UK, Ireland / The Changing Face of Scotland - we need more immigrants! [178]


They do in the big cities and youd better believe it, I have lots of connections still to Edinburgh and there is a definate undercurrent of " oh yes,nice enough people,but to many of them",Im sure this is the same in other areas of higher level imigration.The fact it seems wider spread in England is that generally Poles are in more English towns and cities and in larger numbers,wait till little towns in scotland,reliant on seasonal work suddenly play host to a few thousand outsiders ready to take those jobs for min wage and dodgyier conditions and attitudes will soon come into line with the rest of UK.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]

So what,do you really think hitler cared whether your govt' liked him or not,he was still intent on wiping you off the map on his way to moscow.


yeah,crack on with the hogwash G'. so ,these Non existent allies who let all your soldiers reform on their lands......god, you really dont get it do you? If you'd had "no allies",as falkster says,you'd be speaking german now,if your bloodline hadnt been wiped out 30 odd years ago....

This really is like debating with a bunch of high school kids who have maybe seen a few war films......or shooting fish in a barrel.atleast the fish know when theyre shot....

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]


Thank you joe, yes,always been a soft spot for the old south here in Britain :) Shame bout the ole slavery thingy or Robert E may have had Redcoats as allies :)


Eh, what you on about? ?????? why is this question directed at me,and why the thread title as my Quotation????? Your just baffling me now my Serbian friend.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


Er,OK,lets look at this way,hypotheticaly;GB and France leave Poland to Hitler,both countries say,"stuff it,why waste our boys lives for those guys the other side of europe who ,actually,have never done anything for us in the past(blah blah,stopping communism in 1921......) and are in no position to do anything for us now". "We" let hitler invade without declaring war,no change,the panzers still roll east and the Tanki still roll west a fortnight later. Ok so far? Right,then,instead of having an enemy in the west to take care of(remember,"we" have stayed out of the war) hitler only has his main event to plan and build up for,the conquest of the Soviet Union. No one to fight in the west,Hitlers plans are not delayed and he is able to invade "Russia" on his schedule.(remember,all this time the remnents of the Polish Govt'and armed forces are still interned in Romania,as britain and france are not allies,and,oh gosh yes,Romania is allied to the nazis by now). the nazis also have more time and energy to shape the former Poland into their vison of the greater german reich and eliminate more potential enemies. The war in the east well that could have still gone either way,probably with an eventual german victory over the Red Army,but at the very least a stalemate as ,without Britain still(or ever having being) in the war the USA has no reason to interfere in a European war. Where would all this have left Poland,either crushed under Germany or to this day still a vassal state of the USSR.

As to why Britain formed an alliance with Poland,with hindsight,lord knows,all WW2 did for Britain was bancrupt it and cause the speedier loss of world influence it had enjoyed,for good or ill ,for the last 3 centuries. As to why the alliance,it was formalised only weeks before the panzars rolled,Polands high command had made all sorts of overly optomistic statements about being able to hold out against the nazis so Britain had no reason to belive on sept' the 3rd that Poland would collapse so rapidly,especially as the French were sworn to launch a land based offensive within 2 weeks.


If this is sarcasm my above answer covers it neatly I think. If not,sorry bout that :)


Well,again,where to start,how about giving the Poles the means to fight the Germans,freely,and without political interference as those in the east faced.

How about a home for your govt in exile which maintained autonamy and even its own SOE section( the only allied nation entrusted with a completely indipendant hand in this), all the RAF flights in support of your underground govt and army in Poland itself,yes,even the 200+ british and commenwealth flyers who lost their lives trying to resupply Warsaw. Never mind the home given to all those who had to stay out of Poland after the war.Sorry,but without Britain involved Polands soldiers would have rotted in romanian internment till the nazis got their hands on them.


This should never be underplayed,but,I doubt france would have been attacked had she also stayed out of the way,hitlers eyes were always east.


not stricktly true, they may have worn British style uniform,and been equipped and armed by the British but,and this is a big but,they were in the Polish not British army.


He didnt,at the time of the august uprising troop levels in the city were down to a token force,mostly made up of second line police reservists etc. The reason the rising ran into trouble was that the germans had no problems reinforcing their troops as the eastern front proper was only a matter of miles away.

Anyway,what has the Warsaw uprising got to do with britain in 1939?
Incidently,where do you think all the build up support for the rising came from,yep,thats right,Britain, Polands underground army sent its finest to train in britain,they then returned to Poland and formed the cadre's to train the wider home army. If this was on topic in the thread I could have posted plenty of links re britains material contributions to the rising,but its not,so I wont. They are however widely available on the net.


Indead,and being as the option was, "help us invade them or we invade you" I cant say that its right or proper to bring this up,especially in this thread. (of course,he may have meant when pre war Poland did a little border re aranging at the same time gitler marched on Prague??...)

History / Chicago Public Radio on *Polish* concentration camps [62]


no arguement there buddy.

History / Chicago Public Radio on *Polish* concentration camps [62]

no,not at all, the italian faschists historicaly had no official anti semitic policy for example. The rexists were a right wing anti communist league they are not the same by any means and trying to simplify matters doesnt do you justice.

History / Should goverments pull in war criminals from WWII? [33]

Im not sure what the difference is/was,they should all have been rotting in cells till atleast the mid 1960s. So, if they were suddenly deported in the 70s that just seems to be symptomatic of uncle sams double standards, Deporting one set of faschists while setting up Pinochet et al in south america.....


One thing wrong with that Carol,everything!
What on earth do you mean by the SS Ukraine who never did anything wrong? they were all trators who joined up with the nazis to fight against their countrymen!!!!!

News / Poland and Italy - similarities? [15]

yep, god awfull drivers and nice icecream :)

News / Illegal immigrant tries to get into Poland in a luggage [19]


wonder if he got the same reception from the baggage handlers :)

History / Should goverments pull in war criminals from WWII? [33]


Yes,many of them do,or did. Havnt you heard the expresion from the USA/USSR Space race of the 1950s/60s, that the race was contested between "our nazis and their nazis"? Even the post war OSS and later CIA openly admit,thanks to your freedom of information laws that many,many leading nazis were smuggled out of germany at the end of the war to work for good ole uncle sam.

History / Chicago Public Radio on *Polish* concentration camps [62]


nope, Nazis.or members of NASDAP were German or Folk Germans (including austrians etc) the Nazi Party was the national sociolist GERMAN workers party. There were Faschisti in italy,Rex'ists in Belgium Ustashe in Croatia Chetniks in Sebia, NSZ in Poland,Arrow cross in .....Faschist,not Nazi, semantics yes,but important semantics nonethe less.

History / The Impossible Escape - Proposed Feature Film about Polish GULAG survivor [8]


well,where do we start, The fact he sees a Yeti,the fact that no record of his companions exist in any country,the fact he claims to have spent time in a british hospital in india yet there are no records of him and no one remembers him (think about it,your a bored DR in india,a Pole walks in,tells you his amazing story and you completly forgetabout him?), the fact that his prison records have turned up in belruss and moscow cleary showing he was transported straight from russia to Iran with the rest of anders army..........

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SÅ?awomir_Rawicz

and many many other sources to discredit him as a complete Walter Mitty.

see also ;


news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/magazine/6098218.stm

History / Should goverments pull in war criminals from WWII? [33]


Carol yes,post war Britains record is rather patchy on this I will grant you,for example,all "cossaks"(who had faught under germany) were sent back to the Soviets after the war when a good half of them had never been "soviet citizens" yet an entire division of Ukrainianes was re settled here with no questions asked.The reason,an entire division of dedicated anti communists was a usefull asset at the start of the Cold War.Much the same reasoning applied in the States, Werner von Braun being the most obvious candidate, he of V1 and V2 fame and knowing participent in the nazi slave labour trade (his factories employed slaves he knew about) was snapped up by the US govt' and went on to kick start the Nasa space programe.....The US also allowed the vast majority of jappanesse war criminals to go unpunnished as japan was going to be a vital ally against the Reds.


I guess you could say ,every day I pass the local Ukrainiane club and know it was set up by former members of the SS Galizian Division I think of this a little . My village in the imidiate post war period was a melting pot,many Poles and an equal amont of Ukrainianes settled here,for around 5 or 10 years,so local word of mouth goes,these 2 groups stayed as far apart as possible,after this they began to realise a ashared feeling of exile and wartime misdeads by either side wre left in the past as new lives were being carved out.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


do you mean we are not a nation of inbred hillbilly cousin sh aggers? Yep,proud of that:)


Er, English is one of the Germanic languages origionationg in central and northern europe.


What are you rabbiting on about now, go rent Galipoli or lawrence of Arabia and see Britains relationship with the turks in full bloom. BTW Serbs were the bleedin ottomans jannissirees,so ner. The only time weve been chummy with the Turks is against the Russians,our Kings a Greek,not exactly turks best mate.....


Good,Im sure the rest of the Balkans will breath a sigh of relief,where are you all going, Africa,you lot will fit in right well in Somalia or Rwanda....

History / Should goverments pull in war criminals from WWII? [33]

Well Carol,where would you start,or rather stop. Do we include all the Allied veterns who commited war crimes,very often boasting about them in memoires (and no,I dont mean the "russkies" ) ,war criminals came in every uniform during WW2,things could get a little akward say when kind old Granpa Abe in Hokenscotch Idaho gets dragged to court for shooting unarmed ,surrendering " Japs" back on Okinawa (as any wartime footage shows GIs were very trigger hapy with the old "nips" ). Or do we hunt down the Officers responsible for the "No prisoner" orders that were a regular feature of allied life in Normandy and beyond,where for set times,a day,a weekend perhaps, all germans captured were shot out of hand,not for any tactical reasons,just for "revenge"?

All the above are War crimes under the nurenburg statues and Geneva conventions but only a handfull of allied soldiers were ever charged with these crimes,rather like today where a GI can take part in torture or a massacre such as haditha and serve a 12 month sentence......The victor is always blameless....not.

All this story seems to do is reinforce the idea that some war crimes are more heinous than others and some victims more deserving of justice.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


that would imply we were ever allied to serbia, Im pretty that has NEVER been the case,well at least since about 1914 anyway .
Crow, you do realise you are single handedly setting back Serbias inclusion in the world of non totally bonkers kill crazy blame every b ugger else for your problems nations, cripes,your more mussleman than the muslims :)

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]

how the hell has the bleedin' balkan conflict crept into this thread aswell?
Wroclaw Boy...Your patriotism is comendable,your grasp of history is however attrocious. You do us all a disservice arguing the defense for Britains actions while spouting nonsence regarding finland and operation barrbarosa.

BTW, happy Indipendance Day Finland :) (not sure from who your celebrating about but,ho hum...)
Harry,you are nearer the point,but, the tone taken with Carol was not very sporting, mis informed rather than lies would be closer to the "truth". She has obviously come to the topic with a passion and speaks like one just really getting deeper into the history. While here in europe refferences to WW2 are practically part of the language Im sure things are different in the States so her rather preaching tone may be more appropriatte for a less well informed American audiance.

As to the actual debate,this will continue to go round in circles, illinformed "experts" from all sides will chip in with heir two penneth worth and countless others will be "offended" by these remarks. Puzzler seemed to answer the questions initially posed by the thread topic with the simple and true statements that Britain,while going to war with Germany only because they invaded Poland was just not in any tactical or physical condition to retaliate untill weeks after Poland had been crushed,by which time,as far as was known in the west what was the hurry. "We" knew that hitler would eventually play his hand westwerds,the French,the larger of the 2 allies,were convinced they would smash the nazis on the Maginot line then proceed through defeated Germany whence all the huns would leave Poland like good little boys and go back to their barracks in der heimat. Bare in mind that the attrocities being played out in Poland,though very real,were A, not known about by the allies for some time due to lack of confirmed inteligence reports and B, even if they had been known,who would belive them,the british had been fed garbage about "le Bosche" bayoneting babies and raping nuns for the first 2 years of WW1,all of which had turned out to be lies and black propaganda,why should they belive the stories again? Just think, would you belive GW Bush again if he spoke about WMDs?

So in short. Britain only declared war on Germany because it invaded Poland. Poland was crushed within 3 weeks to all intents and purposes ceasing to exist under two invading empires. By this time the French army was still mobilizing and the British army was still on boats heading to France. What more could britain have done under the circumstances? Remember we are 3 years from thousand bomber raids and such like and we share no borders with germany. Very sorry you were invaded and all that but please, look at history like grown ups and stop blaming Britain for all your troubles.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]


maybe they do that in your village but the rest of the world dropped that sort of crap years ago......What is the Polish for RedNeck?

UK, Ireland / Are polish pupils harming native british childrens education? [280]


You may make a legitimate point if you actually quote all i said which was the above + unless you as a parent take responsibiliy to help teach them.Yes, and I was also living in Spain as a kid,where it was my parents responsibility to teach me spanish.......Kids pick up languages like a sponge,adults lose that,I know,my spanish is now almost non existent.


so not sure what we are disagreeing on. Maybe you just like to argue.......
what should I call you this time? how about Bob?

UK, Ireland / Anti-Polish sentiment of England [253]


Ah, the freindly english bobby is back on his beat. Havent you got any black people to beat up, asians to harras, children to arrest for playing hopscotch or maybe a brazilian electrician to blow away yet?

Wow,your such a bright and shinning example of british cultural superiority arnt you "plodski" england expects eh? expects better of its subjects you halfwitted monkey boy.

History / Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish [532]


really, so the etheopian jews are the same race as the spanish jews are they.Or more plainly if you like, Sammy Davis JNR wa the same race as Golda Meyer?

USA, Canada / Day before Schegen:Canada finds Polish passport, US deports,cut from home [44]


yes,but even the least educated "wetback" from central america knows you dont then try to cross international borders...........

UK, Ireland / Are polish pupils harming native british childrens education? [280]

If you take your kids to a forgiegn country where they dont understand the language,your a pretty crappy parent unless you try and sort things out yourself. We have enough "natives" who are willing to sit back and let the state take responsobility for their kids,we dont need anymore.

USA, Canada / Day before Schegen:Canada finds Polish passport, US deports,cut from home [44]


Good for you, though I think you may have missed the odd Geography lecture.......

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


All true, they fought like Tigers, and many had just lost there homeland to Soviet "liberation" but still fought on like hero's.


again,true,to a point,the road to Rome was already open,this doesnt minimise the sacrife or heroisim of the Polish effort. In fact,I think it emphisises it,and tragically mirrors a wider experiance. As they fought there way up the bloodsoaked slopes of cassino,past the bodies of britons,inians and new zealanders to raise the flag ,the main thrust of the war had already moved on,much as the t 34 s had already moved on through lwow. Everyone in Britain who has heard of Monte Cassino knows that it was the Poles who captured the hill in the end. What is still being hushed up to this day is that semi barbarian North african hill tribesmen had actually allready opened the road to Rome.Think about it,what country at that time (segregated america or colonial france/britain) wanted to admit that a bunch of " darkie" muslims had created a turning point in the liberation of Italy?

You could have mentioned the Polish 2nd armoured division closing the falaise gap and thus trapping the german army in normandy as a real turning point.

Or the Polish artilerymen who managed to swim accross the rhine at oosterbeek and helped the British hold out a little longer as being significant.

I get where you are coming from as the other poster seems to be implying that Polish forces contributed very little,this was not the case,but also,no countries forces on their own actually did anything that could be classed as a posotive turning point in the war.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]

That looks like Monte Cassino, 'fraid you yourself will have to do your research better. The only reason Cassino fell was from months of British and commenwealth assaults on it softning up the dwindling german defenders, followed by a french colonial assault down the liri valley that drew german reinforcments away and cut off supplies to the monestry, only then did a Polish unit appear on the scene, faught valiantly,no doubt about it, but were just the last tap on the egg that broke the shell.

All serious historians admit that the monestary hill,captured by the Poles, had lost all strategic and defensive value to the germans by this time,and that the real turning point in the battle was made by the North African tribesmen of the Free French further down the valley.

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]


you ignorent insulting muppet,2 sqdrns, 24 men(and the rest in RAF sqdrns.), real frikkin contribution.....shows how much you know about your history,the Poles flew hurricanes (as did 2 members of my imidiate family) in the BofB......


sceptics = sceptic tanks = Yanks...Brit forces slang.

UK, Ireland / Are polish pupils harming native british childrens education? [280]

he he he,LMAO big D, you were at that against me ages ago pal,all on record so,hush now l'il chil'

UK, Ireland / Are polish pupils harming native british childrens education? [280]

Sorry Miranda,was meant to be sorta ironic,not a dig:)

wow man,dont give out with the negative waves;)
well,of course,im sure some westerners became involved in transporting the looted treasure out of the country,but yes,in the main,it was locals looting in the chaos left behind when the iraqi army(previously guarding the museums) disapeared,yet the coalition forces were too overstreched to replace them. Mind you,some american fire suport bases have been set up on ancient sites and completly destroyed the archeolagy but,hey,thats war Im afraid(pointless as it was,the baskets...)

darius,whats the best way to put this? get over yerself,I suppose your the worlds expert on everything like so many of your countrymen,forced to work abroad for minimum wage because,despite being geniuses they cant manage to get work at home........

History / WW2: Britain Declares War on Germany to Save Poland [290]

puzz, dont get me started :)


sorry,to busy helping the septics in the desert,can you call back in 30 odd years?