Language / "Prześle" - which verb is that? [7]

A good way to find out the infinitive form of verbs, nominative singular of nouns etc, is to look them up at the site sjp.pl

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

The word for "pliers" that I had in mind was "szczypce". ;)

I'm not a native speaker myself, so I don't know the correct answer with 100% certaintly. I hope some native speaker with a good knowledge of grammar can give us the correct answer though. ;)

My best try is:

Matka razem ze swoimi dwoma wujkami, trzema ciotkami i ze swoim piętnaściorgiem młodszego rodzeństwa kupili dwieście pięćdziesięcioro troje szczypiec, czterdzieście pięć par nożyczek i osiemdziesięcioro dwoje sań w dziewięćdziesięciu siedmiu różnych sklepach.

But I might be totally wrong.

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

To straighten out a few question marks:

Should I use "para" about scissors, trousers etc, or should I use the collective numerals? If I say "dwie pary nożyczek", how many tools do I mean exactly?

I was also wondering if it's really correct to use "razem z jej" here. I thought use of the reflexive pronoun "swój" was mandatory in the third person when it refers back to an earlier mentioned subject.

Also I don't get it how it can be correct with "kupiła" since not only the mother, but also the other people were involved in the buying.

Later I will try to make up some even trickier practice exercises. ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Thanks everyone.

Now for the second exercise, although I fear it might be even too convoluted (text within parentheses is not to be translated):

Two men and a woman sitting on a bench in a park reading newspapers were approached by six police officers (of mixed sex) who gave four passers-by (also of mixed sex) an order to tell them what they think about the three people sitting on the bench.

Don't ask me for the correct version of this one. ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Hey, you cheated. :)

It was supposed to be what they think about the "3 people sitting on the bench", not "2 men and a woman". ;) Also you changed the order completely, but maybe it's necessary, I don't know. ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Yeah well, sorry. This was a poor exercise. I will try to make up a better one tomorrow. ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Seanus

I don't think you cheated. ;) Your sentence looks fine to me, but then again, I don't really have much feeling for what's correct in Polish, so I let somebody else be the judge. ;)

Language / Polish masuline singular/plural inanimate nouns and case [8]

Nouns in Polish have 7 cases + plural so a normal Polish noun has 14 different forms (usually some forms share the same declension). The two nouns in your examples are regular male gender nouns. The reason why they differ after different numbers is because different numbers take different cases/number.

1: nominative singular
2-4: nominative plural
5 and above: genitive plural

22-25, 32-35 etc also take nom. pl.

You should read some book that goes through the Polish grammar systematically. Trying to analyze different patterns in Polish without knowing anything about the rules is not going to work well with a complicated language like Polish.

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Ziemowit

Actually, it was my idea that people should use sześcioro and czworgu etc, but since I didn't explicitly state that I have to blame myself. ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Yes, it's true that I stated that the groups were of mixed sex, but I guess "policjantów" isn't technically wrong even if it's more colloquial?

Anyway, what about this wuk/wujek thing? If "wujek" sounds too informal shouldn't "ciotka" sound informal as well? Or am I mixing things up here. Which one of ciocia and ciotka is the diminutive? Hmm...

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Ok, time for some more tricky exercises. ;)

Each question should be translated into gramatically correct and preferably formal Polish. Good luck!

1. If I hadn't wanted to eat on that day two weeks ago, I would never have bought the food.

2. Paweł was thinking about the seven violins.

3. Marek opened one door, not two.

4. The boy ran away with seven fourtythirds (7/43) of the cake.

5. She gave the children a toy each. (This translation has to start with the word "Dała")

Language / How do little children know that they should say "mamo" rather than "mama"? [23]

Interesting. Little children really have a good subconscious sense of grammar.

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

It's also possible to say "dwaj ludzie", "trzej ludzie", etc if it's just men, right?

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

No one feels like giving the latest exercises a shot? ;)

Language / Polish masuline singular/plural inanimate nouns and case [8]

For example, the singular genitive ending can be either "-u" and "-a" even for inanimate masculine nouns. It's "kwiatu" but "nosa".

Several other differences exist as well. If you want to delve deeper into Polish noun declension, you can check out this page:

free.of.pl/g/grzegorj/gram/en/odmiana1.html

Language / How do little children know that they should say "mamo" rather than "mama"? [23]

I never quite understood what's with all the excessive politeness expressions in Polish (and many other languages as well for that matter). If somebody would say "herr professor" in Sweden it would be pure mockery, nothing else. ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

It's gramatically correct, although not idiomatic. Let's just leave it at that, shall we? ;)

Anyway, I find all of this is quite funny. In what other language could there be a discussion on how to say "two people"? :)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

I found this text on some site:

ludzie

W komentarzu do tego hasła autorzy WSPP bezzasadnie piętnują wyrażenie dwaj ludzie. Jest to ocena zarówno szokująca, jak i bezzasadna. Dostrzegają to także autorzy SWK (hasło dwaj, trzej, czterej, str. 84) i podają nawet przykład tytułu filmu Polańskiego: Dwaj ludzie z szafą.

Według WSPP poprawne jest tylko dwóch ludzi, a i to tylko wtedy, gdy mowa wyłącznie o mężczyznach (w przeciwnym wypadku: dwoje ludzi). O ile z tym ograniczeniem można się zgodzić (rzeczowniki oznaczające grupy złożone z przedstawicieli obu płci wymagają liczebników zbiorowych), to już negacja poprawności wyrażenia dwaj ludzie jest bezzasadna, gdyż forma ze składnią dopełniaczową zawsze może zostać zastąpiona przez formę ze składnią mianownikową.

Inaczej mówiąc, jeśli poprawne jest dwóch + D, to poprawne jest zawsze także dwaj + M, np. dwóch braci = dwaj bracia, dwóch przyjaciół = dwaj przyjaciele, dwóch studentów = dwaj studenci. Co więcej, w sytuacji, gdy używamy liczebnika zbiorowego dwoje, nie można w zasadzie użyć ani dwóch + D, ani dwaj + M; dwoje studentów rozumiane jest dziś jako studentka i student, co wyklucza formę dwóch studentów czy dwaj studenci. Stara norma pozwalała mówić dwoje studentów również o dwóch mężczyznach, np. o bliskich kolegach (tak samo mówiono dwoje braci), jednak dziś zwyczaj ten właściwie zanikł. Zamienność dwóch + D na dwaj + M jest więc dziś dokładna i działa w obie strony, a identyczna zasada dotyczy także form trzech / trzej i czterech / czterej. Nie ma potrzeby, by nakładać dziwne restrykcje akurat na połączenia dwaj, trzej, czterej z rzeczownikiem ludzie. Być może są one wynikiem niedopatrzenia autorów powielanego w kolejnych edycjach słownika.

Although I'm not a native speaker and don't really get to vote I have to agree that it stands to reason that if "dwóch ludzi" is correct, then "dwaj", "trzej" etc must also be correct.

Language / How do little children know that they should say "mamo" rather than "mama"? [23]

I can't but help to think that Polish sounds very "obsequious" in this respect. What's really shocking to me, though, is when I hear somebody in his/her twenties call another person around the same age pani/pana. It sounds so completely unnatural in my ears. Could any young person really feel offended by being called "ty"?

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Hmm, seems the pluperfect tense is pretty tricky to translate into Polish. ;)

As for the violins, I believe it should be "myślał o siedmiorgu skrzypiec", but I'm not 100% sure. The rest of those sentences look just fine to me (which unfortunately might not mean all that much). ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]


Well, skrzypce is one of those plural only words like "drzwi". It's "dwoje, troje etc skrzypiec" so shouldn't it then be "o siedmiorgu skrzypiec", strictly grammatically speaking, even though I'm sure it's extremely unusual and probably sounds very weird?

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

After having searched a bit in Google images for "pary nożyczek" I've reached the conclusion that most see "dwie pary" as two tools (my Polish gf included), although, there are a few discrepancies.

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

This thing with "pair" goes for "szczypce", "sanie" etc as well? I suppose there are not all that many of these plural only, non-personal nouns that can't be paired. "Drzwi" and "skrzypce" are the only ones that I can think of. No wonder that even many native speakers have problems with these things. ;)

Language / Polish grammar exercises from hell [130]

Thanks Ziemowit.

As for "sanie" I was a bit confused, becaused I seemed to get more hits for "dwie pary sań" than for "dwoje sań" in Google, but it turned out it was 82 for "dwoje sań" and 47 for "dwie pary sań". I guess people are bound to be confused about such things since it's not exactly every day you would say "two sleighs". ;)

Language / Polish masuline singular/plural inanimate nouns and case [8]

Oops, I meant 22-24, 32-34 etc take nom. pl. of course, not 22-35...

Language / Software to convert my keyboard to polish [13]

Start menu -> ustawienia -> opcje regionalne i językowe

Click on the "klawiatury i języki" tab

Click on "Zmień klawiatury"

Click on Dodaj

When you added Polish, change "Język Domyslny" to Polish so it will run every time you start the computer

That should be all

Travel / Travel: Wrocław-Berlin-Wrocław [10]

Thank you both. I'll be sure to drop by Dworzec Główny and have a look.

On the off-chance that someone is interested...

In the end we learned that train tickets would have cost something like 220 zl per person and direction (bought a week in advance) so instead we managed to find some company going there by minibus instead for 150 zł, even taking us to the place where we were staying. The trip took only around 3.5 hours, so it was not bad.