History / Poland and Ukraine [240]


What did you mean by that, Einstein?

As I said ignorance cannot be insulted. Sticks will keep on selling BS on this forum about their superiority over Brits, Ukrainians, Germans etc. Spilling some garbage about some Slavia insanity. Who wants to be even close to that retarded companionship? Who wants it? Personally I would deal with anyone in the world, but you. You see - you are so scared of being inferior that you end up licking others' soles - US, Germany, Russian etc. But why do you spill your retarded anger in childish statements like these. Ironside wasn't able even to check dates like 1990 and 1848 which are wrong at best. Read your verbal diarrhea and tell me that you believe in it.


Exactly.

History / Taras Bulba - the movie [115]


Can you read, professor Ironside? Zajac defends Polish actions because he says the murders commited on innocent people by Polish were less murderous since they were retaliation of Ukrainian actions. That's all I wanted to say and I don't agree with prosecutor Zajac here. I don't defend murders on either side. They were outrageous and unjust. Both sides killed innocent people and I am not going to weigh liters of blood here. My words were more directed to the prosecutor than to Porzeczka. I wish you, Ironside, could enjoy better proficiency in English to understand what I am saying.


Well, it is our territory and no one is going to move anywhere. We are not guests, we are propriators, Ironside, don't forget.


What about the good of insane people, why don't you think of them and yourself? How will you protect that category, professor Ironside?

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


Ironside, where are you? Does this quote resemble you something?

History / Poland and Ukraine [240]


Ignorance can't be insulted.

History / Poland and Ukraine [240]


Yes, I understand your position - you stay on all four and suck like there is no tomorrow ;) But it is Ok. I am not going to write a book here because books are written for people willing to learn and grow intellectually, not for arrogant scum that knows only one's dick and looks for the way to suck it. There is so much BS in what you said that I find only the last sentence worth of quoting.

History / Taras Bulba - the movie [115]

Thank you, Porzeczka, for the info. As it is said the investigation still is going on. But there are couple of things that I would like to point out. Two hypotheses were discarded only on the notion that it happened within short period of time. Personally I wouldn't consider it valid and jump to the conclusion that the organization was totally responsable for the murders that occurred. As Zajac said the leaders of the organization didn't know of what was going on at that region at that time. Many massacres, and I don't deny them, were committed by Ukrainian peasants who just took forks, scythes etc. and went on killing people. It wasn't organized as many want it to present. You have to take into consideration that Polish government did in the Polonization that started in 1930s were thousands of Ukrainian schools, churches were closed, people were forced to take baptism and marriages only in Catholic churches. Groups of Strzelcy were patrolling villages and for no reason whatsoever attacking people, imprisoning peasants and robbing them off their possessions. Rapes and murders were not something out of place in these times. Again they killed Poles - no denial in here. I don't defend them, but on the other hand I see what pushed them to such actions which remind me of 17th century were again religion, serfdom and culture were forced on peasants as well which led to massive revolts and massacres. According to Polish historians 60,000 Poles were murdered, according to Ukrainian - 20-30 thousand Ukrainians were murdered in retaliation. Zajac said that retaliation is less murderous because it was done in consequence of murders committed by Ukrainians. He only forgets that what these people did were a consequences of something before in history. Porzeczka, read even only Wikipedia on Polonization starting from the fall of Habsburg empire in 1918 and till 1939. You will see the seed brewing there. If there is an excuse it has to come from both sides and not organizations but people like you and me.

History / Taras Bulba - the movie [115]


I said if there are documents with names of Ukrainians from UPA as well as the murders they are linked to. You say I am bezczelny - why? That you present me the names of the people murdered and Wikipedia unsupported materials, but how do they link these names to UPA and not to NKVD? I can print you the names of Ukrainians who were murdered in Volyn' at that time, but as long as I don't have supporting documents to link them to Armija Krajowa or NKVD, I cannot accuse anyone, right? Our presidents shook their hands in mutual understanding of what happened in the past and I think it is pointless to bring it up again. And you know why? Because it can't be solved unless many archives which are secret nowadays hold a lot of info on that time. When all the guys who are linked to the murders are dead as well as when governments won't see anymore of necessity to hold them secret, then only we will know the truth. But it is way into the future and we, you and me, won't live that long. So don't tell me that I am "tak bezczelny", because I have more heart than you think and I don't want anything like that happen in our history again.

History / Taras Bulba - the movie [115]


Listen, Russian dude. Do you speak Polish? Because I do and I know what the article says. Ask any Polish here and they will tell you that there is no mentioning of "majority" as you put it and no saying of anyone demanding directly Poland or its embassy or even Consulate which is itself located in Lviv. I would recommend you learn English first because "ambassy" is not a word and then practice your Polish a bit to understand better the articles.

I didn't deny their fight with Germans, Russians or Polish AK or Polish communists. If there are documents that support UPA killings of innocent Poles, I bring my apology to all Polish people and feel deeply sorry that it happened. But as I know KGB documents of Volyn' and Katyn' are still lying in Moskow's archives and they will definately shed a light on what happened, when and how many people and who murdered. People, like Salomon, who works for Russians propoganda and tries to pour oil into the fire by saying


are ones who eagerly desire break our friendly relations especially those we made in the recent years. Keep on making movies, Salomon Salomonowich.
I hope kacapy like Salomon will eventually get tired of writing BS on this forum.

History / Taras Bulba - the movie [115]

Listen, Salamon. Przestan pierdolic. As you can read from the article neither ambassy of Poland in Kijiv, nor Polish Consulate in Lviv received any "demand" as you put it. If there are people who want to build a monument on Polish territory, they should write a letter to one of these institutions. And I don't see any letter mentioned in the article - this is first of all. Secondly, if Polish city council decided that existance of this monument was agreed upon before, then it should be rebuilt. If not, then there it is not supposed to be, because it is Polish land - point. If Polish people don't want a monument - then there is no monument and no one can impose on them anything. From the article you can clearly see that this petition has absolutely no seriousness whatsoever because even consulate wasn't informed. And even if in the future they'll ask about it (Ukrainians are not Russians, we ask, not DEMAND) and Poland don't feel like it then there is no point of arguing anymore.

I don't think any reasonable person in Lviv wants it. But strange ones are everywhere.


UPA didn't collaborate with Germans. UPA fought against Germans as well as Russians. I can't deny what I can't prove, but Volyn' killings of Poles were committed mostly by KGB squadrons, the same pertains to Polish lands, where they put on UPA uniform and killed innocent Poles just to undermine its existance in resistance forces. KGB documents remain closed in this matter as well as matter of Katyn' and many other Russian KGB murders. Why are you so scared to reveal your documents in regard to Volyn' and Katyn', hm?

History / Taras Bulba - the movie [115]


Oh yeh! BS, Alex. Did you get from here?
"Russians like to use this fact to prove that the great writer had more in common with Russia than with Ukraine. This boorish Russian rejection of Gogol's Ukrainian roots is epitomized for the Ukrainians by former the Gazprom head, prime minister, and now Russia's ambassador to Ukraine Viktor Chernomyrdin. In a recent interview to a Ukrainian glossy, Chernomyrdin slated Ukrainian cultural politics, thereby demonstrating profound ignorance of the issue. "For instance, let's take the case of a student here who decides to read the recent Ukrainian translation of Gogol's Taras Bulba," said Chernomyrdin. "What does he discover? In this so-called 'translation' all mentions of Rus are omitted. And the student will really believe that this is what Gogol wrote. But Nikolai Vasilevich did not write this. He couldn't have written it. This is the result of 'diplomatic' translations - it's a disgrace."

In saying this, Chernomyrdin simply appears to be unawareof the fact that there was a first version of Taras Bulba. In the first version, the Russian national theme, so strong in the second, is almost absent, and Gogol's celebration of Cossack derring-do takes pride of place. And whereas in the second, the hero Taras Bulba is burnt alive by the Poles, with a vision of a Russian ruler coming who will set wrongs to right, in the first version he lives to fight another day. "Our favorite ambassador yet again wanted only the best," said Vasil Shlyar, a translator and well-known Ukrainian writer. "But the main thing is that Gogol [who famously burnt his sequel to the classic Dead Souls shortly before his death] never burned the first edition of Taras Bulba. Nor did the first edition burn Taras Bulba himself."

Please, note my bold underlinings - a lot to think of. Russians as always trying to undermine everything. Alex, you read in Ukrainian "Taras Bulba" from the mouth of your retarded ambassador. It is not nice to lie, poliglot ;)


Tolik? Haha. What is delirious in my reasonings, Alex?


Correct, slo :) I wouldn't deny Cossacks calling it Kacapinia though.


Ironside, you are beyond arrogance, but it is nothing to be surprised of - it comes with milk (I knew many like you) ;) Today, there is only one country as well - Kingdom of Poland ;)

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


Listen, Ironside. I know you are not good at all in history and I can feel in logic, but if you explain your thoughts at above-mentioned quotations with what you say about Ukraine and Ukrainians as nation as compared to French and Burgundians and Germans and Saxonians, I will appologize for saying that you lack logic, Ok? And if you avoid that, then what I felt will just be true. I will accept an answer of no-existence of all 3 mentioned nations before 1812 (as was your statement in previous #).

News / Abortion - how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue? [273]


me too :)(

News / Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity for Poland? [185]

Germans are always ahead of time on these issues ;)

News / Abortion - how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue? [273]


Not in Catholic Church. What you bind on the Earth will be bound in heaven and what you unbind here will be unbound there. Words of Jesus (at least pretented not to be put in his mouth intentionally). Once you are forgiven by a priest and you received your absolution after a true contrition for your sin, you are a free bird - pure like milk from a mountain cow. So don't worry, Gumishu.

News / Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity for Poland? [185]


If they are Russians, then ... no words ;)

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


So people who lived on present territories of Ukraine were Ukrainians. You just made my point :)


Haha. Take him - he's yours! Likewise Chmelnickiy in my dialogue with Sokrates. He wanted so much Bogdan for Poland that I gave it to him and he became happy. Take Schewczenko, Franko, Kotlyarewkogo, Skovorodu... - go ahead - they are yours! Haha.


Like Poland meant "polia" - fields and doesn't prove anything. How many "words" was Poland in the 12th century? I don't prove anything to you. I live and love my country and don't need to prove anything. If I was on the field before you like my anscestors 400 years ago I would do the same - moon my ass to your phalanges and laugh it off. You are like people who surrounded Copernicus in 15th century and couldn't understand the solar system - you need 200 years to realize what is really going on. Arrogance and blind stubborness are some bad characters.

News / Kaliningrad. Problem, Threat or Opportunity for Poland? [185]

120%

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Ukraine


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Sebastian_Bach

Why does it say that he was a German composer and not Saxon, hm?


You can acknowledge whatever you want and say it to your kids and friends.


I don't argue about Copernicus, though I don't give him a credit of being Polish by him being subject of some dude somewhere in the south.

You have no idea what a nation is. Nation is a body of people who share a common history, culture or ethnic origin who typically inhabit a certain territory.

This is why you have and will have problems in the future (and I am not talking about you personally). You will or maybe not understand it in time. You have no respect to basic truths and you fight with a mill like Don Quichot.

News / Abortion - how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue? [273]


From what you said you never faced anything in your life.


It is a difficult issue and it should be taken by each mother individually. It is woman's body, its life depends on it and takes nourishment from. You don't give a foetus a choice, because it is part of a woman. Therefore, you have to give choice to a woman to decide what to do with her body.

News / Abortion - how is the Polish government going to deal with this issue? [273]


Don't you think we got our "reward' already? It's not about god and how mighty god is. If you read biology which you ask me to read, then you would realize that we are no special in any way and we are just a species of animals coping with life, selection and evolution as all the other animals. God gave us a choice and at the same time we cannot choose "wrong" things because hell is awaiting us. Isn't it interesting? Imagine yourself making toys and if they don't operate on the "free choice program", you then take the toys and put them on fire. But not for 5 minutes to burn them down - noo - for eternity, because you are so pissed off.

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]



Name Ukraine is used already in the Primary Chronicle of 1187 mentioning the death of knyazya Volodymyra z Pereyaslawa. I don't know what is considered the Middle Ages in Poland, but it is accepted that this period comprises 5th-16th centuries.

So, Ironside, a bit of knowledge would be indeed very welcome ;)


Ukrainians are Ukrainians and I don't divide them in east and west. And as well I don't see that big of a difference that will be able to make difference to my thoughts on this forum. Moreover, I don't see the relevance of your question. I don't ask you whether you are from Bialystok or Wroclaw, right?


So according to you Germans and Italians started to exist in 19th century?



Could you explain the difference here, please?! Agendas? So Germany as a political idea began its existance in 1812 and Ukraine in 1848, so what is your point? Nations existed before states were formed. According to you Bach was French then and Mazepa was Swiss. Cool. And Copernicus?

Love / I am heart-broken by my polish guy [25]

You don't enjoy, but you bear it because you love that person no matter how unjust and hurtful that other person is.

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


Why do you keep on sucking Muskovite's toes? Muskovite patriarchate began its existance from Kievan patriarchate by splitting off in 1448. Do you think that at Brest in 1596 they were trying to eradicate Muskovite patriarchate? It was weak and somewhere far far away from RP. It was Kievan patriarchate they were after.


It lost many people I wouldn't argue, but RP lost its army in Ukrainian fields and somehow managed to survive for one more century. Russian dicks on the east front were the problem as well. I don't argue about moving Polish into our lands didn't exist and of course eventually led to more conflicts: religious, lingual, economical etc. Good point though.


I don't live in places "what used to be", I live in Ukraine. I hope the same about you that you don't live in a place that used to be.


Basically I wanted to say that you can't start your history with 1848 no matter who you are. I don't care how people used to call themselves 200 years ago. For me Cossacks and peasants and Ruthenian nobility are Ukrainians, for Germans - people of that time will be Germans and so on. Germany and Italy didn't exist as such in 18th century, but whoever lived there at that time are considered Germans and Italians nowadays.

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


How long did it last before in 1667 Poland and Russia partitioned Ukraine among themselves in Truce of Andrusovo? I like when you talk about partitions of your country with some anger and tears on the eyes whereas you partitioned my country one century before that. Hadziatch was signed in 1657 and corrected in 1659. Under new RP constitution of 1676, the Orthodox bishops could not communicate with Constantinopole patriarchate. Also in this treaty pope wanted recognition of his superiority which didn't please Orthodox christians. Also Hadziatch as well as Pereyaslaw I consider a treason of some Ukrainian political leaders such as Vyhowskyj and Chmel'nickyj. They should have fought to the end the way general Bohun proposed and never make any deals with Poland or Russia. But history is history and people learn on their mistakes if they are smart.


I don't understand what you wanted to say, Ironside. Please, explain.


There was no Germany and Germans, no Poland or Polish as well, but we consider them part of our own history, right? You have to start somewhere and also see the tendencies of those times and ideas that these people defended, their culture, language, religion, even soul.

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]

If it were comics, you would know about it.

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


What? Is it some fairy-tale story?


Listen, I am not going to compare who did most damage Russia or Poland, both countries were oppressors and colonists. Polonius 3 was saying that you fought for freedom of others to defend your own. Is it a joke or you are talking about Kosciuszko again who fought on American continent? When did you fight for Ukraine's freedom? Ukraine fought against Poland and Russia for its freedom.

Then you are all transferring to Lithuanian rulers. But neither Ukrainian peasants, nor Cossacks were having problems with them. Churches were Orthodox, language was spoken, books were written, in order to get a state job you didn't have to change your religion or language (on your own land!!!!) as was in case of Polish politics.


Cossacks were fighting Ottoman empire and Turks well before Poland ever had any dealings with them. The only reason Poland wanted to change things was because it was scared of possibility of war with Ottoman empire. It started to impose registered number of army Cossacks could have. Remeber, Poland was not welcome on Ukrainian lands ever because your country knew nothing else but to enforce your religion, language and culture. One could not succeed in anything really unless you became somebody else - a Pole. I hope both sides understand their mistakes and now some superiority complex I see so often on this forum will eventually disappear for the well-being of future generations :)


Do you believe it, gumishu? I know that Romans wanted to give some powers to Egyptian pharaohs as well. But Egyptian pharaohs were against and turmoil began ;)


I know, but I showed you that your case is weak and wrong :)

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


When it wasn't OCCUPIED it always tried to OCCUPY, so stop pretending there was no colonialism in Poland's politics.

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


Good point, Trevek. Respect your objectivism and reasonal thinking.


It happened in the 30s., time of the Great Depression and the Femine. People were hungry and were looking for food. What is your point?


Yeh, I have nothing else to do. It is history, man.

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]


;) Should I say anything or just let it go? ;)

You quoted Yoshi who was talking about Ukraine. Maybe, you haven't noticed that only two countries were mentioned Ukraine and Sweden; nothing was said about Lithuania or Byalorus'.


:p yes , until they decided to fight Cossacks :p

UK, Ireland / POLES SUPERIOR TO BRITS? [260]

Ukrainians fought Russians as well, Messy boy. If you read history, you will find many moments were Russians were destoyed on the battlefields or by partisans in the forests. Sometimes it is difficult to fight many enemies at the same time, you know. There were mistakes, there were successes and this is a constant process up until now and into the future. To say that Ukraine is a mess is to have absolute "0" knowledge of its history and ongoing political processes. It doesn't need to be ruled, it constantly fought for its freedom, so Ukrainians can rule themselves. To say that the country is in a mess after "friendly" wars from Poland and Russia starting in 15th century and ending in 1991 is greatly missing the point. We move ahead and I look forward to have business and cultural links we enjoy nowadays between Poland and Ukraine. It's good step forward. And by the way, WE KNOW WHAT TO DO WITH OUR FREEDOM, PUT YOUR NOSE IN YOUR OWN FREEDOM AND ENJOY IT!