Language / Do you think there is something like Warsaw accent ? [29]

JustysiaS

Take it for granted there are huge differences between the North and the South but we are discussing just Warsaw LOL.

Language / Do you think there is something like Warsaw accent ? [29]


Sometimes I've got exactly the same impression while comparing languages spoken in Warsaw and (for example) Lodz. It's a striking similarity.


No doubt about that.
I only try to find something to explain what I'm on about.
I grew up in the Northern part of Warsaw with some remains from the old Marymont still alive.
I guess I can even speak like that
The Wiki link you have posted gives more examples:
Alina Janowska (not Warsaw born but speaking a fair Warsaw accent), Marek Hlasko - just in some of his novels, Kazik Staszewski and all the sudden Muniek Staszczyk from Czestochowa LOL.

Language / Do you think there is something like Warsaw accent ? [29]


I don't pretend to have any professional knowledge of Polish dialects but it's not exactly what I mean.
Frankly, it sounds very "plebeian" in modern Polish, all those folksongs from old Czerniakow or Targowek suburbs.
(Performed by Stanislaw Grzesiuk for example.)

But listen to this song from Jan Pietrzak:

Warsaw accent or not ?

History / What if scenario´s for WW2 and Poland [112]

You have no idea about Stalin's cowardness.
He planned to move the Soviet capital to Samara where his 40 m deep bunker already waited for him.
travbuddy.com/travel-blogs/19237/Stalins-bunker-1

Language / Gdybym...łbyś [16]


Wrong.
Correct form:
Gdybym zaśpiewał, zapłakałbyś

History / 64th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising [71]

Rather mysterious person this Kaminski.
Already the first search brings three different places of birth - Petersburg, Witebsk area and ... Poznan, two first names Bronislaw and Mieczyslaw, not to mention unknown circumstances of his death.

History / 64th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising [71]


Let us put some facts straight.
The only link to Kaminski's "Polish" roots are his names.
No other sources confirming his Polish origin and historians are even not sure about his place of birth. .
I know personally Russians using Polish names what does not make them even a bit Polish.
Same goes for his ( allegedly) "German" mother.

So for me Kaminski was a standard product of the Soviet brainwashing who turned from red to nazi - brown after being arrested and sentenced in the Soviet Union.

His openly declared objective was to became a Nazi - leader of Russia.
His hatred towards Poles - second to none (von dem Bach Zelewski's opinion)

History / 64th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising [71]


We have to be careful with statements like this.

Even your Wiki-link clearly says the only fully Ukrainian unit was Wolhynia Legion which was not involved in any of main slaughters in Warsaw.

Soviet POWs with Ukrainian roots in (Russian) RONA by no means represented any Ukrainian political orientation - they were just Soviet collaborators.

It's true about the bad reputation of all Eastern auxiliary troops in general but just in case of Ukrainians a lot of manipulation has been done by UB which was nothing more than a KGB (NKWD) branch office in Warsaw lol.

In my opinion, even respected Polish historians had to mention the Ukrainian part in Uprising pacification in order to satisfy the commie censorship.

History / 64th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising [71]


Hardly recorded.
There was only a lot of rumors about Ukrainians .
Probably spread on purpose by the Polish KGB branch.

If we speak about Kaminski's and Dirlewanger's troops we can only assume there were some Ukrainian ex-POW's among the Soviet collaborators .
But not an Ukrainian unit.
Moreover, for Warsaw born people it was rather impossible to tell Ukrainian from Belorussian.
And Belurussians and Russians made a core of Kaminski's troops.

I repeat: the only proven fact of the Ukrainian presence in Warsaw 1944 was so called Wolhynia Legion commanded by Petro Diachenko.
This unit of 400 soldiers spent one week in Warsaw fighting in the Czerniakow part of the city and not in Wola or Ochota (well known for the infamous RONA crimes).

History / 64th anniversary of the Warsaw Uprising [71]

Again some masterpiece from Harry - how to redirect the Warsaw Uprisinig thread to the Polish "collaboration".

History / Russians are Ugro-finnized Poles - no way around it ! [44]


Whatever you say Kostik, you're my beloved brother from now and I consider Russians to be the lost ten tribes of Poland .
Now I understand your eternal drive to pay us a friendly visit - it must be terrible ... just like some kids lost in your woods, surrounded by Moomin trolls and Chukhontsy ...

Good for you to have at least some nice Snegurochkas in the darkness.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


I can imagine many different reasons for that.
First ... maybe she doesn't speak Ukrainian or some local surzyk only ?

Then, many people in the post-Soviet republics still believe Russian is a kind of lingua franca in the East-European region .
At least many Poles used to learn it at school.
Not quite successful I have to admit but given some basic school level knowledge, Russian can be easier to understand for Poles than Ukrainian language.


Only because they want it and frankly, I am even not sure they realize how long is the way to go..
1989 we didn't either.
It's not only about economy.
It's mentality as well.
Many has changed in Poland but look at the political mess here !

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


No, it was in Kiev.
I just want to stress the language is not the most important factor of the national identity in Ukraine.
One can speak Ukrainian, Russian or some surhzyk and still be a devoted Ukrainian patriot.
It's 'sovok" who suffers a lack of identity.

What I said above does not mean they have exactly the same political views.

I remember my discussion with some young people in Odessa which is part Ukrainian, part Russian with lot of Jewish color so you can imagine their different opinions.

But all of the sudden they had no doubts:
Ukraine should go for the full EU-membership.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


It's probably all about the language.
My guess is the taxi drivers tried to explain that it's Ukraine being the true heir of Kievian Rus' - it's a common opinion among Ukrainians on the contrary to Russians lol.

It's pretty hard to express those nuances in English or any other language.
Mostly, people who don't have enough "feeling" for East-Slavonic languages will get the message wrong.

The best example is this Polish one:
Russkie pierogi does not mean Russian pierogi.
It means Ukrainian pierogi in slightly archaic Polish.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


But how it makes them Russian ?

I used to travel for business all over Ukraine.
From East to West.
And have met three categories of people living there: Ukrainians, Russians and Sovoks.

To be Ukrainian does not mean to be anti-Russian.
What I saw was rather kind of a "critical" sympathy.

As for cultural influences:
I love Russian culture but am I Russian ?
Hardly.

I know a Lviv born girl from Kiev.
She is slightly nationalistic type but prefers to speak ... Russian !
Once I asked her
"Why ? I know you are fluent in both languages."
She didn't know lol.

So don't look for simple answers.
It's possible to be Russian speaking patriot of independent Ukraine.lol.

PS. Sovoks (sovki) are post-Soviet fosiles free of any national feelings.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Not true at all.
There are about 19 - 20% ethnic Russians living in Ukraine and I do believe they feel Russians.
Why shouldn't they ?

Many Ukrainians are Russian speaking or bilingual and except for some "sovoks" they are quite patriotic in sens of Ukrainian patriotism.
Using the language doesn't make them Russians.
You can see the same situation in Ireland, Finland., South-America etc.

History / Russians are Ugro-finnized Poles - no way around it ! [44]


Now I understand my mission here.
My white Slavonic man's burden - to bring Kostik back to the great Polish civilization he has already forgotten !

History / Russians are Ugro-finnized Poles - no way around it ! [44]


Women from my family are soooo Slavic as one can only be.
Blond, all girls with Slavic high cheekbones, blue or gray but ... bit slanted eyes !
Some terrible Caucasian - Mongolian mix probably lol.
Obviously Genghis Khan gens.

History / Russians are Ugro-finnized Poles - no way around it ! [44]


Kinda "a good one" BB lol.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]

Oh Torq, maybe it's just a conspiracy ?
They simple don't want to let Kremlin know about that.

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


Nathan, according to my knowledge the Pereyeslav Treaty declared protection of the Cossack state by the czar.

Even if it is a matter of controversy Chmelnitsky started 1654 a dangerous play with Moscow with some disastrous consequences for both, Ukraine and Poland.
Some years ago I used to discuss with Ukrainians from the old UNA/UNSO board (it was closed because of permanent web-brigades' attacks).

In spite of many controversies we were able to agree on Bohdan Chmelnitsky role in the history:
Talented, charismatic politician and leader but hardly successful national hero.
Hardly a real hero just because of the Pereyeslav Treaty !
Interesting that you are "protecting" him.
337 years of Russian "protection" is that enough to call him a hero ?

History / History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land. [116]


False.
A huge majority of Poles don't care about history and their main achievement on the field of the Polish - Ukrainian relationship is awareness of the Ukrainian presence in European politics.

The last statement is not arrogant.
It reflects the true situation - for the post ww2 generation Ukraine was just a part of the Soviet Union.

Ukrainian history (in both Polish and Ukrainian versions) is some ridiculous conglomerate of myths, wishful thinking and to lesser extend ... facts.

Ukrainian version: starting deep in the history with Goths and Vikings, then never ending rebellions for national freedom against Poles and later Russians.
Of course the favorite occupation of Poles were impaling, rape and burning their own villages and cites (constructed by talented Ukrainians)lol.
All oppressors with no exception were Polish catholics or later Muscovites.
Rusins (Ukrainians) were freedom fighters like Gonta or Zhelesnyak or Pylyp Orlyk who wrote the first state constitutions in Europe.

Polish version: noble Polish pans brought civilization to stone age people in the East (still dwelling in their cavern ). Ungrateful Ukrainians rebelled until they destroyed the only democratic republic in Europe.

Less sophisticated version includes as a national Ukrainian hero Alexandr Domogarov from Moscow who played Bohun in Polish movie "With fire and sword".

Both parts have some problems with Bohdan Chmelnicki who "sold" Ukraine to the Russian czar.

History / Valenza. "It is to fools we owe the minors joys of life" [14]


I'm really sorry Kostik to prove you wrong again but it's Russia claiming German lands Eastwards the Elbe-river:

A RUSSIAN GEOGRAPHY

Moscow and PeterТs town, the city of Constantine,
these are the cherished capitals of the Russian monarchy.
But where is their limit? And where are their frontiers
to the north, the east, the south and the setting sun?
The Fates will reveal them to future generations.
..........
Seven internal seas and seven great rivers
from the Nile to the Neva, from the Elbe to China,
from the Volga to the Euphrates, the Ganges to the Danube.
This is the Russian empire and it will never pass away,
just as the Spirit foretold and Daniel prophesied.

It was Russian diplomat of the highest rank, Mr Tiutchev !

News / Anti-Polonism in Russian literature. [10]


Seanus there is no need for any great differences between religions to create conflicts and the best example is the Anglican Church versus Vatican or in general main forms of Protestantism as confronted with Catholicism.

Catholic versus Orthodoxy was an issue for hundreds years, perhaps of less importance today.
But there was always a lot of politics behind religion.


I would be very careful linking Katyn to Russian problems with Polish elite.
For sur there is some Russian responsibility for crimes of communism but frankly they have lost any control over it.
Remember Goethe's "Der Zauberlehrling" ?


Are you expecting a PhD work in field of Russian literature from me lol ?
I've got some better idea.
Just read this lecture on Pushkin - it's exactly the way (many) Poles are thinking about Russian intelligentsia's attitude towards Poland.
Great reading:
https://books.google.pl/books?id=ZhWR_QrNxF8C&pg=PA59&lpg=PA59&dq=Pushkin,+borodino&source=bl&ots=1ruRGH0aUf&sig=zJt6yqT7Y5Tl_pBTq7IQ_1r8dRo&hl=pl&ei=Grb_SuGhDZyb_QbW27mKCw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result#v=onepage&q=Pushkin%2C%20borodino&f=false

Any questions - you're welcomed.

History / Pole, Jew and dog: all have the same faith. [33]

I don't think "hanging Poles and Jews" is an acceptable ethnic humor in any European country.
Even German television entertainer Harald Schmidt, an icon of German mass culture, famous for his Polenwitze which make American Polish jokes sounding like products of sofisticated intellect, doesn't try to hang us.

At least for the time being. lol.

History / Pole, Jew and dog: all have the same faith. [33]


Hard to say - first critical comment was published on the Ukrainian Portal "Ukrainskaya Pravda" by Mykola Ryabchuk who is an independent journalist and analyst.

And all following comments were linked to his story.
I can hardly believe Ryabchuk is risking his reputation using unproven information.
Moreover, there are many different opinions on Ukrainian boards but nobody denies the fact.