Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


That's the reason why British detective serials that show country police and country crimes are so popular in Russia that Russian TV central channels show them in prime time on Saturday and Sunday. People love detectives if in the fund such lovely places. No more foreign serials be central Russian TV at all in any day of week (only local TV). Only these one.

As to smth like Sun Hill serial about London police, it is absolutely impopular.
Victorian culture even today and even connected with detective attracts Russians.

History / Are irregulars necessary in former communist states? [14]


That is the challenge I mean.


And what about only 1 per cent? Don't you think 10 per cent reachest have only some 20 percent of that 1%.
In my opinion when any country gives up basing on some 15 % of population by saying it has a common popular regime and 100% popular participation in politics in reality occures that only 0.1% governs?

As in the USA. Nobody abroad is able to explain how can 99.9% of Americans be interested in annual 600 billion dollars for defence of a state separated by oceans from all possible enemies

History / Unban - no, Mocherowy berety - yes. Opinion of a Moskal [20]


He is dead. He was killid last year by Russian Federal forces in Chechnya. I think you wanted to say Zakaev.
Berezovski could be the first suspected but nobody knows how he managed to get polonium

History / Are irregulars necessary in former communist states? [14]


Some objections:
1. Putin is trying to put the state in order (that was also Yeltzin's goal but he only started). But to that is possible only using armed force and law enforcement bodies. They are obliged to defend the state but who will defend country from them? You see tho only force is a mass state militia

2. You write: I am sure such 'militias' do exist there but on the
warlord/Intelligence/mafia level. A portion of exageration I - Russian resident consider - but even if it is so, what to do? There were not only state and mass militias in the USA in the 19 century. Indians, bandits etc. also had militias. And FBI I'm sure have lots of recruted non-salaried without public servant status agents who can also be qualified as militias acting not necessary in favour of Presidential power but also against it (remenber Hoover - do you agree I wrote above?).

What to do? - I repeat asking you.
The only way is the same as it was in epoch of Minutemen - to create a wide state bodies, everybody can (and sometimes must) enter. Or at least not everybody but all of some richest 10-15 percent of population. By fear he will loose reputation in case of ignoring militia and will be unable to succeed in business or public cereer.

Or other militias mentioned by you as well as by me will rule.
3. A crazy idea that middle classers work hard and pay taxes and the rest (police protection military defence) is given to them by centralyzed public servants lead by elected authorities. Sooner or later it occures in each country that

a)those who have force go out of such system and start imposing their desire (the case of police regime in today Russia).
b)Or some politicians lead lumpens to revolutions law enforcement bodies can never prevent by their nature (read Curtio Malaparte - one of the best politologists). That is the situation of Russia of 1917.

c) Some generals or high policemen act as praetorians. They detrone the Head of State they must defend and establish Tyranny (also case of Russia 1917 and of majority of Latin American and African countries.

d) The universal right to vote without any middle and high classes organization takes governments to attempt satisfying all interests. In this case lumpens gain and middle classers loose (situation of today West). In this case the majority of people give up working hard (what for? - the result will be devided between everybody) and become sicial parasites. Not immediately but later.

e) The government isn't active and flexible by fear of results mentioned in points a-d. It ia unable to reduce army by fear of a rebel, to put legal obstacles to secret services by blackmail (see Hoover case), to start serious economic reforms because they are firsi only in interest of some 15 active per cent and the rest of population will feel the results later (after in rebels or government looses elections - depends upon situation but the result is the same).

So you see to be middle classer always means not only to work and pay taxes (and in some countries to spend a perioud in regular army) but also to defend status in group of the similar people.

That was a rule during all World history (high and lesser nobility were irregulars as well as town population and settlers as in early America). Only beginning with Enlightment in 18 century something bevame to change.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I knew such places should be in UK!
You described it in such way that I imagined everything! That is somothing from so loved by me Victorian epoch so respected by many today Russian intellectuals.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

Sorry, I thougt that word exists in English. That is an ancient latin term. It was used in Roman Empire to define poor people who didn't work hard and survived using their status of Roman citizens and social assistance. Despite that dependence upon the society they were quite revolutionary people and it was quite easy to inspire a rebel among them. In Russian this term is widely used. I thought it is also used in English.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

I didn't mention any secret stuff. As do deporting nationals from Russia, do you know figures.
I am discussing only social psychology and the threat os a wide racism among some down classes in Europe. Yes the same thing exists in Russia, but I'm sure human natire, assets and deficiencies are the same all over the world.

In Russia the xenofoby is supporter by poor people. They know they cannot be punished for that. It is very difficult to proove the guilt in Trial and as to rasist reputation it means nothing for those who don't make career or have business.

People don't feel themselves criminals because they know that for example the USA south states had in the 40 the same problems with afroamericans and mexicans despite they had cottages and more cars per capita than today Russia.

As to psychology of impunity and "freedom" of rasist expression for people downstairs, who don't make career or business and don't depend upon high and middle class public opinion, that may seem attractive to many lumpens all over the world. Russia isn't a lonely country in that.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

I'm sure each state should admit only the tolerance it is able to defend strongly.
Imagive that rasist ideas becomes too popular in the down classes of the society? What shall you do? Persuade the people sure that everithing in the country belongs to them only (the main idea of today social policy)?

Make police start a rasist hunt. But it is quite uneasy to the policemen arrest rasists when they can't cope with ilegals. Besides that the families of the policemen who have successes in rasist persecution may become known via Internet and their children at schools may be persecuted by their classmates. Nobody will risk his children.

You think rasists can be sent to prisons if some millions of such people appear (a realistic prospect in some circumstances)? Are there enough prisons. Do you think it is possible to depart rasists from their native countries as sometimes ilegals are departed?

For today European states cannot resist a rasist blow. So the only way is not to give reasons for agravation. The politics is the art of possible

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

Russia is a very interesting country. After many years of communism and 10 years of liberast (not liberal one) rule it becomes every day more bonita

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I want to visit Espana because I can speak Spanis and love your Motherland. I want to visit other EU countries. As tourist of course or as visitor of my friends.

I'm ready to make a deposit for a possible deportation and to give mi fingerprint and other necessari biometrical dates. But I don't want to ask for visa every time I come in EU and suffer quite a himillating presedure in embassies that are looking for ilegals all over the world.

Besides that I'm indignated by such procedure of receiving a visa to go by car from Russia to Russia (case of Kaliningrad region, East Prussia) throught Lithuania. Such difficulties were inpossible for West Europeans even during the existence of West Berlin and communist East Germany.


Of course not. Yur aren't against people of other ethnies. As to differences between citizens and foreigners, some discrimination is not only possible but sometimes even necessary (Right to Elect parlament for example).

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I wish I lived in Russia the rest of my life. See slavs usually spend some years abroad but then they have a desire to return. Many Poles also return home.

But as to ilegals in general, I have never heard Spanish government as well as other EU governments have a clear concept of imigration policy.

I seems to me sometimes that only Swiss state has sometimes an adecuate approach to foreigners as well as a good local and in mani cases volunteer controle over imigrants. But it is not a EU country

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


The same thing:
You are talking of what but nothing about HOW
Well, some facts - you are offered to oppose:
1. Ilegal doesn't mean underground and secret. Local public servants if they know nothing about him that only means the don't want to know that. Sometimes thay say it is difficult and expensive to depart ilegals but no proposals of admitting in EU only people who have deposited money for their possible departure and who presented their fingerprints. No ideas of the sort despite its evident efficency. But the EU supports hard and expensive work with visas.

2. Ilegal imigration should be a crime. If anybody penetrates ilegally he should be sentenced to prison. If he tells his name and his relatives collect money for departure, well he becomes free earlier.

Why it is not so?

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I understand these emotions. I could be also indignated. Although it seemd to me that such standarts for foreigners are sometimes quite ilogocal also for native people. I don't think anybody should be payed for children, and as to social policy in EU in general, its provisions concerning the native residents also don't contribute to those who work more and more active.

The point is that methods how to separate a util part of imigrants are required. Not only desires.


But I'm trying to explain him that immigration system and its deficiencies are favourable only for such kind of imigrants

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

Espana look,

Hard workers and in foture good members of society from East European countries can arrive only if the are admitted to work in respectable companies that pay taxes, give money to pension and medical fund and also have obligations according to labour legislation. Such people are ready to receive much less than Spanish citizens but they want their work is secure.

For now only prostitutes and some people looking for adventures can leave for Spain. In Russia for example hunger threat doesn't exist now and a respectable worker won't look for adventures abroad.

That's the reason why Espana has an image of smth like Latin America in 16 century, i.e. place for adventures.

It's well known that one cannot make a secret he has underground workers from local public servants. Why don't they notice? Why such businessmen aren't punished? Because first the corruption and second Spain doesn't still has an approach to immigration policy. On the one hand people are frightened by ilegals. On the other economy requires a rightless worker. Why There are so many ilegals from abroad EU while many people from Romania and Bulgaria a looking for job? Because these people have rights and can work legally and ilegals are more profitable


It seems to be the same thing. Sometimes.
Well give another explanation of challenges mentioned above

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I'm sure there are many people of the sort for example in the West Ukraine. They are good workers and their culture is more similar to Spanish one than some from other continents.

But Spain doesn't have such approach to immigration that can permit a separation between those who can work hard and those who come only for parasitism. They all are quolified as illegals, those who work hard are victims os underground business without taxes for Spain and security and human rights for foreigners.

There are still no responsable recruiting companies that can select workers abroad and have registration in colsulates ans supervised by diplomates. There are no strong recruiting bodies that can give quality garantees to Spain and to the foreigners if they are convenient.

Many businessman in Spain are interested in ilegal workers without rights and in their tax free work. And the fact that different supervising state bodies don't notice such violations signify first the corruption on local authorities level and second the fact that Spanish society have many rights but for business and prosperity rightless people are still required.


What is your opinion on mechanism that can make such separation possible?
Cual es en tu opinion el mecanismo que permita elegir precisamente este tipo de mano de obra?

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

What is your opinion on workers from Ucrania and Belarus now widely involved into housing construction in Spain. Do you consider restrictions of this community should be more or less? Visite a Espana dos veces como turista pero ya hace mucho tiempo. Que pais bonito pero en verano no pude acostumarme al abuso del aire acondicionado y siempre andaba resfriado.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

I think EU acts in a right way if it creates a special Immigration bank and every man outside EU deposits some amount of money. If he violates rules this money will cover his deportation and law-enforcement bodies activities connected with that. If no, he can visit EU mare and more without any visa. Fingerprints internet base is also required.

It is uneasy to understand EU oficials logic. They ignore all new technologies and progressive methods. Only hard works of Consulates abroad and powerless police activities.


The point is that foreigners from out of EU you describe suffer from those who came only to consume social assistance.
The are treeted as if they are like that lumpens. Because public doesn't often try to distinguish immigrants.
It was quite humoristic to listen about Paris immigrant children who put cars into fire. Frenchmen discussed the lack of sympathy towars imigrants the lack of attention that made them criminals. French society is guilty...

But there are many imigrants from the same arab countries who worked hard, achieved middle class status, live away from social residence and have good friends among respectable native Frenchmen. Their children study hard and respect French values and order in the society.

They had the same start. They are the example for the others. And also the accusation.
But nobody in France seemed to mention them. Everybody seemed to discuss victims of social injustice i.e. criminals.

By the way, are there many unconvenient foreigners, lumpens and criminals among those who receivet citizenship following military service in French Foreign Legion or Spanish army or any other EU army. It seems to me that people who payed for his new citizenship by yard military service wille never return to any ethnical community in his new motherland and he is more patriotic and aimed to enter a middle class and marry a native woman.

Do you know anything about that?

History / Are irregulars necessary in former communist states? [14]


A brilliant idea. That was in this way in majority of states.
But don't forget:
A centralyzed armed structure may also establish its own tyranny detroning Supreme power or al least govern over it blackmailing and threatening.
That was also the reason why Founding Fathers gave up constructing a powerfil regular army. That was openly stated in works of Jeferson and Madison.

Pay attention: United police doesn't exist in the USA till now.
By the same fear. The posterior events demonstrated the fear wasn't a silly thing. When the first federal law-enforcement structure FBI (with very reduced tasks by the way) was created, its second chief Hoover managed to lead it during nearly 50 years because no President had power to dismiss him. He blackmailed them all and all their groups by information he took in service. Although Hoover had more deficiencies and maybe even crimes to be accused. He was gay, he had suspicious contacts with mafia and he defended some mafia leaders. He may be also suspected of being Soviet Spy because the communist hunt began by the initiative not FBI but House unamerican activities committee and FBI also followed HUAC when it seemed impossible not to react.

That is another evidence of pretorian syndrome in centralyzed regular armed or secret structures. The only reason why Hoover gave up thinking about becoming a USA President in 1938 was a possible opposition of decentralyzed police servants of different states. No ideas about honest competition with other candidates. He could blackmail anybody and a man in the street could vote in favour being convinced Hoover was the best man. You see Founding Fathers were right desentralising police and army. I'm afraid now Internal security body becomes a stronger Hoover.


When US government grew more tyranical? In 1800? In 1830? In 1850? I think you don't notice real tyrannies such as communist one in the former Soviet Union. Everything started in our land after a pretorian detronement of King and the rejection of his son. As to communists they came some mounths later. Before such praetorian rebel they were unable to do anything by being weak and not numerous. Generals and public servants were those who made revolution in 1917. The unexistence of irregulars was one of the reasons King and middle classers could defend Russia.


I'm sure that confirmes the idea middle class requires its own irregular army. And domestic one. Not a reserve of regular army in Iraq.

But the subordination of National Guard to a marasmatic Pentagon isn't the idea of Founding Fathers I mentioned as example for post communist countries. That marasmatic idea was invented by some regular military perverts I suppose at the beginning of 20 century and testen (unsuccessfully) doring the punishment of Pancho Villa detachment. The first 120 years militias were used in right way.


We are discussing not private criminal or ideologic militias.
State militia only. The militia compulsory for every settled citizen (in 19 century USA the middle and high classes) or nesessary for reputation of all people beginning from some level (the level of rich middle class) and not necessary but opened for all active people.

That is the Founding Fathers thought about. If every middle classer participates, what kind of crime (shall they rob their own property?) is possible? What kind of extremism (No countries with state irregular troops where extremism came to power - I didn't manage to find even one).

I wish you answered and other people participated

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


Internet is absolutely free.
Newspapers are free but most of them require money and now they are going to loose battle with internet mass-media.
TV is more free than in Communist epoch and on the same level it was in 90. In 90 TV was owned be some oligarchs and now it came to different state supervisors. The same liberty as well as its lack.

I noticed some reasons TV freedom is not improved yet but don't pay attention only to the first one:
1. State interfirence.
2. The unexistence of bipartisan political system as in UK. It is only in creation.
3. TV is for millions and it depends upon their ideas. Nobody will be glad to watch marginal dissidents groups and listen to their ideas (Kasianov and Kasparov etc. are smth like British communist party for British people in the 70-80). As to pluralism in general it is still represented on TV (soft nationalists vs. great nationalists). The deficiencies of today TV may appear later, in some 2-3 years when public will feel itself insatisfied.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


1. Some of them are living in communities that are not transparent and that helps them to commit crimes, in many cases against their compatriots here.

2. there are season criminals among them. They come to steal and return after making a crime. Police fiunds it uneasy to catch them.
3. Although there is a great corruption besides ilegals they manage to corrupt public servants even more. Local authorities and businessmen seem to be interested in foreigners more because they can't use their Human Rights.

But pay attention: I'm not against immigration. I am immigration widening in Russia. The point is that we should use good metodics of immigrants admission.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


That's so. We the Russians are very frightened by imigrants from Central Asia and Caucasus but we often don't know details. We don't know even an appoximate percentage of season imigrants who come, gain and return to their families and the percentage of ilegals who is going to stay forever

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

I'm wrong. No one can express emotions if facts are required

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I'm the strong opposer of Chinese wall tentation i/e/ the desire to guard a fronteer strongly in order to prevent penetration. That is an expensive and unefficient measure. Each ilegal should be seized in locations. That is more efficient way

Besides that a strict controle in residential sector will permit to without separated costs cope with lumpens and criminals and drug depending people that aren't criminals


In my opinion the mere fact of living ilegally is a crime.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


away guy,
I shall oppose to such method. It is practicized widely in Russia but the result is only the corruption of patrol police. Nothing more.
I'm sure such ilegals are most vulnerable in places they live. If you controle residential sector, every street every house, sooner or later you will clean all the country. Look, police patrol will never be punished he didn't arrest an ilegal. Nobody knows there was such meeting. But if you are a landlord or any irregular home police officer, it is always easier to prove you have given a shelter to suspicious persons or at least haven't notice smth evident

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

A Home Guard as during WWII is required in EU. It was the strongest obstacle against Nazi spies and commandos penetration. Itey will be able to cope with ilegals controlling each street

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I wonder in our epoch the electronics can register everybody and one can be always detected even if he doesn't have documents, in case it is possible to oblige each visitor to put some USD 700 in a possible EU immigraton bank in order to cover his possible departition, EU is still discussing visa and other type of problems. That seems to be an obsolete approach. What are the reasons in your opinion?

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


I think season workers who arrive for some muonths gain money and return homes aren't so dangerous. But it occures that many of them prefer becoming ilegals later.

I think the reasons are: The lack of respounsable recruiting services abroad that can pay for possible deportation and compensate damage in general. Besides that a hostile activities of some businessman who employee such people and a corruption in police.

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]

As to alcohol depending people I thought about Polish citizens Grzegorz mentioned. Polish citizen if he is adle to work and if he is disciplined by one way or another can find a place ti live and work although the salary may be low. He can also leave for other EU states. That's the reason alcohol or drug dependence is suspected.

As to ilegals, that's the point. Polish government is going to give legality to foreign house construction workers, and as to people who are not going to work hard in Poland, they prefer ilegal status in Germany to legal one in Poland. The example are Chechens. They have many possibilities to stay in Poland and to receive a legal work but the majority leaves ilegally for Germany and Holland

Life / Will Poland become like the UK ? [93]


Do they have problems with alcohol or drugs and many of them are former prisoners for crime as it is in Russia?

History / Poland-Russia: never-ending story? [1341]


You see I am still ignorant