Unban - no, Mocherowy berety - yes. Opinion of a Moskal

Unfortunately there are narrow-minded people in Russia that quote, show by TV and organize internet-conferences with Jerzy Urban, editor of Nie newspaper.
I'm watching one of his conferences now.
What a silly idea to give auditorium to each people criticyzing Polish attitude toward Russia.
Generally I support Russian official today posicion in collision with Poland exept some peculiar things.
But I'll never support those who use as traveller fellows people who in my opinion ironizes in case of Catholic Church and Polish patriotism.

That is quite a cynical position. There are many Poles who understand Russians and don't laugh at Polish values, such as A. de Lazari. Why not represent oftenly such people.

No reasons for Urban publicity in Russia. More interest for Russians to listen to mocherowy berety. There are closer to Russians despite their rusofoby
I want Poles to know the majority of Russians could say the same thing if they read Urben wrote about Polish Values.

Urban is trash.

I don't think it is a good manner offending trash comparing it with Urban's activities.
Polish mass media also make publisity of Russian trash, Russian liberasts

But that's nothing unusual. It often happens that when there are some problems between 2 countries, people in each of them are desperately trying to find someone from that other one, who is criticizing his own country's position and make him look like some star, while often he/she is almost unknown in own coutry.


True.


True too.

truhlei, what do you think of the situation between England and Russia at the moment??

The main point for today is Litvinenko case.
I'll mention some facts and you will oppose me when I'm wrong.
1. Litvinenko was poisoned by polonium, that can be produced only in special and closed centers. That means that Lugovoy if his is guilty isn't alone: there are some influential forces behind him if he is murderer. If he is not guilty, well such forces still participated in the crime.

2. The goal was to make everybody knew that Litvinenko was killed by a strong clan. It is clear that sooner or later Patalogoanatomists could determine the reason of Litvinenko death. I shall reject all versions that polonium is a great secret poison nobodi is able to find . In some African province maybe yes but in Great Britain when such person dies and radioactive reason is evident as the only one sooner or later polonium is suspected. It was found quickli by chance, but don't forget: for 4 mounths polonium is active. My conclusion: the guilty clan planned the the public reaction beforehand and was interested in that.

3. It was not the murder in order to punish Litvinenko or fright other Litvinenkos. For that an ordinary murder was sufficient. All dissidents could understand the danger but of the murder it was quite possible to accuse smbd. else like Berezovski's.

4. President Putin was absolutely unintrested in such murder. He has a great raiting in Russia and Russians are ready to elect a man he chooses or to support the changes in Constitution that permit his third period. He doesn't need any conflict with the West to gain popularity.

5. So only two clans were interested in that:
An strong Russian clan that is interested in confrontation with the West militarization of Russia and putting today President and thu future one in dependence of enforcement bodies. IOf in this case Lugovoy isn't in prison yet, that means: authorities don't have enough force to fight against such clan.

The second suspected is a plot in the West that is also interested in European Union confrontation with different countries in order to keep popular attention away from EU problems.

The point is that independently upon the guilty part we can state only one thing They have achieved their main goal. Relations became worse.
I'm sure that was made against Putin and the future president

1. Russian reaction:
Lugovoy can't be extradicted. Russian Constitution doesn't permit extradition of Russian citizens. That's a dry fact. But I'll add that it is a Constitution of 1993. It was admitted following the confrontation with last Russian Parlament elected yet during Soviet Parlament. Before constitutional reforms it was dismissed and reacted by President Eltsyn's detronement. That confrontation ended with Parlament's bombing by tanks. approximately 150 victims of people who came to defend dismissed power. Only after that a democratic constitution became possible. Now I support President Yelzin but not in that moment (I was ia witness of that bombing). I tell that in order to give you a knowledge, that such Constitution establisher in such way can't be openly violated following British demand. Nobody will understand that in Russia. By the way that Contitution and especially Human and Citizen Right articles were strongly approved by British Government in 1993.

British position: diplomate case is adecuate. Government has to react and to tell people about some measures.
To stop conversations on visas is inadecuate. That supports the plot's mill with water. The possibility to travel to Europe is the only thing that connects today Russians with EU. The possibility to spend vacations looking at Big Ben, drinking beer in Munich etc. No other interest. Only Gas selling and money receiving. If visas persist, Russians will give up contacting with Europe at all because there are many other out of visas countries they may travel. So that will signify the compleet separation of Russian middle class from EU and posterior sonfrontatiopn, the goal planned by those who organized Litvinenko murder.

Did you hear about the the Russian planes flying into British air space?

Also kicking out our diplomats is not really the way to go, but if Russia doesnt mind being removed from visiting the EU thats fine but Im sure all the Russians enjoying life in the UK would dissagree, but hey!

Neither Great Britain nor Eu in general can now blackmail Russian authorities. It is more impossible than in case of Soviet Union. Soviet Union was military stronger but it had many vulnerable "friends" in different continents. Its ideology was expansionist and it was impossible to loose even one sphere of influence.

Russia today is defending. Today ideology is not so expansionist. Now it is an ideology of persecuted Nation. For such state it is not dangerous to loose any sphere abroad or even a separatist region within: that only confirmes the thesis of persecution. As to Russia in general it is nor Kosovo or even Iraq it is a strong state nobody can occupy or even isolate.

So the only policy is to propose smth interesting to the upper classes and inevitably to the man in the street. As to proposals. the West in general doesn't have any. The only thing now is to open fronteers because from Russia as from Brasil few people can emigrate (they live only for megapolis within the state). But this process is stopped be British government


Do you really think they lost smth there?


Very few people in Russia are anxious about them

I don't think they lost anything, but I think if they do it again they might do :)


Nothing to be anxious about, we're very civilised in the UK and I dont think that we're going to start deporting people just yet

Russian people in general aren't interested in ilegal imigration because they have rich megapolis within the state

sorry I dont quite understand can you explain please.

No secrets interesting to Russian air intelligence in Great Britain. No interests to provoke British Government. It could be interesting if some people in Russia loved EU and it was necessari to show them that EU is unfriendly and there are absurd accusations. But Russia doesn't have too many people who "adore" West Europe. That was in the Soviet Union when the West was attractive. Now people are offended by the West but have an utilitarian approach. Exept those who love some western cultures. I for example love Victorian England? volunteer courps and Home Guard

If a Russian is from a poor town or village he usually don't go to other countries to gain money (exept scientists, artists etc. and prostitutes). He leaves for Moscow, Saint Petersbourg some petroleun regions. He is not ilegal there and his salary may be higher than in West Europe for iligal workers.

RAF fighter jets were scrambled to intercept two Russian strategic bombers heading for British airspace yesterday, as the spirit of the Cold War returned to the North Atlantic once again.

The incident, described as rare by the RAF, served as a telling metaphor for the stand-off between London and Moscow over the murder of Alexander Litvinenko.

While the Kremlin hesitated before responding to Britain’s expulsion of four diplomats, the Russian military engaged in some old-fashioned sabre-rattling.

Two Tu95 “Bear” bombers were dispatched from their base on the Kola Peninsula in the Arctic Circle and headed towards British airspace. Russian military aircraft based near the northern port city of Murmansk fly patrols off the Norwegian coast regularly, but the RAF said that it was highly unusual for them to stray as far south as Scotland.

Two Tornado fighters, part of the RAF’s Quick Reaction Alert, took off from RAF Leeming, in Yorkshire, to confront the Russian aircraft, after they were shadowed by two F16s from the Royal Norwegian Air Force, The Times has learnt.

“The Russians turned back before they reached British airspace,” an RAF spokesman said.

There was no evidence to suggest that the incident was connected with the diplomatic row over the extradition of Andrei Lugovoy, the main suspect in the murder of Litvinenko.

The war of nerves...
I wish it weren't so.
But to tell you the truth I don't feel danger. My intuition doesn't mean much I know, but...

Me either, maybe another cold war embargos and such like, who knows.

Russians aren't interested in a cold war that may require money for arms race. As to soft cold wars it is possible because for today only gas selling (not interrupted by a cold war) connects Russia with EU. Russians don't feel they loose anything in case of such situation.


I read some Russian articles on this subject. Militars inform they don't penetrate into British space. Tnay have training flights over the ocean and that is similar NATO planes do along the fronteer Russia - EU for 3 years.

Boris Berezovsky, the 'oligarch' is at the root of the whole Litvinenko affair...the Russians
have asked the UK gov't to extradite him & also Basayev, the Chechen gangster, back
to Russia to face charges of treason, murder, embezellment etc...the British refuse this...
this is because the Rothschild/Zionist clique rule the UK & Tony Blair & now Gordon Brown are their employees...so,Putin says, 'go to hell!'...if you read history, you know that the Rothschild, along with their next door neighbors from Frankfort, the Schiff family

bankrolled the Bolsheviks in Russia...Putin knows this, and is on top of the situation, at
least for now.

He is dead. He was killid last year by Russian Federal forces in Chechnya. I think you wanted to say Zakaev.
Berezovski could be the first suspected but nobody knows how he managed to get polonium

Yes, I meant Zakaev...the polonium could be obtained on the black market, through any
of the Intelligence services or their 'partners'...but of course, the Western media will
point to the Russians as the source, but there is no proof of this...of course, 'evidence'
can also be manufactured...it is interesting, in this same vein, that a certain 'Dr.' Henry
Kissinger, along w/other global heavyweights such as George Schultz, met with Putin
last week in Moscow...this meeting was not reported by any major media source in the US...supposedly, Putin had a 'frank' discussion with these 'gentlemen' whose purpose

was to intimidate him...in Russian parlance a 'frank' discussion usually means that the
Russians tell the other party 'go to hell'.

Grzegorz and others!
Do you know any summary of Urbans ideas offending Church< Pontific and Polish History? With sources.
It should be known in countries he is promoted