southern
OK, lets analyze this problem again. Yesterday I stated that in leftist rhetoric "fascist" means nothing else but an offensive call.
Isthatu was so kind to quickly confirm my point naming Franco to be
"Warped right wing deluisional bottom feeder fellow travler of all deluded right wing monsters and paranoid psycho paths..". He was not interested to describe his political stands, he was interested just to offend him.
In your case, I need to admit that from previous discussion I cannot classify you to leftists. So question for you is whether you recognize other modern
undemocratic political systems outside of
communism and
fascism?
Francism is undemocratic but fundamentally differs from these two above. Franco was a traditionalist not revolutionist like fascists. Thus one could suspect that he was inspired by Spanish Catholic thinker Juan Donoso Cortes and his concept the dictatorship. Donoso Cortes was a monarchist who lost its fate in possibility that monarchical system prevail in traditional form. Thus he was in favor of temporary dictator to restore the old order. This could be said about Franco who restored monarchy in Spain. He did not try to proclaim himself to be king, because he had not royal legitimation. He did not trust Juan Carlos father and that is why he proposed that his son will raise among people who will teach him what was necessary.
So, shortly differences once again, classical fascism and francism:
socialism
vs toleration of liberal economy
revolutionary movement
vs traditionalist, monarchist
social bottoms
vs elitism
ideology
vs religion
legitimation in masses
vs legitimation in God, fatherland
idealogical fanaticism
vs pragmatism
This is completely different system, few fundamental differences exist. What could be more fundamental that this above? I cannot agree with such thesis that everything undemocratic is either fascism or communism. The world is not so simple.
About Italy, I was not interested in this issue before. However this system look fascistic. I accept the argument that fascism in different countries have a bit different character but still resemble classical model.
I cannot accept this link between Mussolini and Catholicism. This is true that Mussolini officially did not reject Catholicism. What he tried to accomplish is to redirect the line of the Catholic Church to serve his particular interests. Such people are called heretics and such behavior should be seen as anti-church. Franco in Spain had the support of the church from beginning, he indeed considered himself to be Catholic. Below quote from wiki explain cynical stand of Mussolini.
Vatican City was recognised by the Italian state. In 1927, Mussolini was baptised by a Roman Catholic priest in order to take away certain Catholic opposition, who were still very critical of a regime which had taken away papal property and virtually blackmailed the Vatican. However, Mussolini was never known to be a practicing Catholic. Since 1927, and more even after 1929, Mussolini, with his anti-Communist doctrines, convinced many Catholics to actively support him. In the encyclical Non abbiamo bisogno, Pope Pius XI attacked the Fascist regime for its policy against the Catholic Action and certain tendencies to overrule Catholic education morals.I will answer to others later, it is too much for once.
i m with you lesser, have a look the book of franco by PIO MOA,
in internet is a lot of lies about Franco too.(probally for people like deise 07)
Generally most of mass media outlets and vast majority of mainstream have left-wing bias. From very long time they try to make everything traditional, conservative look bad. When Pinochet passed away in Chile they yelled how bad he was all the time. Wait for Fidel Castro turn and you will see damn double standards from the media. Mark my words!
Another example we witnessed when Germans in Euro-parliament tried to outlaw Nazi symbolic in whole Europe. Coalition of post-communist countries claimed that they will accept this proposal when communist symbolic will be outlawed as well. All this situation is childish but figure out that because of this demand finally this project collapsed. Commies (I mean those 'former') are untouchable, you cannot imprison them because this is against
human rights.
He was second in command of the Spanish Foreign Legion which committed atrocities in Africa. Vis a vis the atrocities he committed later in Spain were characteristic of him.
Yes and you actually are aware what was characteristic and why? :)
Hitlers airlift of the Spanish African Army without which Franco would have been snuffed out.
I have already expressed my opinion about foreign help earlier.
Spain still had an Empire which the Nationalists wanted to retain. Aspirations towards Africa etc.
Ok, but at this point they were not worse than other top European countries. What the French did in Algeria for example? Spain still have chunks in North Africa. British 'trolling' in Gibraltar and Falklands. France keep Guyana or islands on Pacific and Caribbean.
Rubbish, Franco supported Hitler with troops and the Spanish SS fought in Pomerania/Pomorskie. Franco helped Hitler in WW2
This was German territory before the war. According to article in wiki Franco
stripped them Spanish citizenship. So they fought on their own account at that time.
The suggestion that Opus Dei was responsible for the Spanish economies' renaissance in the 1960s is not a sustainable argument IMO.
I provided source, I know about this even from different source. They started in 1957 and you should realize that this influx of tourists was effect of their policy itself. Nothing more I can do to help you in this case.
Sotelo was a member of the Falange and had been involved in many murders himself.
I cannot find anything about Sotelo in Falange... He was a leader of
Renovation Española and Falange was not part of it. Source about murders would be necessary.
As for priests and bishops and the rest, if they engage in militaristic actions, why shouldnt they become a target like anyone else in a war?
I would be glad if you would provide a source for this claim.