History /
Poland and Ukraine [240]
Listen, Ironside. I know you are not good at all in history and I can feel in logic, but if you explain your thoughts at above-mentioned quotations with what you say about Ukraine and Ukrainians as nation as compared to French and Burgundians and Germans and Saxonians, I will appologize for saying that you lack logic, Ok? And if you avoid that, then what I felt will just be true. I will accept an answer of no-existence of all 3 mentioned nations before 1812 (as was your statement in previous #).
Im saying that all connections that you claim to be between modern day ukrainians and cossacks from the past is not as important and significant as you think.
I think that there is no continuity between 17th century cossacks and 19th century ukrainians. The fact is ukrainians are one of the youngest nations in Europe - nothing wrong with it.
You had no litertaure, no elite, no dynasty or territory you could claim as your own no before 1848 anyway - take or leave a few years.
There never existed an independent ukrainian state before 1990, so what are we talking about?
The religion used by Moscow to rule over you, or language considered to be dialect even by yourselfs before 1848.
When a grup of the educated poeple which felt themselfs to be different - no Poles and no Russians but Ukrainians - they started looking for roots and naturaly tended to view past in the light of the existence of the ukrainian nation. Assigning motivations to the facts which could be explained qiute differently.
Well, differences beween Poles and Ukrainians were there in the first place but no greater then between Saxsonians and Bavarians for example.
If history would have taken other track those differences may have seen as those between Poles and mazowians.
Predestination is a concept I dont belive in!
There is no general rule by which one can explaine everything, to talk about France and talk about Germany is a different kettle of fish.
As for Germans they had a few coutrys very much unlike Ukraine, they had elite and language common for educated people although languages used in particural germanic states were different.
Germans belived to be a family but it could be said about Poles and Ukrainians.Decisive factor in creation of the single german nation and state was a war.
As you know one of those states conquered most of the remaining states.
Do you understand my postion, now, Nathan?
