History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

I like Russians as the pepole, I think we are in some issues similar (language, cusine, traditions ect.) But our coutries has different abitions, intersts.

I have met alot of Russians or Ukrainians and we had good time together (vodka ;) )

I was born in eastern Poland (now I live in Poznan), and fore example Białystok was always full of easten slavs, who come to trade or work (illegaly) as we did in western Europe 3 years ago. And it realy disturbs me when somebody is trying to sort them in way STALIN = PUTIN = COMUNISM = RUSSKIES. I dont like when somebody hates me becase of Rydzyk Kaczysnki or Giertych.

What is more those people are realy friendly, hard working, and please stop behave like Germans in relationship with Poles.

All in all i think that history is history, politicians are politicians, but PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE.

I FORGIVE BUT NOT FORGOT

What i want to admit, in relationship on the level of goverment (not people) we want Russia to live their own live and leave alone coutries like Poland, Ukraine, Baltic states. We are independent countries!!!!

What is more, ambitions of Russian authorytary government looks very funy I would say it was faltstart made by Putin .Russiaan coutry even has gas and oil, isnt strong enougt to play the game it stared plaing. And those bombers sended close to UK ... ;) some time ago Russia tried to show Poland as sick coutry in realtionships with them, but afer the rumors in Estonia, braking ati nuclera agreements, sending bombers very close UKs terytory, because of accusing them of their special agents ...

When i talk to Russians they are very often jealous, because we can change our government in election. And they can be only happy when new authorytary leader is better than last one. It is very sad because without democraic Russia it will be very hard to be calm about their aims and ambitions.

But what I want to underline : relationships betwen Polish and Russian people are much different story than relationships beetwen our governments.

Law / Registering and eligibility to vote in the Poland's elections [15]

I vote for civic platform, because I have similar view on economy, foregin affairs, law.

History / Jewish belongings [118]

Hi i think that it will be wery hard to find something belonging to jews comunity in houses, basements ect. Just because those things becomed valuable sewral years ago. And I think that it will be very difficult to find something, even small.

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

I dont know if they are false or not. I just noticed that russians rather likes Poles, maybe I have met those who have seen something in Europe, and knows why Poland have chosen the other way, and that all the things your television is showing in russia is one big S**T.

I find them very friendly ...

What is more, russian society in Germany were suporting Poland team in World Cup not German (in match PLvs Ger) so it shows that love beetwen Russian and German government is something much different than friendship beetwen people ...

What is more, If your government is so strongly supported by citizens, so why it is so scary about free media, free elections ??? Why your governent kills jurnalists ??? In Poland we havent any accident of killing in unknown circumates any jurnalists since 89 ... In russia there were about 50 ...

All I think about Russians is that they are realy ok, but they dont know the feeling when you have democracy and you can change your goverment.

News / Positive features that distinguish Poland from other countries? [63]

Good things in Poland ... maybe we have the bigest (in %) grove since 89 in group of central - eastern european countries (some of them had better start ... thats why they have bigger GDP)

What is more we have realy nice culture

We are one of the best educated young people (in older people it looks not so good)

We have very nice girls

We have great nature

We are great individualists

We have intersting history

...

What can be interesting ... our stock exhanege becomes one of the strongest in central Europe

Companies from Ukraina, Czech rep. Hungary, Baltic states, are listed on our stock exchange. And realy good experts are working aim to make Warsaw regional bissnes center, and this ame is more and more real

What can be intersting for foreginer in our culture ... what describes in good way why we sometimes look so pesymistic ;)

We always complain, you shouldynt take it seuriosly :) Like people in Ireland or USA when you ask if everytjing is ok ? they answer YES GREAT. Poles usualy complain. And we dont take it seriously.

You know maybe it looks strange, but that is the fact.

Look on teh coment about European Union. Most of all people says "maybe it is good, but ... (comlain complain complain)" but ask them if they realy want to leave EU ... ;)))

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

ConsrantineK

First of all i speak russian on bassic level, but we have in Poland neewspapers where you can read current articles from all over the world translated in to Polish. And there are a lot of russian articles ... tygodnikforum.pl

What is more, do you remember Politkowska ?

I understand that you are true supporter of your authorytary government , but dont try to let me think that it is democratic, or that in Russia you have free media ....

Could you answer me, why you (ConstatnineK) dont belive in deomcracy in your country.
Do you think you are not to good for it (I dont think so)

Maybe Putin is much better leader than durnken Jelcyn ... but do you realy think that Russia has the law to have influence on Ukraina ? Poland ? Baltic states ? Georgia?

You know we like your people, but politicaly we want you to F**K of , you have your country so take care about your siberia, Moskwa, St Petersburg. I dont konw why do you think (ConstatntinK) that your government has the law to have special position or something like that.

I strongly belive that, when the Russian people will have to choice their government in free election, with free media ect. They woudnt support government trying to make form country with 140 mln people (70 mln native russians) empire ... You can be only improtant european or asian coutry (it is your choce europe/asia)

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

maybe jelous is bad world, but I have noticed that Russians would prefer to have political, economical, social situation which is in Poland than in Russia. I m not talking about oligarchs but about normal people.

And the other think is that your "free" media is tallking all the time : " Poland isnt Russia ble ble ble ... Democracy like in the west isnt for us russians ble ble ble ... We have our patterns ... our Putin is great ble ble ble ... Russia is respected again ble ble ble "

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

Ehhh but forexaple I m not talking about history, but current problems ... And i dont call Russians Russkies or Germans Krauts, because there are different Poles and different Russians and Germans.

But what i think about Russians is that they are victimims of their own regime, they havent any opportunity to choose their government. And their rather poor people maniupalted all the time ...

You konw there are some regimes in africa too, who kills their own people and invides otherr coutries to avoid disscusion about problems of their own coutry.

Russian government is in that wery simillar, they point at bad western coutries, or nationalistic baltic states to avoid disscusion about corution, economy, law ...

Thats why we have problems with them, because who have meet russians personaly and talk to them, drink vodka with them ;) you know like normal people ... knows that they are realy friendly and much more simillar to Poles than Germans ...

Thats why we should help for oposition in Russia , promote free media there ... because reacher more educated and free people in russia is better for our saffety

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

Yes they ar victims, and our greate german "friends" are suppoorting new face of old regime ... And we are not going to let them make form us (Poles) victims again ...

We do what we can do to help Russians, germans like always are supporting next regime (nothing new). It is not looking we are going to win this battle ... but all in all we are not going to be victim any more .

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

heh CosnstatninK

I used battle not to describe soldiers fighting on filed :-)))) Just the battle of idea :) You know I see myself as the liberal, and I belive the Democracy is good for everybody (maybe it isnt perfect but simply the best)

There were in history battles when one person was winning with whole coutry/regime/ect.

Look at Jean Paul II , Gahndi, Martin Luter King ...

I m not going to vote for opton in my coutry which will send trops to Russia :))) and to be serious. I just belive you are good enought (like every country/nation) to have democracy.

And when I writte about losting the batlle, I writte about that curently Russia is going somwhere ealse, for sure not to be more domocratic ... so we losting the battle, but the bigest victims are your citizens, who dont know what is it freedom of speach ect.

And manipulated society, witch strong developed propaganda aiming new enemies, is quite dangerous for Poland. Germans dont care about that, because they treat russians like not as good humans as they are (I have been in germany several times I have seen a lot ... ) and they just want your petrol and gas and dont care about Russians ...

... so they are great friend of regime but not your nation

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

ConstatntineK

I have seen a lot of Russians in my life ... I know that it is very hard issue, but look here, we've disscused and discussed and we have arleady achieved something.

What is really important we need people in the top with good will ... and that is real problem

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

-Let's leave those strange Russians to live as they want...

You even dont know how similar Russian people are to Poles ... (regardning to your sentence) ...

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

yes I see huge similarities ...

I have been to several European countries, and I find Russian PEOPLE similar, they have similar sense of humour, they reactions are emotional (maybe a littlebit more than our), our cusine is similar, ect.

What is more I noticed that it is very easy for us to make good personal contacts with Russians.

I can support my argument by choices made by wetern managers, who wants to make bussines in Russia ... Do you know who do they choose to go there and represent their interests ... us Poles ... because we have had comunism to, we understand post-comunistic bureaucracy, we know how to do bussines in eastern european countries ;)

our lanuguages are littlebit simillar.

Comon guys, we know that in Russia they have regime now, we had several years ago regime to ... which was atackig USA, UK and supporting USSR, and we as the Poles were waiting fore the oportunity to be free.

Whe have the balls to stick to our guns and fight for our interest in hard relationships with our neibours, but democracy (it is in our and their bussines) in russia isnt possible by forcing them.

There is one big difference betwen us, it is in our history ... Poles were always anarchistic, and we know what the freedom is ... Russians were autoritarive and their citizens dont even know how it is to be realy free (even in their own country)

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

I see that after the moment of hesitation, you have started talking your old speach again...

You just have shown us your human face, in my opinion it is not a shame for man to have human feelings.

When you think you are strange, you became realy strange. So head up ;)

You are not strange ...

I think instead thinking about your "controle zone" in Europe,you should buy some flowes for your girls, and try to make your own country better ;) (In my previous posts I have defined what in my opinion better is ... )

Live and give other people to live :)

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]


Czeczenia

Politkowska

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

Georgia

Good picture of our domocracy

cbc.ca/world/story/2007/04/14/kasparov-arrest.html?ref=rss

something about your democracy (in english)

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

Ok I shoud writte more anarhistic... In XVIII century we were definitly anarchistic, but we were able to reform our sytstem ourselfs (first constitution in the europe) but our neigbours were scared about that and atacked us ...

But all in all i Think that we suolud be quite pride that when other countries in our part of europe were definitly leaded by absolute rulers, we evolulated form more or less anarhistic country to one of the most liberal systems in all over the world ... The problem was we were to weak to defend it (we were atacked by Russians, Prussians and Austrians)

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

ok so firstly constatnionK ... our citizens were always richer, better educated more tolerant, and absolutely more free than yours ... ( talk about rich per capita) Nothing has changed ...

Puzzer,

"In the eighteenth century, the powers of the monarchy and the central administration became purely formal. Kings were denied permission to provide for the elementary requirements of defense and finance, and aristocratic clans made treaties directly with foreign sovereigns. Attempts at reform were stymied by the determination of the szlachta to preserve their "golden freedoms" as well as the liberum veto. Because of the chaos sown by the veto provision, under Augustus III (1733-63) only one of thirteen Sejm sessions ran to an orderly adjournment."

and about the reforms to constantineK

"Stanislaw August's process of renovation reached its climax on May 3, 1791, when, after three years of intense debate, the "Four Years' Sejm" produced what is claimed as Europe's first modern codified constitution. Conceived in the liberal spirit of the contemporaneous document in the United States, the constitution recast Poland-Lithuania as a hereditary monarchy and abolished many of the eccentricities and antiquated features of the old system. The new constitution abolished the individual veto in parliament; provided a separation of powers among the legislative, executive, and judicial branches of government; and established "people's sovereignty" (for the noble and bourgeois classes)"

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

So I see our history in this way: X century the begining of our coutry (kingdom) XV century the begining of Polish parlamentary XVI century golden age , XVIII century cirsise of ou system, than one of the most liberal reforms in all over the world, unfortumately stoped by our neigoburs ... Which started process of Russification and Germanization of our citizens, but they were to weak to make us just next conquered country ... And now we are free again ...

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

I have it form wikipedia

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

I have already read it ... but text form wikipedia was quite easy to copy here

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]


Hmmm so I think that next month we will vote for other options ;)


Oh yes ... what you should notice:

Your tsar gave them more laws, just because he was sure about up coming uprise (our nobels deciided to give those peasants more freedom too) And what is more, how we could give them more freedom when we were under your occupation, we couldnt change the law ...

What can be interesting, we were preparing next law after the constitutnion (XVIII century), we wanted to give more laws for peasants, but you atacked us. It was years before your tsar gave those peasants some laws ...


we choose to recomedize for forigners N Davies, as a good writter and expert of Polish issues just because, he is English man who neutraly writes about this part of Europe. There are more Polish history books translated into English, but we just want people to read neutral writter. Not German, not Russian, not Polish.

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

I object too. The Poland you are writting about was only small part of cultural or even ethnical Poland.
We had persnoal union with you ?
You atacked us, your tsar took our crown and told us "we have the union". Oh yes it was realy nice union ...
Moreover, he decided to make liberal experiment, on this small piece of land with small local authonomy. But latter changed his mind ... Poles were not to thankful...

Our soldiers prefered to die in fight against Russians than die in your wars as your ally against other european nations ...
I dont understand one thing, are you trying to prove that Russinas did somethig good for Poles ?
You should just agree that you had (you still try to have) imperial policy, which last times failed.


Oh yes, I m not so sure if you even solved problem of illiteracy in eastern part of your country.

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]


ok maybe I will show it form the different point, there was focus made on Kamczatka during Abramowicz as a governer there, do you know that 30 % of people living there ... thinks Abramowicz is a GOD !!

You know your way of thinking is just so hard to understand, but it shows your imperial way of thinking, You conquer countries, and try to place under the command of your government, You use several ways to make your aim real, by force or by encouragement.

It doesnt play any difference to you.
You know, but we just dont want anthing to do with you on political level ... And you will never break us ... even by economic sanktions , threads or even force.

You should just accept it.

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]

Ask ukrainians what do they prefer, EU or union with Russia :)))))) Ask Gerogian people about their choice. Maybe you domineted them in the past, but it doesnt mean you have any arguments to have influence on them now. To be honest last times nobody wants anything ealse than petrol and gas from you ... And now you try to use gas and petrol to be still a player. Maybe you have some succes in this new imperial policy, but I think you have made faltstart ...


in comparison to Russia ... Yes.
In Russia there are some positive democratic forces, your government is trying to fight with them, but maybe in the future they will win ... and you will become normal country ...

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]


actualy they prefere to join west, acording current focus.
what is more they are very postively attituded to Poles ... according to the same focus, and my travels (Lwow is grate)


You know, you are quite simillar to ConstantineK ... or even worst ... ehhh no comment.

I think that people like you exist in every country, and you need each other, you know Ortodox jews needs radical Hamas, ConstantineK needs Puzzer. You need each other to prove your silly theories of the world.

News / Poland torpedoes EU Day Against Death Penalty [71]

It is so strange that those people who say "abortion is wrong, because only god has the law to take sb's life" at the same time suppoorts death penalty... It isnt logical at all.

News / Poland torpedoes EU Day Against Death Penalty [71]

I m against death penalty, just because sometimes it happens to kill innocent person, and for those innocent one, we should spend our taxes to held those all killers in prison.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]


You are sick ... now I m sure what do you mean by saying PO has wrong people ...

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]

Ehhmmm, ok I will show my point of view.

Just beffore the II WW jews were about 9,4 % of population. It was the bigges Jews coumunity in Europe, second all over the world (in USA there were more jews)

So thats why I think Poland wasnt so bad for them, just because they choosen to live in Poland not in Germany, France or England. We werent the richest country in Europe, but they have choosen this place to live... WHY? I just think that in those times we were more tolerant than others.

Yes I think thre are antisemits in Poland (like everywhere) but even those twins who are supported by antysmits and natioanlists, aren t rasist

Kaczyski in Israel

Kaczysnki again :

even Dorn one of main faces of PiS (Kaczysnkis party) is jew convertet in to catolic (his wife is catolic and persuaded him to change religion) and he hasnt any problems with that ...

So even on the right side of our political scene there is no place for antysemits.

Our antysemits are rather easy to manipulate, and Kaczysnki just uses them as the tool. He is supported by radom maryja and Trwam, just because he has just to persuade Rydzyk to his party and Rydzyk is persuading the rest of his dumb supporters ...

Giertych who could be consdered as rasist doesnt have big chances to stay in parlament any longer.

And conections between PiS and Radio Maryja should be rather seen as the "real policy" than ally or something like that ...

It shows the origin of flustration of antysemits in Poland (we can see it in this forum)
They can only writte stupid things on internet, and in elections they go to the pools nad vote on US ;-)))))))