UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


Who knows? I don't know, do you?
I think that even USA authorities know, I would say that for a Brit is much easer to pass for an American.Don't you?


Most of them?Do you have any statistics?
Sorry Shelley but I don't buy it that most of said immigrants are starting they own businesses there ...and how many are successful? Main difference I see is that Brits have some capital for a start, to buy better house that they could afford in Britain and that they can speak lingo :)


Oh really? I don't think so.
You want to better your life and they want to better their life.
Only difference is starting point, is simple as that!
You must be one very young lady or a very naive one regardless your claim to come up with something like that.

Saying all that I agree that uncontrolled immigration is bad and there should be done something about it.
As for your claim that British government didn't foresee it because is stupid, I disagree I sense something more sinister there ......
As for whining, people constantly are whining about influx of Eastern Europeans and such, well what would you think if someone was ranting and slurring you because he/she didn't like a way you were doing something which is perfectly legal ?

No wonder you are getting your own whining back into your face, people are people.


Well, everybody there suckers to be milked dry, everyone have a go !:P

UK, Ireland / Why do Poles come to England? [514]


Probably?
?....you don't know either :)

We could assume that their number is lower then Poles but we don't know and that is that!

History / What would Europe look like with Polish-Lithuanian-Ukrainian Commonwealth today [209]


No, wrong, its so wrong that you can't be wrong more!

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


What are you talking about?

History / Grand Duke Constantine Pavlovich viceroy of Poland - What do you think of him? [11]

ConstantineK
I think that he was mentally unstable and unable to govern and to take firm political stand on any issue.
He was an older brother of the Czar, he didn't become a Russian ruler for a reason.

History / Grand Duke Constantine Pavlovich viceroy of Poland - What do you think of him? [11]


Its debatable but that he had mental issues is pretty certain.

History / Grand Duke Constantine Pavlovich viceroy of Poland - What do you think of him? [11]


On the contrary it is prove that he had some sense left.

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Was?Que?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


first of all there were many Poles in German army who were conscripted, I think you don't know that.

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Not only Germans ....also those who were seen as a Germans by the German state, for example if someone was born in 1917 in Poznan he was citizen of the German state (doesn't matter nomenclature) as such he after 1939 was automatically counted as German citizen and conscription followed more often then not.

Roughly the same happened to children born to parents who were one time citizen of German state before WWI.
So, people were Poles, no doubt about it but were threated by German state as Germans.


Sure, but never could be bothered to memorize this bureaucratic BS, I know that as long as Germans needed recruits they weren't too particular about way to get it!

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


I'm pretty sure that on the lands which were part of Germany before WWI it was automatic process, exempt those actively involved into institutions of independent Polish state.

There were some Germans, no doubt but you are trying to impose your false view that most of the Poles serving in German army were of German origin or were volunteers.

When in fact most of them were conscript who were forced to be a part of German army and more often then not their family were hostage.

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


thats reality and you are talking theory!

I will look for some links about
But if parents were German citizen before WWI when Polish state doesn't existed they and their children were automatically granted German citizenship after 1939 and then eventually conscripted to German army. And yes, they didn't protest, would you?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Simple, conscript deserted, unit is sending telegram, and his family is busted - how hard it could be ?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


Their homes? Do you think that they could emigrate to USA for example ?


Why should you?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


I don't doubt it !
But you have only heard part of the story, do you doubt that there were polish Silesians whoe were forced to be a German soldiers.


Because its a part of history and because nephew of my great grandmother was in Waffen-SS and was one of those Polish citizen who felt German - so I know what I'm talking about.

And I know the difference between forced conscription and volunteers, verstanden?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


He was only Polish citizen speaking German at home with German surname, he become some kind of officer, don't know much.


Sure, thats zee German myth,
anyway if someone was decreed German citizen and then called to arms, it wasn't much he could do, was it?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]

Yes, thats my point, people on polish territories incorporated into Germany were granted German citizenship whatever they wanted it or not.
Others were kicked out.
How hard is it to understand ?


I reluctantly have given him as an example of ethnic Germans who were Polish citizens but have chosen German citizenship and sided with Germany during the WWII, to let you know that I do know what I'm talking about.

You are blissfully unaware of many things.:P

Did you know that Bavaria were settled by Avars?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


yes but you don't understand that majority of population which lived on the territories incorporated into Germany after 1939 were granted German citizenship regardless they were Poles or Germans, did they wanted it or not!

Do you copy now? or your helmet gets in the way?

Bratwurst Boy
So what is the problem?
no problem, I know that some people sided with Germany during the war but there were many who was forced into German army by circumstances, and wouldn't do so given a chance.

Do you have problem with it?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


yes but people who have signed it wasn't Germans very often but Poles forced by circumstances, then there was conscription, and Poles in German army - thats the fact BB, why don't you face it?

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


do you think that I deny it?
All I'm saying is that many Poles on the territories incorporated into Germany after 1939 signed volk-something not to be kicked out with in two hours like 800,000 their countryman's.

Those Poles were allowed to do it by Polish government for humanitarian reasons.
This situation produced "German" citizens conscripted into German army.
Do you understand now?
Or you are in denial?

I-S (take off your helmet, does it sink in, now?)

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Really? what would that be ?
Would you said the same thing about Germans and Jews ?

I-S (phew!)

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


thats the fact BB, people on the territories incorporated into III Reich after 1939 if given a choice signing Volkliste were given green light to do so by Polish government for humanitarian reason.

Later it produced phenomena of "German" citizen conscripted into German army and I'm not talking about those German citizens before 1939 but ethnically Polish.

Do you copy now?

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


you misunderstood me.
I mean would you said that German had a right to have grudge against Jews?

For me above statement is logical conclusion of your ridiculous statement in contexts of Ukrainians and Poles.
Its so stupid that I lack vocabulary to describe it and don't want resort to invectives.

Would you consider some time off to think about what you said, and I mean really think!!!

I-S (GEE!)

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


**** BB everything whats real is murky, we haven't been talking about Poles living in Germany and having German citizenship - thats quite murky area!

As for ethical Poles? I don't know how, look for it yourself in German sources,
One reason comes to mind - Poles on the territories incorporated into Germany in 1939 before 1918 were German citizens, and before them their parents and grandparents, sometimes for many generation, maybe it had something to do with it and a fact that Germans governors were allowed to adjust a bit general policy on the territories govern by them?

latency of Polish government it the fact and some commentary about attitude of Polish soldiers towards Poles in German uniform weren't so one sided and simple as some American seems to believe, as a example: my grandpa, an officer in Army "Poznan" which kicked some German asses,taken as a POW by Germans in 1939, was treated by Germans front line troops very good, corporal said to him Soldad ist ein Soldad - or something like that.

And as you well know general attitude towards Poles, soldiers or not wasn't that nice!
So, I wouldn't jump to conclusions about the way Poles were treating Poles in German uniforms based on one testimony even if that guy believed it.

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]

No, but it wasn't invective as you assumed :P

I-S (anything else?)

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Always BS !


Who cares? They can have Ukrainian lands but why oh why they impose themselves on Polish territories - Lwów, Podole and part of Wolyn.


well, maybe they should ask Goths as well, you are ridiculous.


Thats what I was trying to tell you all along.
Poles may sound nationalistic, unable to self-criticism when in fact most of it is defensive attitude in discussion with foreigners.
In fact I have noticed same attitude in some Brits on PF when they jump on shadows "defending" their country.
In fact Seanus attitude displayed by your student is not that rare or exclusive.
In 1890 in Krakow in the society of historians developed trend, in short they most of the blame for Poland misfortunes and disasters ascribed to the shortcomings and failures of the Poles.

In communist Poland this trend become travesty of itself and any actions of Poles as independent and proud nation were ridiculed.
Poland should become depended colony of others as Poles were and are unable to govern themselves.
Your student is a fool, ask her about her background for communist party or communist security forces in her family.


Its only solution for Poland to remain independent country, being medicate is no good as there Russia and Germany.

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]


stop banging its no good for you......
start thinking ,,,,

History / The Poms who stood by the Poles in WW2 [156]

What facts ? that there was no Polish nationals in German army?and I'm not talking about citizenship.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


will you stop spread rubbish on my thread which has nothing to do with the tread subject.
stop goading that nazi freak Nathan for sanity sake .....

the same goes for you Torq

where is adm / random?