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Does Polish pierogi also have its story of origin?


christy1991 4 | 37  
23 Jun 2009 /  #1
From this forum and other web materials,i know in Poland,the pierogi (does this word mean dumpling? if it is wrong,please understand,because i don't know Polish at all) is your traditional food.similarly in our China,jiaozi (english name is chinese meat ravioli or a substantial stuffed dumpling).

Since the Spring Festival marks the first day of a brand new year, the first meal is rather important. People from north and south have different habits of the food they eat on this special day. In Northern China, people usually eat jiaozi (or dumpling), which is shaped like a crescent moon. It is said that dumplings were first known in China some 1,600 years ago. The Chinese pronunciation of jiaozi means midnight or the end and the beginning of time. According to historical records, in ancient times people from both north and south ate dumplings on Chinese New Year's Day. Perhaps because Southern China produced more rice than any other areas, gradually, southerners had more other choices on New Year's Day.

The shape of jiaozi resembles that of ancient gold and silver ingots or a crescent moon, and symbolizes the hope for a year of plenty. In some places, people stuff jiaozi with sugar to wish for a sweet life; others put one or two clean coins in jiaozi -- if you happen to come across one with a coin inside, it means you will enjoy good luck.

Many families in China usually prepare enough jiaozi to last several days during the Spring Festival.

So i'm very curious about the origination of Polish Dumpling,how about talking about its story?thank you ^_^


  • chinese jiaozi 01

  • chinese jiaozi 02

  • chinese jiaozi 03

  • chinese jiaozi 04
gumishu 11 | 5,493  
23 Jun 2009 /  #2
one cannot exclude that they came from the China originally christy - maybe with the Hunnic/Mongol nomads as the middlemen
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
23 Jun 2009 /  #3
they're very close to agnolotti as well, pierogi that is.

christy, you're giving me cravings for Xiao Long Bao.
chinczyk - | 32  
23 Jun 2009 /  #4
oh,christy,I think i know a little about it,pierogi were traditionally peasant food,but later spread in all social classes(maybe because it is yummy;)).I heard that they are mainly served at festivals,especially Chrismas Eve.

pierogi are stuffed with various fillings(more than fillings we filled in Jiaozi) like ground meat,,mushroom,cheese(we don't use cheese to fill our Jiaozi:D) and fruits like cherry,apple,strawberry and so forth,one of Polish friends even told me they filled their pierogi with plum,amazing!:))

And I heard there was pierogi festival held in Poland.
as if i were Polish,hahahaha

maybe with the Hunnic/Mongol nomads as the middlemen

oh,interesting theory,man;)

Xiao Long Bao

I am shocked that you know this!!well,jiaozi and xiao long bao are a little different,mainly in appearance ,i think.but no doubt that they are all delicious food;)

welcome to have a tast of these Chinese food and we hope we can see pierogi in China soon!
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
24 Jun 2009 /  #5
maybe with the Hunnic/Mongol nomads as the middlemen

I accept your opinion more,thinking about the historical reasons!

christy, you're giving me cravings for Xiao Long Bao.

you must have been to Shanghai,(if you aren't chinese^_^),because your spell "Xiao Long Bao" is exactly right!!! i also like it,my favorite is Meicai stuffing (preserved flowering cabbage),wow~~~! drooling!

Unfortunately,i don't found Polish restaurant in Shandong province of China,otherwise,i must try 100% Pierogi


  • xiao long bao 01

  • xiao long bao 02

  • xiao long bao 03

  • xiao long bao 04
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
24 Jun 2009 /  #6
you must have been to Shanghai,(if you aren't chinese^_^),because your spell "Xiao Long Bao" is exactly right!!! i also like it,my favorite is Meicai stuffing (preserved flowering cabbage),wow~~~! drooling!

I am shocked that you know this

i am from australia, and australia has a large chinese migrant population.

dumplings are now the in thing with restaurants like "dumplings plus" and "hutong dumpling restaurant".

i also like dan dan (the spicy noodles).
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
24 Jun 2009 /  #7
i also like dan dan (the spicy noodles).

You surprised me! "hutong","dan dan",how can you know spell them? you are very cool ^_^

I like dan dan noodles too,this is a Sichuan Specialty,i love Sichuan cuisine and Hunan cuisine (because i'm Hunan people,ahahaha......).do you know why it is called "dan dan"?

Dan dan Mian (means noodle) first made in 1841,by a hawker from Zigong city (in Sichuan province),whose name is Chen Bao Bao,he carried a load on his shoulders ans sell this noodle along the streets.by and by,it was famous in Sichuan,in China,even all over the world.

When it appeared in your Melbourne? i don't know ^_^ how you eat Xiao Long Bao and Dandan? using knife&fork?using chopsticks? he he he......
Piorun - | 658  
24 Jun 2009 /  #8
I'm not aware of the origin of “pierogi” but as Gumishu have said they are probably based on chinese cuisine with all kinds of filling as mention above. They are delicious but we also have potato based dumplings which might be of interest to you. The dumpling dough is made of boiled potatoes, “pyzy“ with all kind of filling just like “pierogi” renging from meat filling to all kinds of fruit filling, and of course the sweet “knedle” filed with plums eaten as a sweet dinner. and “kopytka” no filling, but quiet delicious.

Looking at the pictures that you have posted of “chinese jiaozi” makes my mouth water. To fold them like that you have to be an artist as well as a chef. BTW I like chinese food especially the spicy dishes, that's one thing that polish cuisine lacks.
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
25 Jun 2009 /  #9
You surprised me! "hutong","dan dan",how can you know spell them? you are very cool ^_^

im not that cool, there are many chinese restaurants in melbourne. i remember the names.

I like dan dan noodles too,this is a Sichuan Specialty,i love Sichuan cuisine and Hunan cuisine (because i'm Hunan people,ahahaha......).do you know why it is called "dan dan"?

Dan dan Mian (means noodle) first made in 1841,by a hawker from Zigong city (in Sichuan province),whose name is Chen Bao Bao,he carried a load on his shoulders ans sell this noodle along the streets.by and by,it was famous in Sichuan,in China,even all over the world.

i thought it was coz they were spicy...you learn something new everyday.

When it appeared in your Melbourne? i don't know ^_^ how you eat Xiao Long Bao and Dandan? using knife&fork?using chopsticks? he he he......

melbourne has chinese migrants since the 1800's when there was a goldrush. we still have a huge chinese population.

i use chopsticks to eat xiao long bao and dan dan...except when dan dan is nearly finished and i need a spoon.
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
25 Jun 2009 /  #10
you learn something new everyday.

Thank you! he he he......
Everything of this world is developping rapidly,if we don't learn new knowledge,then we shall be outdated,studying can make us keep young and nimble,but the most important is curiosity,if you highly want to know "why it appears?" "why it is?""how can you do?"etc,the strong curiosity will drive you to search the answers.

I'm very curious about why you are familiar with chinese things,so i checked their knowledge on web.ahahaha.......

i use chopsticks to eat xiao long bao and dan dan...except when dan dan is nearly finished and i need a spoon

Wow~!you are very terrific!all the clients i met (except korean) can't use chopsticks,i remembered last time,our Pakistan client visited our company,he wanted to learn how to use chopsticks,but failed,he told me:"christy,it is too difficult for foreigner :( ,i must give up."he had no way,then i rushed into the near supermarket and bought fork&spoon for him.

So you are an old China hand!!!

Hi!how about talking something about Australia? in the Feb,i viewed some news about Koala,because of the drought,these lovely animals have no water to drink,how are they now?did the drought go through?


  • Koala and children ^_^

  • koala is taking a shower^_^
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
25 Jun 2009 /  #11
Wow~!you are very terrific!all the clients i met (except korean) can't use chopsticks,i remembered last time,our Pakistan client visited our company,he wanted to learn how to use chopsticks,but failed,he told me:"christy,it is too difficult for foreigner :( ,i must give up."he had no way,then i rushed into the near supermarket and bought fork&spoon for him.

it depends, in western countries such as australia, america, britain, etc there will be a large proportion of people that are able to use chop sticks. in pakistan i couldnt imagine there would be too many chinese or an influence of using chop sticks.

here is a link to a review of a dumpling restaurant:

jamesbluntknife.blogspot.com/2008/09/dumplings-plus-melbourne.html

and another:

tummyrumbles.com/2009/01/hu-tong-dumpling-bar.html

Hi!how about talking something about Australia? in the Feb,i viewed some news about Koala,because of the drought,these lovely animals have no water to drink,how are they now?did the drought go through?

what did you google to get the pictures?

i dont know if that koala was heat affected or bushfire affected.

in february we had a run of 4 days around 40c, which inevitably led to some idiot lighting a fire and small towns being destroyed. im not sure if that koala is drinking because of that.

did you know that gum leaves for them are like alcohol/drugs for humans?
Crazy Horse RVN  
25 Jun 2009 /  #12
Does anyone have the recipe for the dough? I'd love to try making ome. I do make my own pierogi but it appears that this dough is a bit different.
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
26 Jun 2009 /  #13
King Sobieski:

I think you are very right,there are so many chinese people transmigrate,and too many chinese students are studying in different countries,chinese culture is influencing the world,meanwhile,accepting different cultures from the world.yesterday,a USA friend told me he was born in 1962,he is a tiger! old China hand too ^_^you see,he not only introduced his age,but also his animal sign,he he he......

And i viewed the blog about"Hutong dumpling bar",very nice,especially the its introduction,splendid!but i also noticed the prices,how expensive! (compare with domestic prices),similarly,foreign restaurants in China are also expensive,he he he......

did you know that gum leaves for them are like alcohol/drugs for humans?

In Melbourne,present's tempreture is 6C°~14C°,should be comfortable! Koala should be fine too!
Really?the chinese sources show eucalyptus leaves are exclusive food Koala eats each day,don't eat anything other and don't drink water,they sleep for 18~22 hours.in Guangzhou (canton),there are 6 koalas,they are always sleeping,zzzzzz......vey very very lovely!!!

Does anyone have the recipe for the dough? I'd love to try making ome. I do make my own pierogi but it appears that this dough is a bit different.

I only know they mix flour,milk,eggs to make dough in Poland,the proportion should be flour:milk=2:1.this isn't my experience,i searched in the web,he he he......but i know in order to strong the dough's toughness.you'd better cover preservative film or wet cloth on the dough for about 30 minutes,it can make the pierogi more delicious.
King Sobieski 2 | 716  
27 Jun 2009 /  #14
Does anyone have the recipe for the dough? I'd love to try making ome. I do make my own pierogi but it appears that this dough is a bit different.

my mum makes them with wonton wrappers as too time consuming to make the dough.

,how expensive! (compare with domestic prices),similarly,foreign restaurants in China are also expensive,he he he......

really, this isnt really expensive by australian standards

there are not too many places i could get dan dan, dumplings and stir fried vegetables for around $25.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
28 Jun 2009 /  #15
Based on linguistic evidence the word pierogi is some 3,000 to 5,000 years old, which would predate Chines stuffed dumplings by at least 15 centuries. The idea is not unique in Eurasia and it is unlikely that the dish came into Slavic cuisine from China. Now the question is: what culture did the Chinese borrow stuffed dumplings from?
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
28 Jun 2009 /  #16
But what i found in google is:
Pierogi is a very traditional Polish dish eaten by everyone. Although often described as a stuffed dumpling, this speciality is more akin to Italian Ravioli. Indeed, it is thought that they were introduced to Polish cuisine about 500 years ago by Queen Bonna who was Italian.

Maybe you are right,the word pierogi has 3000~5000 years history,but i don't think you are right to compare one word with one food!

Now the question is: what culture did the Chinese borrow stuffed dumplings from?

About the culture,i always think so: nationality's culture also belongs to the world's! when one nationality creates a new civilization,it must influence the whole world.then the whole humen race get development.no matter China,Poland,American,UK,Germany,Austrilia......or African countries.no matter developed,developing or poor countries at present,each one has its own important role in historical development of human being.

Every country has its sense of pride about its own culture,we respect other countries' cultures,so we are here and discuss everything objectively.i welcome all the friends to show their opinions in my threads,but please pay attention phraseology and not to hurt other people's culture pride!!!
dtaylor5632 18 | 2,007  
28 Jun 2009 /  #17
**** sake, pierogi is not a Polish dish, it comes from Russia. So why argue about it?
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
28 Jun 2009 /  #18
A lot of recipes are akin to other recipes.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierogi#Origin_and_name_variants

In case your government in China is blocking access to the website above, here is a quote for you:
The origins of pierogi are difficult to trace. While dumplings as such are found throughout Eurasia, the specific name pierogi, with its various cognates in the West and East Slavic languages, shows the dish's common Slavic origins, predating the modern nation states and their standardized languages. The East Slavic Belarusians, Russians and Ukranians, the West Slavic Poles and Slovaks, and the Baltic Latvians and Lithuanians all consume this dish, although sometimes under a different name (e.g., kalduny in Belarus and Lithuania). In some East European languages, variants of this dish are known by names derived from the root of the word "to boil" (Russian: варить, varit', Ukrainian: варити, varyty). These include the Belarusian vareniki (варэнiкi), Latvian vareņiki, Russian vareniki (варе́ники), Ukrainian varenyky (варе́ники) (literally "boiled things", from the adjective form varenyy).

There is a definite similarity to Italian ravioli and tortellini or Jewish kreplach. In Turkey, Transcaucasus, and Central Asia round pockets of dough with a meat filling are called manti, khinkali, or chuchvara. In East Asia, similar foods are served, such as Chinese wonton and jiaozi, Japanese gyoza, Mongolian buuz, Nepalese/Tibetan momo, Afghani mantu, and Korean mandu.


Maybe you are right,the word pierogi has 3000~5000 years history,but i don't think you are right to compare one word with one food!

Why not?

About the culture,i always think so: nationality's culture also belongs to the world's! when one nationality creates a new civilization,it must influence the whole world.then the whole humen race get development.no matter China,Poland,American,UK,Germany,Austrilia......or African countries.no matter developed,developing or poor countries at present,each one has its own important role in historical development of human being.

What's that all about?
When they first ate pierogi there was no Polish nationality.

You asked a question and you received an answer. So what is the problem?

Every country has its sense of pride about its own culture,we respect other countries' cultures,so we are here and discuss everything objectively.i welcome all the friends to show their opinions in my threads,but please pay attention phraseology and not to hurt other people's culture pride!!!

First, Chinese respect for other cultures is not such a simple thing. And that's just one example. So let's better stick to pierogi, okay?

Second, opinions are OK where opinions suffice. Facts are not a matter of opinion. 2+2=4, no matter what your opinion on the subject is. Poland, and the rest of the world owe a lot to Chinese inventors (paper, explosives, silk - of just a few that come to mind. But pierogi, ravioli and such are not among the things the world owes to the Chinese.
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
28 Jun 2009 /  #19
My god! why there are always some people insist marathon debates???i didn't claim "pierogi" origins from China at all! and i didn't claim dumpling is first invented by chinese.i only describe the culture when chinese eat jiaozi!

I knew "pierogi" is a traditional dish of Poland from this forum,and polish friends taught me how to cook it.i only want to know something interesting and relax from it!!! why you relate so many things with our China! (even including our government block google,tell me,what the relationship about it? even

First, Chinese respect for other cultures is not such a simple thing.

Do you understand well about each chinese people?

If you don't like China and chinese,as you like!
aphrodisiac 11 | 2,444  
28 Jun 2009 /  #20
My god! why there are always some people insist marathon debates???i didn't claim "pierogi" origins from China at all! and i didn't claim dumpling is first invented by chinese.i only describe the culture when chinese eat jiaozi!

he, he....I know what you mean:)
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
28 Jun 2009 /  #21
I remember eating that Chinese food in a city called Izumo. The Japanese have gyouza which, I think, is of Chinese origin. Very similar to Polish pierogi.

Xiao long bao had a name in Japanese, I can't remember what. I think we say Dim Sum from the Oriental name.

The host was Chinese and I requested that she prepare them the Chinese way. Trust me, the Japanese alter the taste quite a lot. They find Chinese cooking too oily so change the texture.

As for Polish pierogi, it's hard to pinpoint dates. Pierogi are largely Slavic and most Slavs have something like pierogi. You probably like pierogi z mięsem, Chrissy.
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
29 Jun 2009 /  #22
The host was Chinese and I requested that she prepare them the Chinese way. Trust me, the Japanese alter the taste quite a lot. They find Chinese cooking too oily so change the texture

Yes,you are right! Japan and Korea was mostly influenced by China in history,especially in Tang dynasty and Song dynasty periods.but i personally think these two countries developed some of chinese cultures well and formed their own particular cultures.like as dragon boat sacrifice of Korea,and Sado and Kimono and so on of Japan,especailly Chinese characters,but when you talk about tea-making,Japan will firstly come to your mind!!!

About Japanese food,it is more lite and exquisite than chinese dishes,not so many oil and salt,very good for health,so most japanese people have a longer lives! longevity country!
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
29 Jun 2009 /  #23
True enough but there are some exceptions. Tempura is very oily and okonomiyaki a little too. Plus, they liked grilled food like teriyaki and sukiyaki, not to mention yakisoba.

The closest the Japanese had to pierogi was nikuman. Gyouza is similar too.

Polish pierogi has a more specific shape though, from some milk bars, they are basically the same as nikuman.
anton888 - | 82  
29 Jun 2009 /  #24
Hi all,will it be possible that it came from the Mongolians??They did spend quite sometime in this part of the world...I don't know so I am not trying to argue, but maybe it is possible?
chinczyk - | 32  
4 Jul 2009 /  #25
anton888
impossible is nothing;)
you know,some people are studying the origin of a group of Chinese people living in inland China,why,coz they suspect that group of people's ancestors may origianally come from Italy thousands of years ago as a group of Roman soldiers in Crassus's legion sent to conquer Parthia Empire. weird theory,eh?but it may hold

so,the view that thinks pierogi may come from China may hold too
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
4 Jul 2009 /  #26
You know, it's important not to look at the shapes too much but more to the idea of having a filling inside some dough. I've made Polish pierogi with my fiancee and it's fairly straightforward. There is a white tool which shapes them. The dimsum which I had in Izumo was similar to Polish meat pierogi. My Taiwanese-American friend also made them very well, very similar process.
OP christy1991 4 | 37  
5 Jul 2009 /  #27
chinczyk,how are you? did you finish your examinations? ^_^

I've made Polish pierogi with my fiancee and it's fairly straightforward.

you and yor fiancee must do better than me~!!! when we are making chinese jiaozi,all the friends laugh at my jiaozi,because they are really too ugly :( and when they are boiled,they are broken! fortunately,i'm from south of China,not north,so i don't like eating jiaozi so much,when i want to take them,i will buy quick frozen product,since all the chinese people don't think it is delicious,but no way......
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
5 Jul 2009 /  #28
Jiaozi are gyouza? You are from Guandong Province? Oh, Polish pierogi are similar in that you must be delicate. It's easy to put a hole in one of them if you are too heavy handed. It's important to pack the right level of filling, otherwise excessive bulging could destroy them.

Chinese cuisine is excellent, I love it.
chinczyk - | 32  
5 Jul 2009 /  #29
chinczyk,how are you? did you finish your examinations?

okay,hehe,thanks,yep,my exams are over,and great summer holiday begins!!:D

fortunately,i'm from south of China,not north,

wow,Jiang nan belle!!!:D

Chinese cuisine is excellent, I love it

always glad to hear that:)))
PennBoy 76 | 2,437  
5 Jul 2009 /  #30
Pierogis are originally Russian not Polish, so is Barszcz or Borsch, Kielbasa, Golombki ( rice and beef wraped in cabbage leaves) thats Polish.

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