Polish. My point is different. As an English speaker, what has been the reaction when you correct their English. I wouldn't think it etiquette to correct their Polish being as you're not a native speaker (save for a pure typo, for example).



Michal,
That's different. You're Polish was corrected by a Pole because you're not Polish. My point is, as a native English speaker, what has been the reaction when you correct their English? I wouldn't think it etiquette to correct their Polish being as you're not a naitve speaker (save for a pure typo, for instance). Why is English the language which can be trampled over on a regular basis? Is it becoming the case for the tesy of the world as I once saw on a sign over a London bookstore: "BROKEN ENGLISH SPOKEN PERFECTLY"?

Gilbert and Sullivan would be turning over in their graves!
Marek
Marek   
14 Jun 2007
Language / Some example sentences using each of the cases in Polish [33]

Hey, Nick!

Sounds like you're getting into the language more than just casually, if you're seriously interested in how Polish cases work.
My colleagues have given you some good advice. Polish cases can be confusing because not only is gender an issue, but, (as in other Slavic languages compared, say, with German and Latin) the question of whether the noun is "animate" (a living organism) vs. "inanimate" (non-living things; objects ...). Here, case agreement can seem to play tricks on you, i.e. you thought ya got it, then turns out, ya didn't! At least that was the case with me.

Have to run, but again, my colleagues can fill in the blanks until I have more time.
Powodzenia! (Best of luck!)
Marek

Nick,

Here's a quickie example of what I meant. "Widze ten nowy stól." (I see that new table.)
"Widze tego nowego psa" (I see that new dog) (pies=dog). The first sentence uses "widzic" = to see, but what I'm seeing is an inanimate masculine noun (table= stól). In the second sentence, same verb, same case (accusative!) "sees" an animate masculine noun (pies= dog), so the adjective ending changes to the identical endings for the genitive case.

In the beginning, such permutations which native speakers barely think about can seem hoeplessly complex!
Trust me though, they ARE masterable.
Marek
Marek   
15 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

Greetings, Matt "Administrator"!

As a basically bilingual US-born German-English speaker who learned Polish at the ripe age of about early 30-something, I would say that even the best of us can really only possess at most TWO so-called mother tongues (lit. "father tongues" in Polish = jezyk ojczyny). I would NEVER consider myself bilingual on Polish, probably I never will be and the enlightened native Polish members of this forum would obviously agree! -:)

There are examples however of that notable exception: the true language genius or polyglot who not only masters their second language, but has moved beyond mere mimicry into the wonderworld of stylistically composing to the delight of native speakers in that second language and who then becomes a national standard.

The only human with whom I'm familiar (and have enjoyed reading) was, happily for us
all, a native Pole who never saw his adopted country until in his twenties and never studied his adopted language formally until early adulthood: His name is Joseph ('scuse me "Józef") Conrad (originaly family names escapes me). Curiously, though he wrote like the most masterful of mother-tongue stylists, when he spoke English, his accent and even grammar were said to be embarrassingly "Polish"!

Marek

Michal,
Afrikaans is the only language I know with a "defective" first person of the verb "to be": Ek is..., lit. "I is". Certainly, it's the ony Germanic tongue with this feature with which I'm familiar!

Comments?
Marek
Marek   
15 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

Michal,

For foreigners, the tough thing about German (and I'm only talking about the grammar) is basically the word order and the oodles of prefixed verbs followed by the gender/case agreement. Without all that, I supposed German would be called, well, English -:)

Polish is less transparent, especially in the numbering system!

Marek
Marek   
16 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

Witaj, Buniu!

"The" = specyficznie przedmioty i osoby, n.pr "Where are THE books? - On THE table" (Tylko JEDEN stol), "Where is THE man?" itd.

"A"/"An" = powszechnie przedmioty i osoby, n.pr. "I'm looking for AN empty (wolny) table." (Cokolwiek!)

Czy zrozumiesz?
Marek
Marek   
17 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

Czesc!
Bunia, you seem to want to practice your English here so I'll correct a few minor things in English instead of using Polish:
"I do understand the general idea behind it (not a bad idiom).......but there are (not "is") a lot of different rules and I tend to confuse them......"

Overuse of slang seems to be your biggest problem in English, not as much the articles. In your position, I'd focus more on the standard language rather than on phrasal expressions, i.e. "mess up" etc. until you're quite sure of correct usage.

Marek

Bunia,

Polish has indeed prepositions, "na", "w", "pod " etc... just as English or German. You mean "articles" (artykuly), of which Polish has in fact f.ex. "ci", "te", "ten" for English "this", but not for simply "the", that's true.

Marek
Marek   
21 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

"And, English is quite ambiguous......."

Indeed. Right you are, Miguel. Spanish, for instance, has "ser"and "estar" for the one English verb "to be". Even the seemingly complicated Polish tongue has only one verb for "to be".

Yet precisely in its ambiguity, lies the richness, the texture and melody of English, "the music in the malarkey", I call it. Why then do Abbot & Costello or The Marx Brothers often fall flat in other cultures? It seems "Borscht Belt" humor is NOT a universal language!

Marek
Marek   
21 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

Correct, thanks to English, the universal "buffer tongue" of the world's citizens, everyone of us is able to communicate.......well, sort of, at any rate.

I suppose I've long since thrown in the towel of the purist's fight, the battle of the ever frustrated idealist, to rescue English from long-suffering abuse at the hands of linguistic incompetents, i.e. bureaucrats, more interested in profits than quality.

I've given in, but I've never given up!
Marek
Marek   
25 Jun 2007
Language / Some example sentences using each of the cases in Polish [33]

Michal,
"Mam psa." is accusative masc. singular (animate male noun). "Mam psów" is merely the plural. However, "Mam stól", NOT "Mam stolu", because of course "stól" is an inanimate male noun.

Same for "papierosy" (although perhaps they feel "alive" after having smoked several in succession! -:) ). "Papierosów" would simply be the genitive plural form.

You remember, I assume, that when using the accusative case for animate male nouns, as above, the noun endings ALWAYS take the genitive. For inanimate male nouns, the accusative endings are required!

Marek

PS
In the negative, the rule for inanimate male nouns changes, e.g. "Czy masz czas?" - Nie, nie mam czasU." For negations only, the genitive is used for nouns of ALL genders!
Marek   
26 Jun 2007
Language / Kasia and Zosia pronounce [17]

Beannie,

Individual "s" sounds can vary. It sounds on the surface like "Kashia", but the "sh" sound in this combination, "Kasia", "Basia", etc. is pronounced much less like f.ex. an English "sh" and more lax, almost lazily. It is NEVER pronounced in Polish like a true "sh"sound in "Szczecin" (Sh-ch-e cin), the city name.

Furthermore, in Polish, every letter is pronounced and there are really NO schwa sounds (represented phonetically by a backwards-written "e") as in English or other languages

Marek

Hi!

I should also add that in Polish, syllable stress is much more regular than, say, English. Therefore, whereas English and French as well (but not German!) will typically reduce the final vowel e.g. "agenda", "livre" etc. into a sort of "uh"-sound, this doesn't happen in Polish. Charactaristically, when Poles say a sentence such as "I'm from Poland.", it frequently comes out sounding "Ay ahmm frrraum PoLAND." because to them, the typical schwa-sound doesn't exist!

Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / Kasia and Zosia pronounce [17]

Droga Medziu!

Cwiczenie tworzy mistrza. (Practice makes perfect!)

Marek

PS
Incidentally, Poles are usually far more tolerant of foreigners' occasional mispronunciations of their language than are the Hungarians, for example. Why they're even worse than the Parisians. Yet on a scale of 1-10, the Germans (not the Austirans) are by far the most tolerant I've found in Europe with regard to problems non-natives have with their language.

...plus, Americans especially are slurring all over the place! I never met a reduced vowel sound I didn't like. --:)
Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / Some example sentences using each of the cases in Polish [33]

Michal,
Your question appears to be why does "papierosy" not become "papierosow", but "psy" becomes "psow" with the verb "miec", correct?

Well then, both Krysia and I have answered your query.
Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

Michal,

As an older acquaintance from Krakow once remarked to me years ago (in German, as I couldn't even say, much less pronounce, the number "trzy" at the time, i.e. ZERO knowledge Polish!): "All Poles understand Russian language,....but noone speaks it."

Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / Kasia and Zosia pronounce [17]

......such as we Yanks, eh Michal?? -:)

The number of times my "American"was paraphrased and/or actually corrected when I was in London, would fill the pages of a small book!!

Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / Some example sentences using each of the cases in Polish [33]

Michal,

Regrettably I seem indeed to have failed in my understanding of your question. The answer is simply, Polish exception to the rule no. 14_...!!!

"Kolega", "mezczyzna" etc. are instances instead of "masculine animates" with feminine "a"-stem endings, e.g. Znam madrego mezczyzna (with final "a" letter I can't make on my kepboard!).

Does this help a little?
Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / Kasia and Zosia pronounce [17]

Michal,
The difference between Americans and Brits, as a rule, is that the English still have a deep and abilding respect for the sanctity of their language. In other words, it remains a tool with which communication occurs in as aesthetically satisfying a manner as is possible. In the States, on the on the other hand, language is used primarily as a means of filling the vacuum of empty space as much as we can, regardless of what is being said. In brief, we fart out of our mouthes a lot! I'm sure your English wasn't corrected here, as probably noone was really listening to the way you were saying something as much as on the supposed message you were communicating. We don't typically care how nice it sounds, but rather on whether we get your point or not: KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID!, that's our motto.

Don't misunderstand. We Americans pride ourselves on being a linguistically tolerant bunch. It's easy being tolerant when you don't know the rules.

Think I'll quit now! -:)
Marek

I was there both as a tourist when I was sixteen (around 1978) and later on business.
By the way, my written work had no "accent", so noone would have dared to correct it.
Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

The Poles, on the contrary, I've found to pride themselves on being quite linguistic (my hobbyhorse Joseph Conrad, after all - I've already bored us all enough about him -), particularly in French, their former offical court language, as elsewhere in Europe, as well as German (e.g. "Herr" Reich-Ranicki, Polish-born doyen of German TV biliophiles).

English, it's true, is another story again, at least for the average Lech or Mieczko on the street.

The real "linguists" of Europe are the Swedes, the Dutch to a degree and of course, the Hungarians, whose vocabulary in English especially, can be astounding!

Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / Some example sentences using each of the cases in Polish [33]

Ooops! When you're right, you're right. Sorry, must have been sleeping. In fact, I think it should really be "Znam madrego mezczyzni/kollegi."

Don't quote me, lest I sow even more confusion here!
Marek
Marek   
27 Jun 2007
Language / A Native American or a Native Pole: Who is better into which language? [116]

Ha-ha! -:)

Was recently in a bookstore looking for "Remembrances of Things Past" (in English, regrettably as my literary French is well beyond repair) and said to the bookdealer, a youngish sort around thirty or so, "Could you tell me where I might find Marcel Proust?", to which the young man replied, "Sorry, I don't believe he works here."

Both of us had a good chuckle over that!!!
Cheers,

Marek

Czesc, Unikpoland!

I didn't find that the Poles spoke especially good English. They did try though, which, I guess, is better than nothing.

A bit too much US-slang however. Perhaps their English might be better served by a little more Steinbeck and Faulkner, a little less "Friends" and "Miami Vice".

Gdy JA zaczynalem, przed wieloma latami uczyc sie jezyka polskiego, chcialem czytac n. pr. Elzbiete Orzeszkowe itd. po polsku. Teraz umiem rozmawiac o te pisarke po polsku.

Marek
Marek   
29 Jun 2007
Language / Parents Swearing in Polish - doesn't make any sense!! [11]

Typical "older" curses: (...which literally translated, sound weird!)

Psiakrew!! = Blast!, Sonnnofab_ _ _ _ h! ("dog's blood")
Cholera! = Dammit! ("cholera")
Psiakrew bydlo! = Same as "psiakrew" ("dog's blood", "cattle")

Marek
Marek   
3 Jul 2007
Language / Speaking to people in Poland: Formal or Informal [3]

W jezyku polskim jest jezykem niemieckim w Austrii bardzo podobne, n pr. "Grüss Gott, Herr Direktor Wenninger, Hob' i di Ehre!" (Pochywalony, Panie Direktorze Wenninger! "Hob i die Ehre"! nie umie tlumaczony)

The Austrians, much like the modern Poles, lay considerable emphasis on polite phrases in order to express rank and title.
Marek
Marek   
21 Jul 2007
Language / what is the difference between prosze and poprosze? [39]

"Prosic"/"poprosic" is sort of like "rozumiec" (to understand) vs. "zrozumiec". The latter form is perfective, the former, imperfective. When, for example, we say "Prosze!" or better still "Prosze o cos!", e.g. to the server in a restaurant, it means something we do all the time, namely, requesting something. The sentence though beginning "Czy moge uprzejmie poprosic, gdy.. (not: "prosic")....." would mean that the request is just this one specific time, not general, i.e. imperfective.

Same with: "Czy rozumiesz po polsku?" = Do you (in general) understand Polish? vs. "Czy zrozumiesz moje pytanie?" = Do you (right now) understand my question?

Marek