Court will decide who has best legal team/most money.......
I haven't seen you atacing so strong Daily Mail which was openly anty Polish or journalist form The Times (Giles Coren) calling Poles Fu**ing Polacks ...
I don't know if Farfał said that or not, he claims that Gazeta Polska lies and as I am waiting for court decision.
If he said so it was bad and wrong but this hasn't been proven yet.
Farfał said that he was innocent and he would sue “Gazeta Polska” for telling lies. “Everyone can testify that those worlds are lies. It is provocation against me” – wrote Farfał in his official statement.
First of all it is rumour and court will decide who is right.
Im am currious how the hell in 1970s (long after the WWII) form Poland emigrated 1 mln ethnic Germans ...
The truth is that those ethnic Germans or simple people who had German names and were leaving in areas populated mostly by Poles and considered themselves Polish (and their neighbours conisedered them as such just after WWII) weren't forced to leave Poland. In 1970s it was more than clear that life in communist Poland isn't comfortable and 1 mln ethnic Germans left Poland using "blood law".
Of course Germans loyal for Hitler were much different story.
Czechs have up part of their country for Germany (under the British and French preassure) and later were beaten by Germany. Soviets proposed them alliance as well. Such alliance in 30's would had been their the best choice in 20th century.
Erm...officially you WERE on the winners side! You were allies with Stalin...
Yes but in case of alliance with Soviets in 1939 Poland would had been in much better condition after the war. Bad sides of communist system - I mean crimes commited on Polish or Russian nation would had been the same as it was in 1945.
He wanted Poland as a buffer and Germany as far back to the west as possible.
True, but in 1939 it was the best choice for Poland.
Well...The Wehrmacht marched through Poland in a month and came till near Moscow two years later...Poland would have been gobbled up by either one, so or so! The polish mouth always bigger than anything else!
Well Poland fighting together with Soviets against the Germans would be on winers sides after WWII. Poland wasn't strong enought to win over Germany in 1939 but I am not so sure about German invasion on Poland with Soviets on its soil. What is more after the war regianed western Poland would be in Polish borders and of course Lwów would be in Poland as well. War would be much shorter and for sure Poland wouldn't be devastated as it was in reallity. Finaly Poland was in soviet block after 1945 I don't see the difference between aliance with Soviets in 1939.
And face of Poland in Krakow, not in Marienburg, Danzig or Posen.
Lwów was called by the Germans Lemberg.
There i one problem Nathan ... Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and killed 6 milions of Polish citizens, Poland was 4th any -German force on all over the world, Poland had the strongest anty-German resistance underground in Europe. Wrocław is Polish in result of Potsdam conference, it is shame that German allies have stolen Lwów.
Ukranians were cleanisng Polish towns with German troops.
In result of which agreement German allies received Lwów ?
2. There is Ukraine proper and polish terrytories stolen by Stalin which are today part od ukrainian state!
Are there anny etnic Russians in Lwów or again everything bad what happend on east is the Russians and everything good is the Ukrianians. ?
3.In the later there is grup of people which are calling themself urainians but which differ from Ukrainians mentaly, have different religion and history.In 1918 they atempted to bulid separate state!
Poles were in majority in Lwów.
Well, Poland can support Ukraine proper if they ask for help but there is always price.
I am showing the price.
I am not talking about changing the borders but I am sure that in case of Ukrianes integration with the west they will become Polish worst enemy in this institutions.
After Nathan defense nobody should have any doubts that Ukrainians were stealing Russian gas ... as they steal Polish companies in Ukraine and all they time they lie in the same way.
Example of one of the massacres: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huta_Pieniacka_massacre
Huta Pieniacka massacre was a punitive military operation against the inhabitants of the ethnically Polish village Huta Pieniacka located in Western Ukraine, which took place on February 28, 1944.
Nathan Ukrainian thug where are the Poles who allegedly oppressed you in Western Ukraine ? They disappeared or committed group suicide ?
Volunteers. You have different people in every country, you can't have 'em all perfect and have the same opinion about the enemies, right?
Ukrainian president ..
ukraines.fr/spip.php?article30
Historian: "Yushchenko's father collaborated with Nazi while being in captivity"
Saturday 19 April 2008, by Regnum "Biography of the Ukrainian president's father has become one of the most discussed topics in Ukraine in recent years...From the very start of his public career Viktor Yushchenko has been declaring a specific vision of the history of World War Two, has not been shy of his sympathy for the Nazi units of OUN-UPA and has not been drawing the line between Soviet soldiers and Nazis. Some of his opponents considered Yushchenko's revisionism as the result of his education in the family, that is why the personality of his father was drawing special attention; it was known that Andrei Yushchenko spent most time during the war in captivity."
Ukrianian president loves UPA and SS...
Spot on this:
Ads praising Nazi division put up in Ukraine
Lets open the eyes and see the true face of Ukrainie ...
As I've said :
NOTHING CHANGED THERE. If they want some support they should aks the Germans for help. Not Poland.
The SS Division Galicia or 14th Grenadier Division of the Waffen SS 'Galicia' (1st Ukrainian) was a military formation in the Waffen-SS and SS, during World War II. Formed in 1943 of volunteers from Galicia in western Ukraine
The Division destroyed several Polish communities in western Ukraine during the winter and spring of 1944. [29] On February 23, 1944 it is alleged that two of the Division's units (the 4th and 5th regiments) - the Division was in training until May, 1944 - took part in a police action against Soviet and Polish Armia Krajowa partisans in the village of Huta Pieniacka, which had served as a shelter for Jews
Former UPA and SS-Galizien members with children from the Ukrainian scout organization Plast pose for photos shortly after the Anniversary of the UPA ceremony in Berezhany, western Ukraine.
Polish vilage after Ukrainan action.
Russian NKVD dressed Ukrainians in SS uniforms ? I don't think so.
You want to make Ukrianians form people who don't want to be like you. Your former Nazi culture is weak and the Cossacks descendants don't want to be Ukrianians ...
Come back when Cossacks will wave your flag instead of Russian flag. Now history of wars between Poland and the Cossacks is Polish - Russian problem.
What is more, stop oppres them and give for the Cossacks freedom which they love.
Of course, they used each other to fight common enemy - what is wrong in here?Yes, these people are suppressed by me, Salamon.
Why you oppres the Cossacks ? Why you steal their history for your nationalistic needs. Cossacks have nothing to do with western Ukraine. What is more they consider you to be Nazi collaborators... Why you come here and cliam that Cossacks were Ukrainian and that is why you murdered Polish population in Western Ukriaine when in the same moment you oppres them.
You come here and talk about the Cossacks ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossacks
The term Cossacks (Ukrainian: Козаки́, Kozaki; Russian: Каза́ки́, Kazaki; Polish: Kozacy) is applied to specific militaristic communities of various ethnicities living in the steppe regions of Ukraine and also southern Russia.
It seems that they prefere to be Russian than Ukrianian so how can you talk about Polish - Ukrianian wars when this people don't want to be Ukrainian it is not your history. It is history of people who prefere to be Russians ... and they are suppresed by your nationalistic state.
Here is your history : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
from late spring 1944, the UPA and OUN-B - faced with Soviet advances - also cooperated with the German Wehrmacht and Waffen SS, SiPo and SD against the Soviets and Poles. The army played a substantial role in the killing and ethnic cleansing of much of Western Ukraine's Polish population.
Outside of Western Ukraine, support was minimal, and the majority of the Soviet (eastern) Ukrainian population considered the OUN/UPA to have been primarily collaborators with the Germans.
Yes, especially russians can say that after murdering millions of people, nations and cultures. Of course, we are.
So now you are going to give the choice for people living in eastern Ukraine - die or be Ukrainian ?
It seems that people you claim to be first Ukrainians (the Cossacks inhabited eastern Ukraine) don't want to be Ukrainian ... so where does your history start ?
Give me an example where exactly they are suppressed. Facts, please and links, but not to ru.com if you can.
Percentage of people who prefer to use Russian according to 2003 survey by KIIS (in macroregions).
This people are strongly pro - Russian and don't want to see Ukriane in western structures. In case of Ukrainians membership in NATO there is going to be home war.
In my opinion Russians are absolutely right when they cliam that Ukraine is too nationalistic country.
So why do you suppres so strongly Russians in eastern part of Ukriane and try to Ukrainize them ? Give them freedom of choice. Why you force them to speak Ukrianian if they prefere to be Russian and to speak Russian ? :)
Name Ukraine was invented by Poles. U - kraja (border), I have heard that Ukrainians are stealing whole Polish companies who invested there ... they simple come and tell that this factory should be their - as to me nothing changed there.
Honestly saying Poland is the last country in Europe who supports them and in my opinion they are not able for selfgovern - lets see how they are going to govern their country without support of Polish pan's they hate so much.
I prefere Russians and our in some cases tense contacts with them are caused by Polish support for Ukrainians. Lets forget about them and talk straight to Russians because they are nation with common sense.
Crimeria is Russian - nobody considers themselves as Ukrainian there. In case of integration with NATO there will be rebel. Makeing form them Ukrianians is like makeing from east Germans - sparate Slavic nation - racist non sens.
I have video about region's situation in 10th century.
I agree with Crow that Slavic people of todays eastern Germany were assimilated by Germans. Even Otto von Bismark mentioned it in one of his speaches.
He probably desired only to have them acknowledge dependency in some way, as Henry II did with the Poles. In time the goal became the direct possession of Slavia.
After bloodily suppressing a revolt of the citizens of Pavia, Henry remained there until May 25, when, feeling that Italy could be considered settled, he decided to return to Germany through the Saint Gotthard Pass. From Germany he launched a second campaign against Boleslaus, allying with the pagan Liutitians against the Christian Poles and waged successful campaigns that culminated in a lasting compromise peace with the Poles in 1018: Boleslaus was allowed to retain Lusatia and Meissen as fiefs, but had to give up Bohemia, which he had recently conquered.
People that Crow talks about were Polabian Slavs :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polabian_Slavs
Polabian Slavs is a collective term applied to a number of West Slavic tribes who lived along the Elbe, between the Baltic Sea to the north, the Saale[1] and Limes Saxonicus[2] to the west, the Sudetes and Franconia to the south, and Poland to the east. They have also been known as the Elbe Slavs and as Wends. Their name derives from the Slavic po, meaning "by/next to/along", and the Slavic name for the river (Labe in Czech)
Some people saved their heritage :
The Polabian language is now extinct. However, both Sorbian languages are spoken by approximately 60,000 inhabitants of the region and the languages are regarded by the government of Germany as official languages of the region.
Crow is right Germans are much more mixed than some people would think ...
Is there something about Lwow deputies or not ? Is there something about their apeal? Why do you avoid parts of article which says true wrolds about Ukrainian DEMANDS?
Ok Nathah opinion is not important anny more. WWII is old story.
If somebody looks on other nations by prism of history... Of course Ukrainians have done much more bad for Poland than Russians ...
For me history isn't so important.
Lets face it anty - Polish views are present in current western Ukraine. If we are not racist this country has much more potential than Poland (bigger population, terytory ect) .
We must think if Ukraine in current sharply nationalistic shape is in Polish interest ? Of course it is in American interest but I am not so sure if it is in long term geopolitical Polish interest to support nationalistic part of their society.
I haven't been writtng about Ukrianian ambassy. This artcile points out that Municipal authorities form Lwów DEMAND this monument to be build. They made special appeal in this case so you avoid facts about which I am talking about.
I don't think any reasonable person in Lviv wants it.
Majority or your municipal authorities form Lwów want it. Read the article.
UPA didn't collaborate with Germans. UPA fought against Germans as well as Russians. I can't deny what I can't prove, but Volyn' killings of Poles were committed mostly by KGB squadrons
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Insurgent_Army
During its existence, the Ukrainian Insurgent Army fought a large variety of military forces, including the Nazi German Wehrmacht and Waffen SS, the Polish underground army (Armia Krajowa) and Soviet forces - including Soviet partisans, the Red Army, NKVD, SMERSH, MGB and MVD. From late spring 1944, the UPA and OUN-B - faced with Soviet advances - also cooperated with the German Wehrmacht and Waffen SS, SiPo and SD against the Soviets and Poles. The army played a substantial role in the killing and ethnic cleansing of much of Western Ukraine's Polish population. In the last year of the war, the Polish communist army - the Armia Ludowa - was massively attacked by the UPA.
Believe me or not but AK (Home Army) and Polish communist have the knowledge against who they were fighting against, there is a lot of books about it.
I thought that Poland and Ukraine were going in good direction ... but unfortunately it seems that somebody tests Polands good will or maybe it is sign what is going to happen when Ukraine will be realy strong ...
Municipal authorities form Lwów (yes the city which was in 60% Polish before the war) demand UPA monument to be build in Poland (yes DEMAND ) ... UPA is organization which in collaboration with Hitler Germany ethnically cleansed Polish towns ...
Lviv City Council calls for an official protest of the Ukrainian authorities to destroy the monument of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA ) in the Bieszczady mountain Chryszczata in the Podkarpackie region - reported local media.
In this day adopted an appeal to the President of Ukraine Viktor Yushchenko , the foreign ministry in Kiev and the Consulate of Poland in Lviv councilors tagged events Chryszczata as the " act of vandalism " .
They want to destroy the Polish-Ukrainian friendship
The Guardian: Why pianist Krystian Zimerman was right to speak out guardian.co.uk/music/tomserviceblog/2009/apr/28/pianist-krystian-zimerman
Polish pianist Krystian Zimerman's political speech during his debut recital at Walt Disney Hall in Los Angeles shocked his Californian audience. He told the Americans to "Get your hands off my country", before he played Polish composer Karol Szymanowski's Variations on a Polish Theme
When I met Zimerman last year to interview him for Music Matters, I asked him if he really thought this kind of protest was the best way of making a point. His answer was that he couldn't in good conscience play to an audience in a country whose political leaders he disagreed with, without making some kind of stand. Zimerman isn't naïve enough to think that his way of speaking out is going to change US policy in Eastern Europe. But he feels his music making can only speak to listeners who understand where he's coming from.
Due to its ties with the all-national Armia Krajowa, after the war the Communist authorities of Poland suppressed the publication of books and articles on ŻZW whose role in the uprising in the ghetto was undervalued, as opposed to the Jewish Fighting Organization with less ties to the Polish AK.
