Piorun
4 Jul 2009
Piorun
4 Jul 2009
Life / What really represents Polish people? What would be the symbol of Poland... [51]
Look, I'm not suggesting you should use a religious symbol as a symbol of Poland, that would be preposterous. That certainly was not my intention. Personally I would not use one either, there are plenty of other symbols to choose from that are far more suitable for that sort of purpose. I was merely explaining that it's not unheard of. My comments were in response to Switeziankas post. I'm sure you will make an appropriate choice. I just have one small request - share it with us.
MoOoM
Look, I'm not suggesting you should use a religious symbol as a symbol of Poland, that would be preposterous. That certainly was not my intention. Personally I would not use one either, there are plenty of other symbols to choose from that are far more suitable for that sort of purpose. I was merely explaining that it's not unheard of. My comments were in response to Switeziankas post. I'm sure you will make an appropriate choice. I just have one small request - share it with us.
Piorun
2 Jul 2009
Life / What really represents Polish people? What would be the symbol of Poland... [51]
Poland has been a "Catholic country" since its very beginning as the nation, ever since Mieszko was baptised in 966, this event was also known as the baptism of Poland and nothing has changed ever since. For you to state otherwise is just false. People of other faiths lived in Poland and were free to practice their religion including Jews. This fact shows us that it's not the religion itself that causes the tensions but the intolerant people who just can't stand the fact that someone, somewhere might be of a different opinion then themselves. This holds true to the people of faith as well as those that do not practice any religion. As far as I know atheists consist of a very small percentage of Polish population. Although you're obviously of a different opinion the fact remains that the majority of people will disagree with you and state that religious symbol is appropriate to represent Poles therefore Poland itself, especially the image of MB Częstochowskiej. As for Poland being almost a 100% Catholic after WWII you have no one else to blame but yourself. Allow me to explain. In your zeal and vigour to impose the communist utopia, it was the communist atheists that have shifted the borders, forced resettlement on local populations ensuring that only one ethnicity and one religion exists.
The practice of the coronation of the image of NMP started in Italy with Hieronim Paolucci in 1620.
Mary of Częstochowa is a Queen of Poland for a very long time. The coronation of the image took place in 1717. Ever since than till WWII, there were 196 other coronations of the image that took place in Poland giving an average of 1 every 1.16 years. After WWII there were only three such events, one in 1981, 1985 and 1995. As you can see for yourself Poland was very tolerant nation in terms of practising one's religion indeed till WWII. After the atheists took over all that has stopped and this practice was only allowed at the end of their stay in power, after the Solidarity movement, when it finally dawned on them that the majority don't share their ideology and simply oppose them and their days are numbered. During this period you will find many examples of the religious symbols used as the symbol of solidarity, opposition and like it or not of Poland. Do you think the Black Madonna image on the gates to the shipyard was there just for decoration? The wooden cross that stood on the spot that the first fatality of the 1970 strike took place in front of the gate to the shipyard with a sign “Walka o wolność... Gdy się raz zaczyna, dziedzictwem z ojca przechodzi na syna. Sto razy wrogów, złamana plagą, skończy zwycięstwem…” What was it doing there? Was it not a powerful political symbol? Representing those that believed in Catholic faith and those that did not alike? These are just two of the most recent examples. Religious symbols were always used by the Poles throughout our history.
Yes Polish Jews lived and still live in the land where Our Lady of Częstochowa reigns supreme as Queen of Poland, be it prior to WWII or even after WWII. Although you think that religious symbols are not a good choice, the majority of people will disagree with you. There is no such thing as 100% agreement on anything, that sort of thing only happens in communism. Not everyone has to agree on something or someone to be still represented by them, therefore whoever wins the election by majority has the right to represent the country as a whole, he represents all, the ones that voted for him as well as those that opposed him. Even during the Polish multicultural state somehow it was all so obvious to all those Catholics, Calvinists, Atheists, Jews and others, that if they give their neighbour the freedom to practice their faith they will extend the same courtesy to the people of other faith and unbelievers alike. The problems start when minority wants to impose their will on majority, not just on religious issues but all other social issues as well.
Poland has been a "Catholic country" since its very beginning as the nation, ever since Mieszko was baptised in 966, this event was also known as the baptism of Poland and nothing has changed ever since. For you to state otherwise is just false. People of other faiths lived in Poland and were free to practice their religion including Jews. This fact shows us that it's not the religion itself that causes the tensions but the intolerant people who just can't stand the fact that someone, somewhere might be of a different opinion then themselves. This holds true to the people of faith as well as those that do not practice any religion. As far as I know atheists consist of a very small percentage of Polish population. Although you're obviously of a different opinion the fact remains that the majority of people will disagree with you and state that religious symbol is appropriate to represent Poles therefore Poland itself, especially the image of MB Częstochowskiej. As for Poland being almost a 100% Catholic after WWII you have no one else to blame but yourself. Allow me to explain. In your zeal and vigour to impose the communist utopia, it was the communist atheists that have shifted the borders, forced resettlement on local populations ensuring that only one ethnicity and one religion exists.
The practice of the coronation of the image of NMP started in Italy with Hieronim Paolucci in 1620.
Mary of Częstochowa is a Queen of Poland for a very long time. The coronation of the image took place in 1717. Ever since than till WWII, there were 196 other coronations of the image that took place in Poland giving an average of 1 every 1.16 years. After WWII there were only three such events, one in 1981, 1985 and 1995. As you can see for yourself Poland was very tolerant nation in terms of practising one's religion indeed till WWII. After the atheists took over all that has stopped and this practice was only allowed at the end of their stay in power, after the Solidarity movement, when it finally dawned on them that the majority don't share their ideology and simply oppose them and their days are numbered. During this period you will find many examples of the religious symbols used as the symbol of solidarity, opposition and like it or not of Poland. Do you think the Black Madonna image on the gates to the shipyard was there just for decoration? The wooden cross that stood on the spot that the first fatality of the 1970 strike took place in front of the gate to the shipyard with a sign “Walka o wolność... Gdy się raz zaczyna, dziedzictwem z ojca przechodzi na syna. Sto razy wrogów, złamana plagą, skończy zwycięstwem…” What was it doing there? Was it not a powerful political symbol? Representing those that believed in Catholic faith and those that did not alike? These are just two of the most recent examples. Religious symbols were always used by the Poles throughout our history.
Yes Polish Jews lived and still live in the land where Our Lady of Częstochowa reigns supreme as Queen of Poland, be it prior to WWII or even after WWII. Although you think that religious symbols are not a good choice, the majority of people will disagree with you. There is no such thing as 100% agreement on anything, that sort of thing only happens in communism. Not everyone has to agree on something or someone to be still represented by them, therefore whoever wins the election by majority has the right to represent the country as a whole, he represents all, the ones that voted for him as well as those that opposed him. Even during the Polish multicultural state somehow it was all so obvious to all those Catholics, Calvinists, Atheists, Jews and others, that if they give their neighbour the freedom to practice their faith they will extend the same courtesy to the people of other faith and unbelievers alike. The problems start when minority wants to impose their will on majority, not just on religious issues but all other social issues as well.
Piorun
1 Jul 2009
Life / What really represents Polish people? What would be the symbol of Poland... [51]
Szczerbiec - Polish Kings Coronation Sword
Bocian (Stork) – good luck symbol, also a symbol of polish countryside.
Wycinanki łowickie (paper-cut artwork) – symbol of polish folk art
Bursztyn (amber) – excellent symbol of Poland. For ancient Slavs it was a magical stone, wearing it protected the wearer from illness and evil. Wearing an amber for the Kashubian people meant successful hunt and safe return from the sea voyage.
Ciupaga - symbol Podhala one of the first gifts received by Pope John Paul II after his election for a reason.
Lajkonik - unofficial symbols of Krakow, one might say a postcard for the city of Kraków, a symbol of victory.
Kolumna Zygmunta (Sigismund's Column) - The column commemorates King Zygmunt III Waza, who had moved Poland's capital from Kraków to Warsaw.
These are just a few examples of the lesser known symbols of Poland. Those objects might not be associated with Poland by a foreigner, but anyone who is Polish would immediately think of Poland.
frd
Weird that you had to attack that one particular symbol. Like it or not even during the darkest days of communism there was organized pilgrimage to that site annually. Atheist like yourself not only had to allow it but they had to recognize the fact that for majority of Poles She is the symbol of Poland. Please enlighten us one more time, Who's intolerant?
Szczerbiec - Polish Kings Coronation Sword
Bocian (Stork) – good luck symbol, also a symbol of polish countryside.
Wycinanki łowickie (paper-cut artwork) – symbol of polish folk art
Bursztyn (amber) – excellent symbol of Poland. For ancient Slavs it was a magical stone, wearing it protected the wearer from illness and evil. Wearing an amber for the Kashubian people meant successful hunt and safe return from the sea voyage.
Ciupaga - symbol Podhala one of the first gifts received by Pope John Paul II after his election for a reason.
Lajkonik - unofficial symbols of Krakow, one might say a postcard for the city of Kraków, a symbol of victory.
Kolumna Zygmunta (Sigismund's Column) - The column commemorates King Zygmunt III Waza, who had moved Poland's capital from Kraków to Warsaw.
These are just a few examples of the lesser known symbols of Poland. Those objects might not be associated with Poland by a foreigner, but anyone who is Polish would immediately think of Poland.
frd
Weird that you had to attack that one particular symbol. Like it or not even during the darkest days of communism there was organized pilgrimage to that site annually. Atheist like yourself not only had to allow it but they had to recognize the fact that for majority of Poles She is the symbol of Poland. Please enlighten us one more time, Who's intolerant?
Piorun
29 Jun 2009
Travel / Sailing by ferry to and from Poland. Ferries between Poland and Sweden [7]
It seems that someone have read this thread and took your original idea seriously. London to Olsztyn, 2725 km on a bicycle.
I had the idea after joking about cycling to Poland. I realised the idea might not be so crazy after my brother told me about his bicycle journeys from Prague to Vienna
It seems that someone have read this thread and took your original idea seriously. London to Olsztyn, 2725 km on a bicycle.
Piorun
26 Jun 2009
History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]
Stalin had objected to a Polish presence at the ceremonies, and his wishes were obeyed by the British Bulldog, who was afraid of offending his master.
Here's an interesting historical fact for you.
It's not what happened at the parade, that's just a symbol for the injustice and humiliation we had to endure from our so called friends and allies. With a new geopolitical reality setting over Europe at that time, that was one thing that Britain could have done with honor and at the very least show the appreciation to the soldiers who fought for her freedom regardless of the politics but you chose not to. What was Anthony Eden's pledge to the Polish troops as they arrived in England after the fall of France.“We shall not abandon your sacred cause and shall continue this war until your beloved country be returned to her faithful sons.” Translation (F**k your country as long as mine is saved what I have just said can be considered a motivational speech) or Churchill for that matter when he said "We shall conquer together or we shall die together". Translation (You die for us and we shall see what scraps should be given to you, if any). All just a bunch of empty rhetoric. Words spoken by true politicians, with passion but no real conviction behind them or intention of ever keeping the promise. I must admit as a representative of the British you do uphold the standards set forth to you by your predecessors very well indeed. These things will repeat over and over, again and again as long as there are people like you Harry who will do anything possible to deny the truth and hide behind some pathetic excuse that only make sense to the guilty mind, no surprise really taking into account all the other nonsense you wrote about Poland on this forum.
Stalin had objected to a Polish presence at the ceremonies, and his wishes were obeyed by the British Bulldog, who was afraid of offending his master.
Either you have no interest in historical fact or your interest in lying is far stronger, which is it?
Here's an interesting historical fact for you.
It's not what happened at the parade, that's just a symbol for the injustice and humiliation we had to endure from our so called friends and allies. With a new geopolitical reality setting over Europe at that time, that was one thing that Britain could have done with honor and at the very least show the appreciation to the soldiers who fought for her freedom regardless of the politics but you chose not to. What was Anthony Eden's pledge to the Polish troops as they arrived in England after the fall of France.“We shall not abandon your sacred cause and shall continue this war until your beloved country be returned to her faithful sons.” Translation (F**k your country as long as mine is saved what I have just said can be considered a motivational speech) or Churchill for that matter when he said "We shall conquer together or we shall die together". Translation (You die for us and we shall see what scraps should be given to you, if any). All just a bunch of empty rhetoric. Words spoken by true politicians, with passion but no real conviction behind them or intention of ever keeping the promise. I must admit as a representative of the British you do uphold the standards set forth to you by your predecessors very well indeed. These things will repeat over and over, again and again as long as there are people like you Harry who will do anything possible to deny the truth and hide behind some pathetic excuse that only make sense to the guilty mind, no surprise really taking into account all the other nonsense you wrote about Poland on this forum.
Piorun
26 Jun 2009
History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]
Let me see how well you describe yourself, twist the facts to fit your point of view and refuse to see the truth.
Was Mexico represented? Was Mexico a Commonwealth/Empire force? Or Allied air-forces?
The only Mexican Air Force unit that I'm aware of to serve overseas during World War II was the Aztec Eagles, they fought to liberate the Philippines never flew over Europe.
Same question for Argentina? which declared war on Germany and Japan when the war was all but over. To be fair, over 750 Argentine volunteers fought in the British, South African and Canadian Air Forces. So according to your statement they should have bee represented by the above mentioned countries. You see Harry its you that is a liar. How both of those countries be represented in the victory parade and not meeting the criteria of not needing the official invitation? The answer should be simple enough even for you Harry, it's because they were extended the invitation and what you have wrote is just one big lie. Either your logic is failing you or You lie which is it?
you're still a liar
Let me see how well you describe yourself, twist the facts to fit your point of view and refuse to see the truth.
it was a parade for Commonwealth/Empire forces and Allied airforces.
Was Mexico represented? Was Mexico a Commonwealth/Empire force? Or Allied air-forces?
The only Mexican Air Force unit that I'm aware of to serve overseas during World War II was the Aztec Eagles, they fought to liberate the Philippines never flew over Europe.
Same question for Argentina? which declared war on Germany and Japan when the war was all but over. To be fair, over 750 Argentine volunteers fought in the British, South African and Canadian Air Forces. So according to your statement they should have bee represented by the above mentioned countries. You see Harry its you that is a liar. How both of those countries be represented in the victory parade and not meeting the criteria of not needing the official invitation? The answer should be simple enough even for you Harry, it's because they were extended the invitation and what you have wrote is just one big lie. Either your logic is failing you or You lie which is it?
Piorun
25 Jun 2009
History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]
So according to you the Polish Armed Forces in the West although one of the largest Allied contingents were actually not allies?
They were not invited for exactly the same reason as it has been said so many times before, you were to scared to **** off uncle Joe and now people like you Harry are just too ashamed to admit it. Face it You're still a coward Harry, You can't face the truth.
it was a parade for Commonwealth/Empire forces and Allied airforces.
So according to you the Polish Armed Forces in the West although one of the largest Allied contingents were actually not allies?
They were not invited for exactly the same reason as it has been said so many times before, you were to scared to **** off uncle Joe and now people like you Harry are just too ashamed to admit it. Face it You're still a coward Harry, You can't face the truth.
Piorun
25 Jun 2009
Life / Wonderful Poland.......but the attitude of Polish people [150]
I'll say.
It's? It's? It should be “his” you're talking about a human being not some sort of animal, **** racist.
**** racism!
I'll say.
What color will its blood be?
It's? It's? It should be “his” you're talking about a human being not some sort of animal, **** racist.
Piorun
24 Jun 2009
Food / Does Polish pierogi also have its story of origin? [43]
I'm not aware of the origin of “pierogi” but as Gumishu have said they are probably based on chinese cuisine with all kinds of filling as mention above. They are delicious but we also have potato based dumplings which might be of interest to you. The dumpling dough is made of boiled potatoes, “pyzy“ with all kind of filling just like “pierogi” renging from meat filling to all kinds of fruit filling, and of course the sweet “knedle” filed with plums eaten as a sweet dinner. and “kopytka” no filling, but quiet delicious.
Looking at the pictures that you have posted of “chinese jiaozi” makes my mouth water. To fold them like that you have to be an artist as well as a chef. BTW I like chinese food especially the spicy dishes, that's one thing that polish cuisine lacks.
I'm not aware of the origin of “pierogi” but as Gumishu have said they are probably based on chinese cuisine with all kinds of filling as mention above. They are delicious but we also have potato based dumplings which might be of interest to you. The dumpling dough is made of boiled potatoes, “pyzy“ with all kind of filling just like “pierogi” renging from meat filling to all kinds of fruit filling, and of course the sweet “knedle” filed with plums eaten as a sweet dinner. and “kopytka” no filling, but quiet delicious.
Looking at the pictures that you have posted of “chinese jiaozi” makes my mouth water. To fold them like that you have to be an artist as well as a chef. BTW I like chinese food especially the spicy dishes, that's one thing that polish cuisine lacks.
Piorun
23 Jun 2009
Genealogy / Last name "Wujcik"-Immigrated to USA before/during WWI from around Kraków [7]
Take a look here..moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/wujcik.html
Any idea where those 300 Wujcik's are located?
Take a look here..moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/wujcik.html
Piorun
22 Jun 2009
UK, Ireland / Modern Plantation for Poles in Ireland [352]
Life of course and all the beautiful women. You're in a pub business I would venture to guess you have more of a relaxed approach to life than that.
Whats there to enjoy?
Life of course and all the beautiful women. You're in a pub business I would venture to guess you have more of a relaxed approach to life than that.
Piorun
22 Jun 2009
UK, Ireland / Modern Plantation for Poles in Ireland [352]
Relax and enjoy.
A plantation- An original settlement in a new country; a colony.
Relax and enjoy.
Piorun
22 Jun 2009
News / Poland among the greatest enemies of Russia [112]
Georgia and US are obvious as for the rest it's priority, the way they would like to incorporate those lands back into the fold of the collective.
Agreed, although I think it has more to do with the Russian mentality overall and their mindset rather than what Iwan from Iwanowka might think. He will only tell you what he thinks you want to hear.
Forums are not really a good representation, It's way more interesting to read the opinions and comments to the published articles. There at least you will find what the overall mindset is, (from the horses mouth) people who care about the subject. It's not a pretty picture.
I see progress and hope here :-)
As for the 7th place, it's an insult.
After Georgia there are USA, Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia and finally - Poland.
Georgia and US are obvious as for the rest it's priority, the way they would like to incorporate those lands back into the fold of the collective.
However I still believe these figures are close to what people may tell you.
Agreed, although I think it has more to do with the Russian mentality overall and their mindset rather than what Iwan from Iwanowka might think. He will only tell you what he thinks you want to hear.
If you want to get a real picture, you may go to some Russian forums about Poland.
Forums are not really a good representation, It's way more interesting to read the opinions and comments to the published articles. There at least you will find what the overall mindset is, (from the horses mouth) people who care about the subject. It's not a pretty picture.
Oh yeah. 110%. I've just come back home from the US. I manage to hate and love my country at the very same time, I ask myself "are we doomed to live this way?"...
I see progress and hope here :-)
As for the 7th place, it's an insult.
Piorun
15 May 2009
History / Territories of eastern Germany should rightfully belong to Poland? [161]
Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make Western Russia a Lusatia and it's All Good.
so, what you say? ;)
Nice!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make Western Russia a Lusatia and it's All Good.
Piorun
14 May 2009
History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]
So are you telling me that Alfred Cooper lied when he said that "never before in our history have we left in the hands of one of the smaller powers the decision whether or not Britain goes to war." about Polish-British Common Defense Pact or Churchill who by the way was pro encirclement of Germany prior to the war but by this time realized it was too late and upon the signing of the document by Neville Chamberlain stated "This is the maddest single action this country has ever taken". Face it Harry no matter how hard you wish this was not so, IT IS. We all know that Chamberlain was not the sharpest of British politicians and it's his policies that eventually lead to war, not Poland or some meaningless pact that you have managed to sign and through actions have managed to prove how insignificant it really was for Britain, let it go you'll sleep better tonight.
Britain was responsible for what happened to Poland in 1939.
So are you telling me that Alfred Cooper lied when he said that "never before in our history have we left in the hands of one of the smaller powers the decision whether or not Britain goes to war." about Polish-British Common Defense Pact or Churchill who by the way was pro encirclement of Germany prior to the war but by this time realized it was too late and upon the signing of the document by Neville Chamberlain stated "This is the maddest single action this country has ever taken". Face it Harry no matter how hard you wish this was not so, IT IS. We all know that Chamberlain was not the sharpest of British politicians and it's his policies that eventually lead to war, not Poland or some meaningless pact that you have managed to sign and through actions have managed to prove how insignificant it really was for Britain, let it go you'll sleep better tonight.
Piorun
9 May 2009
History / Territories of eastern Germany should rightfully belong to Poland? [161]
To be honest I wanted to see your reaction and what you thought of this
exactly the reaction it supposed to have. Germany still knows how to do a decent propaganda.
To be honest I wanted to see your reaction and what you thought of this
wishing Poland gulping down Germany???
exactly the reaction it supposed to have. Germany still knows how to do a decent propaganda.
Piorun
9 May 2009
History / Territories of eastern Germany should rightfully belong to Poland? [161]
Normal? I see, you still think I'm schizophrenic after what you have just said. But then again you see the map as Pro Polish propaganda as I see it as telling every German that the greatest threat to Germany is just east of the border. You sure have a funny way of looking at things.
Normal? I see, you still think I'm schizophrenic after what you have just said. But then again you see the map as Pro Polish propaganda as I see it as telling every German that the greatest threat to Germany is just east of the border. You sure have a funny way of looking at things.
Piorun
9 May 2009
History / Territories of eastern Germany should rightfully belong to Poland? [161]
Really? If all was as friendly as you portray to be we would all be on the same page when it come to politics and interest of both of our countries, we are not are we?
Really? If all was as friendly as you portray to be we would all be on the same page when it come to politics and interest of both of our countries, we are not are we?
Piorun
9 May 2009
History / Territories of eastern Germany should rightfully belong to Poland? [161]
I don't, I just don't trust you. This map was publish in one of the German magazines last year I see the propaganda is wall and alive in Germany.
You know...you don't have to hate Germans anymore
I don't, I just don't trust you. This map was publish in one of the German magazines last year I see the propaganda is wall and alive in Germany.
Piorun
9 May 2009
History / Territories of eastern Germany should rightfully belong to Poland? [161]
You mean 66 million the rest are foreigners, besides there is a clip on youtube somewhere showing how the German is licking shoes of one of the foreigners in Germany. You guys are not a big bad wolf anymore.
You mean 66 million the rest are foreigners, besides there is a clip on youtube somewhere showing how the German is licking shoes of one of the foreigners in Germany. You guys are not a big bad wolf anymore.
Piorun
9 May 2009
History / Territories of eastern Germany should rightfully belong to Poland? [161]
Sure, just like this.
We should just merge! :)
Sure, just like this.
Piorun
3 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
B'fhearr liom liomanaid, beoir, uisce beatha
That's what I would say and I'm Polish
B'fhearr liom liomanaid, beoir, uisce beatha
That's what I would say and I'm Polish
Piorun
2 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
Agreed, but judging the action of British government prior to war it could have very well gone both ways. Personally I'm of the opinion that if France was not involved and Britain was the only one the declaration of war would have never happen. As for the Spitfire thingamajigs thank God you got cranking.
well,sorry but historical fact and what ifs are 2 very different things
Agreed, but judging the action of British government prior to war it could have very well gone both ways. Personally I'm of the opinion that if France was not involved and Britain was the only one the declaration of war would have never happen. As for the Spitfire thingamajigs thank God you got cranking.
Piorun
2 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
“If Britain had stayed neutral” I simply don't see it as a plausible alternative to the events that lead to WWII. Correct me if I'm wrong but the lead up to the war was all about blaming France and Britain for all of Germany's problems, their economic hardship (and humiliation) imposed on them by you guys? It stands to reason that some kind of revenge would be in order. Another factor that can't be ignored is Hitlers belief in the superiority of German people and their resolve. In Hitlers eyes Britain was virtually out of the war after Dunkirk, apart from the Luftwaffe, Germany was happy to let the Italians take on Britain in the deserts of North Africa proving to me once more how much he himself thought of Britain. To be honest I'm not completely sure what the deal was with Britain, whether or not Germany expected you to surrender or what? Your scenario is wishful thinking at bast but it would never be.
Yes Britain did declare war on Germany after the invasion of Poland by Germany but to argue that was the main reason for Britain declaration of war is simply false. The way I see it, it was British policy at that time and Nevile Chamberlains eagerness to appease the Germans at every turn that finally convinced Hitler of how weak the western Powers must really be and give him confidence to start war which he would be able to win. This simple act of kissing his A** is really what eventually put Britain on the collision course with Germany and Poland just an excuse to declare war, which sooner or later you would have to do anyway.
if Britain had stayed neutral,which historical evidence proves Hitler would hve been more than happy to live with,we wouldnt have expended the millions of pounds and lives that brought about the collapse of our empire.
“If Britain had stayed neutral” I simply don't see it as a plausible alternative to the events that lead to WWII. Correct me if I'm wrong but the lead up to the war was all about blaming France and Britain for all of Germany's problems, their economic hardship (and humiliation) imposed on them by you guys? It stands to reason that some kind of revenge would be in order. Another factor that can't be ignored is Hitlers belief in the superiority of German people and their resolve. In Hitlers eyes Britain was virtually out of the war after Dunkirk, apart from the Luftwaffe, Germany was happy to let the Italians take on Britain in the deserts of North Africa proving to me once more how much he himself thought of Britain. To be honest I'm not completely sure what the deal was with Britain, whether or not Germany expected you to surrender or what? Your scenario is wishful thinking at bast but it would never be.
Britain DID declare war BECAUSE Poland was invaded(or rather,because the germans didnt retreat or stick to a fairly legitimate claim for a land corridor),I say again,not Polands fault,Nevile Chamberlins and the cabinet for declaring war.
Yes Britain did declare war on Germany after the invasion of Poland by Germany but to argue that was the main reason for Britain declaration of war is simply false. The way I see it, it was British policy at that time and Nevile Chamberlains eagerness to appease the Germans at every turn that finally convinced Hitler of how weak the western Powers must really be and give him confidence to start war which he would be able to win. This simple act of kissing his A** is really what eventually put Britain on the collision course with Germany and Poland just an excuse to declare war, which sooner or later you would have to do anyway.
Piorun
2 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
Good to have you back.
I thought you might have been killed in one of those reenactment battles.
My debate is not about declaring the war on Germany but rather about the British debt after it was all over. Like I said before, we paid our share so that had nothing to do with us but nice try anyway. Simply stating that if it was not for Poland, Britain would not be in the mass it found itself after the war just won't do, or that somehow it's all our fault.
laugh,I nearlly bought a pizza,explain please dear freind how exactly declaring war on germany because it wouldnt leave poland would have "saved our(untill we got involved in ww2 rock solid empire)empire"? I cant remember there being any British colonies anywhere near Danzig,can you?
Good to have you back.
I thought you might have been killed in one of those reenactment battles.
My debate is not about declaring the war on Germany but rather about the British debt after it was all over. Like I said before, we paid our share so that had nothing to do with us but nice try anyway. Simply stating that if it was not for Poland, Britain would not be in the mass it found itself after the war just won't do, or that somehow it's all our fault.
Piorun
1 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
Whining is on your part due to some claim you have equipped Polish Army..
(I am now starting to understand), so do I, the problem is not the national pride on your part, just lack of knowledge. Polish Air Force in Great Britain was an independent air force, though operationally within the RAF structure. The equipment it used was, as that of the entire Polish Army in the west, leased by Great Britain to the Polish government. After the war, a bill for over 68 million pounds sterling, covering the equipment and operating costs of the Polish Army in Great Britain was paid from the gold reserves deposited in Canada. Contrary to your claim here Poland paid for its own Army needs and fought for British cause. F*** to all who claimed otherwise, not a penny of British debt can be attributed to the Polish cause. It's you who are ungrateful.
More whining....I am now starting to understand
Whining is on your part due to some claim you have equipped Polish Army..
(I am now starting to understand), so do I, the problem is not the national pride on your part, just lack of knowledge. Polish Air Force in Great Britain was an independent air force, though operationally within the RAF structure. The equipment it used was, as that of the entire Polish Army in the west, leased by Great Britain to the Polish government. After the war, a bill for over 68 million pounds sterling, covering the equipment and operating costs of the Polish Army in Great Britain was paid from the gold reserves deposited in Canada. Contrary to your claim here Poland paid for its own Army needs and fought for British cause. F*** to all who claimed otherwise, not a penny of British debt can be attributed to the Polish cause. It's you who are ungrateful.
Piorun
1 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
Well maybe you should have learned how to goosestep and all Brits should have grown Hitler mustache, make nice with the Germans and everything would have been nice, instead of borrowing money. Just don't blame it on us.
a consequence of joining WWII was we lost EVERYTHING!
Well maybe you should have learned how to goosestep and all Brits should have grown Hitler mustache, make nice with the Germans and everything would have been nice, instead of borrowing money. Just don't blame it on us.
Piorun
1 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
You were not doing us a favour, you were trying to save your empire.
so Britain was still paying for doing Poland
You were not doing us a favour, you were trying to save your empire.
Piorun
1 May 2009
UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]
Whatever your opinion is, it still dose not change the fact that you had to buy equipment from them to save your own a**, hence your debt. It has nothing to do with Poland.
Americans were just canon fodder
Whatever your opinion is, it still dose not change the fact that you had to buy equipment from them to save your own a**, hence your debt. It has nothing to do with Poland.