News / The most spectacular errors in Polish politics. [264]

Polish political errors?

With hindsight, signing the Anglo-Polish agreement 1939 in which both parties agreed under a secret protocol to that agreement that Britain would not support or aid Poland in the event of any aggression by the USSR. Only the French government was informed of this protocol, it remained undisclosed to both USA and USSR.

History / Prewar Warsaw book [8]

Unfortunately ul. Pańska 28, is not on Ryszard's great site. It was not a building that had any architectural merit so wasn't photographed as a destination point of interest. Although I have a photo of ul. Pańska 28 from 1945 which shows it was pretty much destroyed during the Rising 1944. It was never rebuilt though a shiny office block now stands on our site.

History / Prewar Warsaw book [8]

Try looking on this website:
warszawa1939.pl/index.php
You will find many such photos :-)
Ryszard Mączewski who runs the site would be able to give you a list of Warsaw photo books showing pre-war city.

News / Petition the Prime Minister to Recognise the contribution of Polish Armed Forces [49]


You are absolutley right—I now have a scan of the original letter (not through Michael Moszynski though) the letter was not written by Blair but his private secretary and is the same as that on the link. How disappointing. Maybe when I look at the Cabinet office and Foreign office papers at the National Archives there may be something of interest.

History / "GANGING UP" ON POLAND? [99]


You are barking up the wrong tree :-)

News / Petition the Prime Minister to Recognise the contribution of Polish Armed Forces [49]


FWIW I have been promised a scan of Tony Blair's original written reply to Michael Moszynski in a couple of days; so that should be definitve on this point. I didn't know this but, the author Frederick Forsyth, CBE, Lord Litchfield and HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh were all instrumental in supporting Moszynski and putting pressure on Blair's government to allow Polish veterans to lead the parade.

History / "GANGING UP" ON POLAND? [99]

Poland in the Second World War: J. Garliński-quoted from author's notes.


My correspondence box hence first line of post:
Poland in the Second World War: J. Garliński-quoted from author's notes.

History / Gdansk and it's history with Poland [116]


She:


Although Lucy Dawidowicz is not above academic criticism herself.

I am no great fan of Davies' later books because of his sloppy editing but Norman Davies did keep interest in Poland alive in the "West" when most westerrn academics were not really publishing anything about Poland. So there is much for Poles to thank him for.

News / Petition the Prime Minister to Recognise the contribution of Polish Armed Forces [49]


How can anyone know—everything was (and is) controlled and falsified by the Jewish-Bolshevik world conspiracy... the Jewish-Bolsheviks even invented the internet so they can keep track on everything we are saying and thinking :-)))

History / Gdansk and it's history with Poland [116]


Seems he also built another important structure in Gdansk:

History / 70th Anniversary of start of WWII [50]


Yesterday 120 tonnes of engraved granite plaques and statue plinth for the Polish Forces War Memorial project was delivered on-site ready to receive the memorial statue which is on its way from Poznan and should arrive in UK early next week. The Polish MoD are sending over representatives from all the armed forces who will be joined by opposite numbers from British MoD to make up the honour guard.

Representatives of the Britsh government have been invited :-)

Finished bronze Polish Forces War Memorial statue just before shipping to UK from Poznan. Polish Forces War Memorial statue.

It is finally complete ;-))

Polish Forces War Memorial

The Polish Forces War Memorial 1939-45 installation at the National Memorial Arboretum.

The Polish memorial is due to be officially inaugurated on Sept. 19th. There will at least 3,000 guests from Britain and Poland including WWII veterans from all the Polish Armed Forces and the A.K. as well as serving soldiers from the national armed services who will form the honour guard for the ceremonies and fly-by of Spitfire and Lancaster bomber from the Battle of Britain flight.

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]


I have another couple of days booked at the National Archives later in this month so am going to copy all the Cabinet office and Foreign office papers related to the Poles and the 1946 victory parade invitation(s) while I am there.

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]


Do you have any detailed dates for this proposal to the British? Names of British diplomats Piłsudski met with to discuss his proposal? As I can't find specific reference to this issue amongst the British cabinet or Foreign office papers on Piłsudski at National Archives in London?

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]


Or maybe not, if Piłsudski really was more concerned about Russia than Germany why would he be thinking of a pre-emptive strike against Hitler's re-emerging Germany rather than a pre-emptive strike against Stalin and the USSR? Piłsudski had previously conjured up one 'miracle' over the Red Army so why not conjure up another against Stalin's and the USSR whom you say he perceived as the greater concern?

BTW. Hitler very much admired the Britain for her empire—the way a tiny speck of a country could dominate a vast area of the world—in many cases by using the local indigenous population to help subjugate and control its conquered colonies, a model Hitler thought could work for him in the future Nazi occupied countries. Hitler wanted a partnership between any emerging German "empire' and the British Empire (it was Roosvelt that wanted the old Colonial empires of Britain, France etc dismantled in exchange for US participation the European war). Hitler didn't believe Britain would go to war with Germany over Poland just as Britain didn't believe Hitler would go to war with Britain over Poland—both proved wrong.

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]


Maybe this was the real reason for Piłsudski wanting a pre-emptive strike while he perceived Germany in a weak position of transition under the Nazi take over of power—less to do with nipping Nazism in the bud but more to do with Piłsudski's ambitions of regaining long-lost territory and this maybe part of the reasons France and Britain were not willing to go along with Piłsudski?

Do you have the precise dates of Piłsudski's meeting(s) with British Ambassador or formal requests to British Government for assistance to go to war with Germany alongside Poland and France? I frequently visit the National Archives in London and would be interested one day to see what official documents there are in the government archives related to Piłsudski's plans.

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]


At the time Piłsudski proposed a pre-emptive attack on Germany surely it didn't matter one bit what Hitler and Germnay did or didn't do after 1939 as it hadn't happened when Piłsudski proposed a pre-emptive strike!

The fact that Piłsudski contemplated such a radical action meant that he must had have good reason to think this was a sensible course of action to be taken by Poland. Why wait for the British or French, or even more importantly why even ask them—given the post below?


The question is why did Poland not act alone given Polish army had seen off the Red Army? Was it because Poland hadn't actually got the financial reserves to pay for a unilateral war against Germany so needed support from others?

What was Piłsudski's plan for Germany if Poland, Briatin and France had of beaten Hitler's forces? Was he intending to carve up Germany between the three partners or just pull out and leave German to its own destiny again?

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]


Certainly was, as hadn't Poland signed agreements with Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and then later with Britain and France! This frenetic paper signing might suggest a failure of Polish foreign policy?

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]


How far back would you have to go?

See:
Paul Winkler: The Thousand-Year Conspiracy - Secret Germany Behind the Mask (historical roots of Nazism)
written in 1943 and available as download: ftrreading.blogspot.com/2006/01/thousand-year-conspiracy.html

History / "GANGING UP" ON POLAND? [99]


1jola: My reply related to the original post "ganging up on Poland" as above not to the subsequent posts below.


To which I have offered my opinion (below) as you have yours.


So IYO are all property-restitution claims, Jewish and non-Jewish, "ganging up on Poland" or is it just Jewish claims as (the only ones} highlighted in the original post?

History / THEY WOULDN'T LISTEN TO WISE OLD PIŁSUDSKI!!!! [67]

Why didn't Poland go it alone? Hadn't Poland's army soundly defeated the Red Army in the 1920's?

History / "GANGING UP" ON POLAND? [99]

What no mention of non-Jewish Polish property restitution from WWII and communist era? Let me guess :-)))

WARNING: It is anti-Polish to click any of the links contained in this post

Statement of Miroslaw Szypowski, President of the Organization of Property Owners in Poland (Ogolnopolskie Porozumienie Organizacji Rewindykacyjnych)
polishrestitution.com/szypowski.php

In the name of the Ogolnopolskie Porozumienie Organizacji Rewindykacyjnych/National Polish Understanding of Recovery Organizations representing more than 250,000 members, I wouldlike to assure the Committee that we fully sympathize and support your demand in the matter of an urgent arrangement by the Polish Government and Parliament of a law permitting the return of property plundered on the basis of confiscation decrees and laws of the Communist Government to the lawful owners and heirs.

The confiscation of assets, frequently comprising possessions accumulated over several generations, by the Communist regime affected all Polish citizens including a large number of Jews particularly harmed by Holocaust criminals.

The fact that 15 years have passed since the government's transformation took place in
Poland and the Polish state has done nothing to achieve even partially a redress of harms that other former states of the Communist block have already done, places successive governments and parliaments in Poland in not the best position.

Seems to be quite a few other interested parties 'Ganging up on Poland' for their rights:

OGÓLNOPOLSKIE POROZUMIENIE ORGANIZACJI REWINDYKACYJNYCH (OPOR)
POLSKA UNIA W£AŚCICIELI NIERUCHOMOŚCI (PUWN)
ZRZESZENIE W£AŚCICIELI NIERUCHOMOŚCI W WARSZAWIE (ZWN-Wa)
STOWARZYSZENIE W£AŚCICIELI NIERUCHOMOŚCI W £ODZI (SWN-£ó)
OGÓLNOPOLSKIE STOWARZYSZENIE W£AŚCICIELI NIERUCHOMOŚCI Z SIEDZIBĄ W GDYNI (SWN-Gd)
OGÓLNOPOLSKIE STOWARZYSZENIE KRESOWIAN WIERZYCIELI SKARBU PAŃSTWA (OSK-WSP)
ZWIĄZEK WYSIEDLONYCH WIERZYCIELI SKARBU PAŃSTWA (ZWWSP)
WIELKOPOLSKIE STOWARZYSZENIE WYW£ASZCZONYCH (WSW)
POLSKIE TOWARZYSTWO ZIEMIAŃSKIE (PTZ)
ZWIĄZEK SZLACHTY POLSKIEJ (ZSzP)
STOWARZYSZENIE POSZKODOWANYCH MIESZCZAN WARSZAWSKICH (SPMW)
STOWARZYSZENIE PRZEMYS£OWCÓW POLSKICH (SPP)
STOWARZYSZENIE BY£YCH W£AŚCICIELI APTEK I WYTWÓRNI FARMACEUTYCZNYCH ORAZ ICH RODZIN "APTEKARZE"
STOWARZYSZENIE W£AŚCICIELI WYW£ASZCZONYCH PÓL I HAL W TATRACH (SWWPiHwT)
STOWARZYSZENIE W£AŚCICIELI I SPADKOBIERCÓW OSÓB POSZKODOWANYCH PRZEZ REFORMĘ ROLNĄ "KASZUBI"
STOWARZYSZENIE £EMKÓW (S£)
ZJEDNOCZENIE £EMKÓW (Z£)
SPO£ECZNE STOWARZYSZENIE "GROMADA WAWRZYSZEW"
ZWIĄZEK GMIN WYZNANIOWYCH ŻYDOWSKICH W POLSCE
STOWARZYSZENIE OSÓB ZAPOMNIANYCH PRZEZ BANKI NIEMIECKIE (SOZpBN)

And no mention of the unwillingness of the Polish state to settle with surviving heirs such as polishrestitution.com/statement.php]
a Holocaust survivor originally from Lodz, Poland, who has filed a case against Poland with the European Court on Human Rights for compensation for his family's manufacturing company stolen by the Nazis and taken over by Poland after World War II.

or non-Jewish cases such as:

news.stv.tv/world/96161-polish-family-seeks-return-of-old-royal-palace


And I still have my eye on that nice shinny new office block built on the site of ul. Panska 28 in Warsaw (opposite ul. Marianska) that used to belong to my father's family until they were forcibly removed to make way for the 'Little Ghetto'.

Before anyone asks: I agree with the UK system that after due process all intestate or heirless assests revert to the state. Period.

Its not just Russians, everyone attempts to rewrite history to suit their own ends --one only has to read PF to see how it works :-))

And I am sure some will say I am the biggest culprit but that suits their purpose as it does mine :-))

History / Gdansk and it's history with Poland [116]

Here is my original post:


Now show me where I implied I "was fully convinced there is not a Polish site in the city?" You can't-as I have not once mentioned anything about there being no Polish buildings in Gdansk or anywhere else.


And again where did I imply this?

I admit "knowing squat about the subject" of "Polish architecture that was not re-interpreted during reconstruction after the war" which is why I posted the question?

To which you replied on your usual remedial level:

History / Gdansk and it's history with Poland [116]


Pre-WWII St.John's Cathedral, Warsaw.



Post war reconstruction:



Sure......



Sure......



Again please show where I was "implying that Gdańsk has barely any Polish architecture"?

sjam:
Are there any particular great examples of classic Polish architecture that were not re-interpreted during reconstruction after the war?

History / Gdansk and it's history with Poland [116]


I have emboldened the point of my question which you have failed to grasp:

sjam:
Are there any particular great examples of classic Polish architecture that were not re-interpreted during reconstruction after the war?


Perhaps you can show me in my question where I claimed Poles never built anything in Gdańsk? It should be simple, even for you, as up until then I had only made the one post in this thread?

If you find where I claimed Poles never built anything in Gdańsk I promise to give up murdering Polish babies for at least a month!


Where also did I say "No Polish architecture"?

sjam:
Are there any particular great examples of classic Polish architecture that were not re-interpreted during reconstruction after the war?

I asked for examples of great Polish architecture that were not re-interpreted during reconstruction after the war-a few examples-'The Old Town' in Warsaw was not a straight replication of its pre-war architecture it was re-interpreted along the lines of previous centuries skyline, the same for ul. Bednarska in Warsaw-only the front sections were rebuilt not the "wings' of the buildings. also St. John's Cathedral was not rebuilt in its pre-war style but a much earlier period was it not? You see (though probably not!) great architecture re-interpreted during reconsruction!

Gdańsk suffered extensive damage during WWII so my question was equally; what great architecture remains in Gdańsk that is free of architectural re-interpretation during post-war reconstruction?


So you did.



.....as I said you seem to have reached the limit or your intellectual (in)capacity again!

History / Gdansk and it's history with Poland [116]


... you seem to have reached your intellectual (in)capacity again!

History / Gdansk and it's history with Poland [116]

How about some architectural images to help illustrate the posts?

Are there any particular great examples of classic Polish architecture that were not re-interpreted during reconstruction after the war?

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


I think you are using this joke excuse to evade answering rather than anything else; the Cold War ended more than twenty years ago; and I am asking for your personal opinion about an issue which you must have thought about before enlisting or during service in the Cold War?

Do you think the Polish forces of the Warsaw Pact would have opened fire on Polish-Americans if they were identifiable?


I can confirm that he did and he did it well :-)) Having been decorated for killing communist insurgents in Kuwait, Yemen and Oman... oh... and Malaya ;-))

At the time my father was considered a traitor to Poland by the communist Warsaw government in 1945 for having sworn allegiance to the Polish-government-in-exile that was based in London. That was the position of the Warsaw government with Gen. Anders also.

Some posts have been removed from this thread, because they have included personal attacks on other members. A reminder to keep on topic and no insults to other members please.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


No doubt, but I am not asking what you did in the service but what would you have done given:

As a Polish-American servicemen would you have bombed Poland during the Cold War if ordered to by the President and thus potentially kill members of your own family?

At times during the cold war this was a very real possibilty so you must have thought about it? No?

Maybe there are other former Polish-American servicemen on this forum who might have been faced with the same order... so lets open it out.

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]


A Noble Prize idiot :-)) Now who could that be?


According to Harry that would be so and I understand why Harry would think so. But I don't personally think of my father as a traitor; although to the Warsaw government in 1945 he was, as were all those in the Polish Second Corps.

You said that you were a Polish-American serviceman therefore would you have bombed Poland during the Cold War if ordered to by your commander-in-chief or would you have refused the order for fear of killing any of your family in Poland?

History / World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World [489]

I wonder if Polish-American servicemen like 1jola really would have bombed Poland during the Cold War if ordered to by their commander-in-chief or would they have refused the order?

Guess my late father would have faced the same possibility whilst serving in the British Army, although he might have considered all Poles in Poland commies and hit the button, so to speak.