History / Serbian contribution to Poland's independance after WWI [70]


How do you think the EU works?
Sending their Gestapo to terrorize your leaders???

What is hindering your officials to build up sympathies and friendship between each other for mutual assistance?
As it was for example honestly liking and personal friendship as between Schröder and Putin or pragmatic common interests as between Kohl and Mitterrand?

Why do you blame always the big bad Germans when reality doesn't keep up with your far fetched dreams?
That is not only cowardly but also totally wrong, that mindset will get you NOWHERE!


Such crap!
The EU did more for slavic interests than any other ever before...
First Poles got the possibility to swarm the EU countries in search for work. Now (for many years) Poland get's so much support and investments from fellow EU-members that soon people will come to Poland in search for work.

Where would Poland and the other EU-newbies be today without the EU.

If you don't like it why don't you leave! I so doubt you can do it alone better...

Language / How does Polish sound to you? How to make Polish sound more pleasurable? [100]

And that is an aquired taste and differs greatly, period! ;)

Language / How does Polish sound to you? How to make Polish sound more pleasurable? [100]


I don't think so!
That is lingering from WWII and the propaganda (also newsreels, to many movies about marching soldiers, barking officers and spitting Hitlers).
It also did hell to the german image in public and if you don't like a people generally you are also not inclinced to like their language. (I personally don't like french and can't stand italian for more than ten minutes, they grate on my nerves)

But that is changing now, people around the world are singing along to Rammstein or Tokio Hotel, in german!

...before the wars german was known as the language of the poets!

News / NEW PATRIOT MISSILES FOR POLAND [178]

...wait for Seanies links to youtube! ;)

News / NEW PATRIOT MISSILES FOR POLAND [178]


Germans of course! Lodz loves Germans....he loves EVERYBODYYYYYY! :)

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]


The coming up of nationstates was the beginning of the end of territories and peoples like Silesia...
I'm glad we see the end of these nationstates now (in the EU) and the return to the regions in Europe!

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]


Well, the Silesians there lived there since ages, even before there was a Germany or a Poland!

Forget the nationborders for once...not fitting into any clear border was the drama of the Silesians!
They were a great mix of all the main peoples in this territory, forced to choose allegiances which differed from family to family, split between the new nation-states and fighted over.

The winner got it all and decided to be done with the "non-fitting" Silesians...


Maybe the Germans, during their centuries of living in many independent regions (over 500 it was once) have just a better understanding for cultural and regional differences than Poles who more or less always seemed very "blocky"....

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]

I'm not sure you understand the Silesian ethnos Gumi.

Being Silesian means to be of german, bohemian heritage, mix in with some polish...the far majority had to leave after WWII and living their german-silesian heritage was for sure not encouraged during the post war times for the survivors who still stayed....

There was an ongoing exodus to Germany during all the decades till the iron curtain fell and Poland became a member of the EU.
Those who didn't had to leave directly after the war dripped out of Poland during 60 years of oppression.

There is not much left...

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]

Well, I read the translated page of Wilmowski and there they say he chose Germany during WWII and relocated to Germany and died there.


A typical german-polish story of that time...


The silesian ethnos is extinct.
Nothing and nobody to give minority rights to anymore.
There might be one or two small pockets but they will vanish soon too..

Silesia got repopulated by eastern Poles and others who lost their homes in what is now western Ukraine, true bred Poles.
Just living now in the region Silesia doesn't make them to that precious, unique brand what Silesians once were.

(Doesn't mean there won't develop something similiar again during the next generations and centuries as Silesia will become once more the crosspoint between Poles, Germans and Czechs)

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]


Well, they were Poles, weren't they???

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]


'msorry too
*goes for more coffee*

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]


Did you somehow missed the post about the differences?


Well, they don't demand special minority rights as natives, don't they!


That's why I don't trust people who claim loudly they would have been brave resisters of course in this time...

I would had been born in german Silesia at that time and knowing me I would had been patriotic and even nationalistic and I would had fallen for Hitler for his promise to get Danzig back alone...yeah I admit it! I don't judge the people who fell into the same trap, it were millions...I would never judge them with hindsight!

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]

Interesting....a Volksliste Silesian....

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]


Why?

The Poles who came to Germany during the course of centuries came for work and a better life, a better future for themselves and their children.

They got it (mostly)...why is that not enough for you? They have no special rights on Germany, it was never their homeland, that was Poland, which they left, voluntarily!

PS: But when you look deeper there you will find lot's of Germans in the parliament with polish roots, no doubt about it!

PPS: After your logic Polonia in the US or in the UK should demand seats in the government too...;)
(Or the Germans there....)

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]

Nope...that are two different things.

Take the Danish for example. They live in a place where once where Danish territory but fell to Germany during the course of history. Now the still there living Danes have special rights as have the Germans on the other side of the border.

Or the Sorbs, a people which were already living in this area as there wasn't a Germany at all.

They were never immigrants (political or economical)!

The same with the Germans in what is now Poland. Neither did they murder 6 million Poles nor are they immigrants into Poland, but lived there for ages already. They only became a minority in your country because of shifting of borders.

(And after your unbelievable sign of forgiveness of sending millions of them packing and leaving at gunpoint)

All minorities yes, but totally different pair of shoes.

The ordinary immigrants like Poles or Turks have their rights and duties written down in the EU laws all EU members have to adhere to.


Well, I doubt they felt prospering as more than a million left for Germany again during the 80s, leaving now a tiny rest of barely 150.000 what has once been MILLLIONS!

Life / GERMANS LIVING IN POLAND vs POLES LIVING IN GERMANY [30]

Poles want to immigrate to Germany (Polonia in Germany biggest in Europe and second biggest overall)
Germans don't want to immigrate to Poland (in big numbers)

Poles are represented in german football Mannschaft/Germans are not represented in polish football team...


Torqi,

the main difference is the kind of minority here.
German and polish governments distinguish between native minorities and immigrants.

Look here:

ruf.rice.edu/~sarmatia/401/212schlott.html


These are all native minorities in Germany and Poland would had much more native Germans hadn't there been the expulsions.

So no, immigrant Poles will never get the same rights as Danes or Sorbs nor will immigrating Germans to Poland get the same rights like the tiny rest of native Germans who were already there before the war and still stayed somehow.

The usual immigrant (polish or german) falls under the EU laws with all your usual rights and duties.
And there won't be any changes...

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

Actually I object to calling "Revisionism" as something inherently bad.

Especially in Europe mainstream history became so much politicized and biased during the wars (hot and cold) that much revisionism is needed to get things straight, to pull the beloved hidden skeletons out of the closets, to shake up comfortable lies who became truths just because they got repeated so often.

I admire historians who go up against the mainstream and get so much flak for it (and hope their researches and findings are sound).

Revisionism isn't a despicable evil but a necessary and good undertaking. Even if alone the discussions about it are a way forward...

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


That must suck! :(
(I just thought you were a tiny bit more cranky than usually)


Ooooh...here I can agree heartily!
Too bad you can't enjoy my round of cool german beer...;)


An EU army would help the unifying and integrational process along I would think...*looks around for moderator*...Now I'm off topic!

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


You can't stop it, can't you...


Well, I thought so before for a long time too but I came to another conclusion over the years studying history.

I now doubt there will be ever one and only true point of view of history for all people. That is an illusion.
We need to accept that there ARE and always will be different view points. It just change to much from the where the people look on, in which time, in which political or cultural environment etc.

As long as we want to force our own viewpoint onto others so long it will be bad blood....

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


Actually a Germanic p*issed there first (after a Celt probably).
So please put your d*ick back into your pants...


Umm...better not.
Or next you want to tell me that actually the Poles partitioned the Germans and not the other way around!

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


Well..according to your logic he was much to early for the last 120 years you allow the Germans!

Don't you see how ridiculous all these discussions are? You can't deny facts nor can we change what has happened.
What are you arguing about???

That is so yesteryear...

All these lands will be in the coming generations reworked by Poles AND Germans together anyhow...when Ukraine makes it into the EU Lwow will be easier to reach for Poles, if not then not.

Actually i'm losing in these kind of discussions!
If you get some satisfaction out of these d*ick fighting...your pleasure...

*takes helmet*

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


It's totally idiotic and moot discussion and I wonder how long this thread already has gone...


Well, so it is now and it will stay polish as will Breslau, facts of the history.
So it is with Lwow...which will stay Ukrainian.

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

You don't believe honestly that in those territories Germans lived and thrived for 120 years only?
Should I show you the list of Danzig again with poets, scientists, famous people from back to 1400?
What about Kopernikus? Your so called most famous polish son was at least half german...

You are kidding, don't you!

You know tolerance and the will to work together has to go both ways. When one part only always tries to downtalk the other and to deny their shared past that bears no positive future at all. I can play that game to!

The borders changed, nationstates developed, war and peace interchanged but in these lands have ALWAYS Poles lived besides Germans! Even before there was a polish king or a prussian king or whatever...

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]

Nee...that part where he sings he is of german blood....
(if that isn't an invitation for invasion then what is?)

The bicycles stay in the family anyhow...:)


humms

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


Rather tell the folks here more about the dutch hymn...;)

History / Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land? [302]


Well, in the beginning you owned sh'it as Poles were late comer to these lands after Celts and Germanics! You stole it first!
See? Just in case you missed history class....no Poles, but Germans where now is Poland.



But when a people workes, builds and lives in these lands for centuries it has a claim on it...in these lands it's both, Poles and Germans.

So cut the crap of "Germans stole polish lands". Thank you!

Oh and Ironside, better forget your fantasy brain games...you will get Lwow back when Germany get's Breslau and Danzig back.

News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]

Because it is...

A stab in the back will be always much worse than the fight with the enemy up front!

News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]


Well...history is not everybody's forte, isn't it.


*nods* Exactly!

News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]


Well...that's why the Treaty of Versailles couldn't work.
Poland did not only aquire masses of german territory but also german cities, towns and millions of Germans!
You don't really expected them to die for despised Poland, don't you...
The Poles during the partititions didn't became Prussians, Austrians or Russians, didn't they?

Traitors to their prussian, austrian, russian rulership too?

News / The Lisbon Treaty and land reperations [74]


But much more to the side of reality as you would like to think!
It happened to german Alsatians too and in many other countries who got their hands on german soldiers from their countries...
The men were faced with two dreary choices, changing sides very quickly or getting shot as "traitors"!
Don't tell me it isn't true...

Many who worked or fighted for Germany were neither pressed nor forced but of course after the war was lost nobody would admit it to save their skin. Now everybody and his grandmom became a victim suddenly...get real man!