Language / The only polish word a foreigner won't ever say correctly :P [113]

My teacher tried 'UWWOOTS' for '£ódź', among numerous other, what she titled "phonmonics" or mnemonic tricks/allusions to different phonetic symbols which often translate in to different, yet familiar, sounds, even words, in the learner's native language.

It worked-:):)

Language / W Szczebrzeszynie chrząszcz brzmi w trzcinie [23]

"In the town of__________________, a beetle buzzes among the reeds."

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

Gudd wun, Shellee-:):):)

Language / The only polish word a foreigner won't ever say correctly :P [113]

I frankly agree with Shelley! It's the same as with many a young lusty male visitor to Sweden and the first word they want to learn how to pronounce in Swedish is 'knulla'. Which country are you from?

"Boże mój"!, sorry-:) LOL

Language / The only polish word a foreigner won't ever say correctly :P [113]

Ależ tak, Shellyczko! Wyobrazasz tobie 'PSCHII -YAH -DZ'NN', Boż mój!! Man, I get tired just remembering how all tongue-twisted up my poor tongue used to get years ago when first began studying Polish formally. I'd come home from class both frustrated as well as exhausted, yet emboldened and revived by the consolation that half the world, (not only the Poles) struggle the same way with English...and most never really make it either-::) LOL

Language / The only polish word a foreigner won't ever say correctly :P [113]

'przyjaźń' used to cause me terrible problems--:)

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

ALL Slavic languages have certain basic silmilarities, the numbers, for instance and various formulaic greetings etc. Structurally, Polish, Russian, Czech and Croatian have the same roots, but vocabulary can be especially tricky, loaded with false friend "booby traps", some of which can be harmless, e.g. Russian 'pismo' (letter) vs. Polish 'pismo' (general body of written work) etc..., while others not-:) LOL

Counting for a monolingual Pole travelling to Zagreb would prove little difficulty, that is, slowly identifying individual words in a written text. Beyond that however, it'd be as if a Parisian who only knew French going to Italy without speaking the language: It wouldn't really work, although the latter also speak a closely related language!

Back to Finnish, as it's closest relative appears to be Estonian, another even less commonly studied language (for a variety of reasons!), it's practically impossible to find cognate words in sister tongues as it would normally be among a decent size language family such as the Romance or Slavic group.

With Finnish, as with Hungarian or Turkish, aside from loan words, one's almost adrift without an anchor or sightings of familiar land (-:

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Surely not too much, admittedly. Yet Swedish is rightfully considered the lingua franca of Scandinavia, as is German of much of the Eastern part of Europe and these days English almost everywhere else, particularly in Asia.

French still maintains a last gasp of hegemony in sections of Africa and of course Eastern Canada!

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

True enough, Kitty! Though I've found that Polish shares with German and probably a number of other languages (both related as well as unrelated) the charactaristic of looking fearsomly difficult at first, but getting blissfully simple...the more one learns the rules. English however, although blissfully unencumbered by the inflective baggage of Polish and many others, has an equally frightful orthography/pronounciation gap, as stated often in this forum, plus becomes quite involved structurally if a person wishes to express themselves on a reasonable academic level, beyond a mere 'He said/She said' parody of a bad Hemingway short story. Frequently, what passes for English abroad is in fact a vulgar caricature of itself.

Too many times English becomes the international language of MIScommunication-::) LOL
Then again, any widely spoken tongue runs a similar risk of being manhandled by the masses.

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

At (short/open 'a', cf. "cap", "dad" etc..)

fAther (broad 'ah-sound', neither like open 'at' or closed 'fAce' with a final 'e' lengthener)

tAll (long 'aw-sound')

etc........, each with that pesky single letter 'a' causing soooo many problems--:):):) LOL

Language / Two questions for people who learn polish [57]

Rudzionu!

Someone = ktokolwiek
Somebody = tak samo, tylko jest mowa potoczna a 'someone' jest pisany język.

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Absolutely! Russian in particular is immensely important and probably even more widely spoken than either Polish or German these days.

Mant Finns do, but most Russians don't speak or understand fluent English.

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Basque has, I believe, almost the same cases as Finnish-:) No relation, though. The former belongs more to the Nostratic Languages, and may share affinities with the Kartvelian tongues of Georgia.

Language / Two questions for people who learn polish [57]

For me, growing up with two languages, German and English (both developmentally related), Polish declension/conjugation wasn't really a shocker. The "challenge" came, indeed continues to dog me, when I got to the numerals. I think I'm already straight on mixed-gender as well as animate masculine vs. inanimate masculine nouns with regard to Genitive and Accusative case endings in particular. Still, on occasion I have doubts.

What I treasure about Polish, compared with English, is the textured, layered subtleties of all those verbal aspects plus prefixes. Somehow, they almost seem more expressive than our mere tense variations.

To be continued (....I'm sure)--:):) LOL

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

Pawian, curiously the same happens when I try to speak with as close to a native Polish accent as possible. --:):):) LOL

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

'English has too many vowels.'

Sorry Osioł, but you've reminded me of the old linguists' quip about Finnland and Hungary. Years ago, so the joke goes, both countries agreed that Finnland with all it's vowels desparately needed some consonants, so richly represented by Hungarian. And so the two nations arranged a swap or transfer, whereby Hungary would "lend" Finnland some much needed vowels to enrich its consonant-poor tongue.--:) :) LOL

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

Rather than talk 'down', try talking 'up to them instead-:):) Challenge even the most recalcitrant with new, "A-levels" vocab. which forces them to locate the word, then try using the same word in a similar followed by a different context. This will throw them slightly off guard, thereby forcing them to pay closer attention next time to what the partner is saying.

The latter worked for me when I was learning Polish. LOL

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Not that Finnish or Hungarian et al are a bleedin' picknick either, only that it'd be a bit of a mistake to confuse amount of cases with ease of language-:)

German, for example, has a mere four (one less than Latin with its Ablative!) compared with Polish seven, if one counts the vocative, and yet learners of German from Mark Twain on down have often been inundated with its tricky and slippery rules, or, seeming lack thereof.

Furthermore, what English lacks in the above grammatical baggage, she more than compensates for in her totally irregular and haphazard spelling/pronounciation incongruities. LOL

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

....Polish has more inflectional permutations than y'all can shake a bloody stick at, so keep on sweating--:):) LOL

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

I figure you also understand Swedish. Most Finns I've encountered speak better Swedish than English, though they'd claim the contrary and would deny this is so. In addition, as with many Europeans, the younger generation usually, they mostly claim to enjoy speaking English more than the enforced languages they had to study in school. However, they usually don't communicate as well in English (which they enjoy) as in, for instance, Swedish (for the Finns) or German (for Poles, Hungarians, etc.) which they claim to dislike. A Catch-22 if there ever was one-::) LOL

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Foxtrot, forstaar du ocksaa svenska? Many Finns speak much better Swedish than English, I found.

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

I know, Foxtrot!! Similar, yet not identical, to Hungarian, if only in number of cases and not in function-:)

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Mafketis, thanks for the advice. Indeed, ANYTHING is handy at this point--:):) LOL

Alcestis, your two queries, one general, directed at all learners, and the other specific, require a response.

As far as why Polish has become a popular language to learn, globalization for one thing, is probably the most practical answer. The world is no longer a monolingual world and Poland especially is becoming a major economic force to be reckoned with. More to the point, much as with Spain, but unlike say, Germany or Scandinavia etc... English in Poland is still a comparative rarity. Thererfore, fluency in Polish is essential, perhaps (for many other reasons) AS important as a Pole's fluency in English.

This leads me to your curious (if typical!) remark concerning 'why I should know "ugór"..' if it's not on some made-up vocabulary list mandated by whomever.

Who decides who is ready to use what words?? Sorry to be blunt here, but maybe the reason I know words like "ugór", "prześieradło", etc... is the same, yet often lacking, motivation for foreign English learners like yourself to acquire words such as 'emolluments', 'comestible' etc...... If the goal is merely to communicate in a sort of globalized gobbledygook of pablem, subjecting the partner to a steady stream of watered down baby talk, then yes, words such as those above are clearly unnecessary.

If though, a higher and more interesting level is desired, then the above words reflect the culture of the speaker, rather than the lack thereof.

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

I almost forgot the pluracentricity of English compared with Polish! English is spoken in at least seven or more countries as a native language (forget about where it's almost a langua franca, such as in most of Africa and Southeast Asia): UK, US, Canada, Malta, Falkland Islands, etc....

The sheer variety of pronounciation within the US, Canada and Britain alone is staggering for Poles, Hungarians etc. whose language group is comparatively centralized in contrast with English.

I don't envy foreigners learning English! LOL

Language / Poles! How do you cope with English phonetics versus English spelling? [37]

How? With difficulty, |'d imagine. No language is entirely logical, i.e. compeltely phonetic, whereby phonemes and graphemes are always in synch. However, English must be an orthographic nightmare for Poles (and others), since the lack of harmonization in the latter areas is tremendous.

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Alcestis, you make a sound and articulate case for the English vs. Polish language(s). I wonder though how typical you are for the rest of both your age bracket as well as you fellow Poles.

My experience has been that often times, foreign learners become, how shall I put it gently, "far too cocky, far too soon" and frequently assume the relative ease with which Basic English flows, that this is the WHOLE of English, which it clearly isn't, even if the general world standard has been whittled down a tidy bit-:)

Several of my examples were in fact words with both silent letters, as well as the 'th'-sound. For non-Poles, a word like "POTRZEBOWAĆ" or, even for Poles I'm told, words with 'u' vs. 'ó', e.g. "Jurek" (and not "JÓrek" etc..) vs. "ogórek" (rather than "ogUrek"...)

can present both orthographical, not to mention phonetic, challenges. LOL

As a non-Pole, doing dictations for me at the start was torture: I couldn't see a difference between the word 'ugór' or' ógur', or 'ógór' etc....

I finally learned on the umpteenth bloody page of corrections, that it's 'ugór'.

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Good point, Gordy. If your native language is English, then Polish will put you through your paces! As was said however, if Nahuatl, Fijian etc. is the learner's mother tongue, Polish might then well be a piece of cake (..or pineapple, respectively LOL) -:).

Language / Dlaczego/Czemu - What is what? [22]

'Czemu?', derived from the similar Russian 'Poczemu?' (Why?) is colloquial Polish for standard 'Dlaczego?', and is strictly familiar!

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

Yo, guys! The toughest nut to crack on record remains Navajo, as I had posted here on PF many moons ago-:) Just check out a quick Wiki summary and you'll be saying, you foreign learners, "Gee, Polish's not THAT bad!" LOL

Language / What do you find difficult about learning Polish? [98]

ditto!

English starts (looking) super easy, then gets SUPER hard, if one wants to really master it on anything other than on a mere tourist level, that is.--:) LOL

Polish, as with most other languages on that list, starts out looking impossibly hard, but actually gets much easier with practice, as verbs classes, though numerous, follow regular patterns (even the irregularities become predictable) and pronounciation, once one gets past the consonant clusters, is a breeze compared with, say, French or English especially!