Polish Volunteers in the Spanish Civil War

What a great team...

They had constant war between each other,mainly stalinists against anarchists and trotskists.The ones who fought more fanatic and in discipline were the stalinists while the anarchists had no discipline at all and vanished when Franco troops approached.

True, this was seen in Barcelona which left a lot of the mainstream socialists disillusioned and concluding that the commies were no worse than the fascists.

So they decided to surrender to Franco.

No chance, and end up in his concentration camps or be executed ? They fought on until Madrid.
Many Polish volunteers later fought in the French Resistance.

If Athana was more daring,he could have crashed Franco.But he was deadly afraid of the communists.

The internal politics of the Republicans was very complex - I have some learning to do !

This quote comes from a Jewish author and is not confirmed by any other source on the internet. Some Jews love to moan about endless anti-Semitism around the world over in over. They should be ignored. Franco record in saving Jews speak for itself, Jewish institute confirmed this awarding him.

This is funny quote from your source. Author is clearly delusional.

In spite of the vicious anti-Zionism of its press on both sides of the political spectrum, and the recurrence of "the Jewish lobby" scapegoat,most Spaniards remain unaware of Judeophobia in their country. This naivety could be used to advantage, making it a phenomenon that could be counteracted.


Franco did good job providing his country foreign help. Less Spanish blood and money were sacrificed.

Franco used German help before WWII started. The west cooperated with Soviet butchers during the war when they knew very well the nature of this regime. Don't you see a double standards in your thinking?

If Hitler invaded Hell I would make at least a favourable reference to the devil in the House of Commons.Winston Churchill


So what, he did not invade. Churchill and Roosevelt discussed with Stalin more than once. This is job of the leader of the country to discuss with other leaders.


Marxists are commies. For what do you think these Jewish brigades were fighting if not communism? Since when anarchist are OK, especially if they commit acts of terror?


These estimations are often not properly investigated. However we are all aware that war is a brutal event where many people dies. If Republicans would not start their terrorist activity then they would continue to run Spain instead fighting the civil war.


palce lizać :)

Accepted, but I dont think the Jewish issue was that big a deal to Franco. He was more passive than actively saving Jews.


I should have stated that I was taliking about the SCW and the airlift of the Nationalist Divisions from Africa. However, he did assist Hitler during WW2.


Surely Franco was the insurgent terrorist fighting against a democratically elected government ?

German planes and italian fascist troops were a good job to do?If you provide such a kind of foreign help,you could expect another foreign help from the opposite side with unknown consequences.


There was not a date when everybody knew that WW2 would start thereafter.


Only because he estimated Germans could lose the war.


Did Franco discuss with Churchill and Roosevelt?

Nonsense. I understand that you are happy that democratically elected NSDAP did not find such obstacles like Franco on its way in Germany? Democratically elected government which brutally raped order of law and human rights deserved to be overthrew.


You are somehow right, this is risky move. However Franco was successful.


My point is that leftists always associate Franco with German help during Spanish civil war. What they always forget to mention that Hitler did not showed its true face at that time.


This is just speculation, this was early stage of the war. You cannot judge a man for the things that he did not do.


Honestly I'm not aware. One could suspect that British and American diplomacies encouraging him to refuse Hitler.

Chamberlain and Deladier met with Hitler and Mussolini and shamelessly sold out Czechoslovakia. But their countries cannot be touch? These days their leaders don't want to meet Lukashenko but kiss Chinese leaders boots. All this blaming thing is question of importance of the country.

He didn't have to - he had Francos' support.


This could be applied to Francos' rule.


I think by 1936 he had.

You are in denial, reject facts.


He cleansed the field, terrorists cannot be tolerated. Even if they are left-wing. :)


Really? Tell this to Chamberlain and Deladier, they met him in 1938.

Are you suggesting that Franco did not support Hitler in WW2 ?
Blue Legion, use of Spanish ports etc etc


He certainly did, his atrocities against villagers in Northern Africa are well documented.


You are quite right, I am not going to defend these two.

It is true however that the Warsaw Spanish Embassy and the Polish Government leaned towards the Nationalists.

They fought in Eastern front on their own account. Franco allowed those voluntaries to left Spain to fight Soviet communists but not western countries. Nearly all countries in Europe collaborated with Hitler on the wide scale, providing, vichy governments, troops and territory. But you concentrate on such small detail, completely ignoring his refusal to join Germans.

I cannot blame them for fighting Soviets. Ask the Balts.

Well,never mind ,Ernest Hemingway heard of it ,read For whom the Bell Tolls.
Or for George Orwells acount read Homage to Catalonia
(the film,Land and Freedom is more or less a rip off of Orwell.)
So,Franco was a hero to some on here,tell that to the rape victims in "republican " towns "liberated" by francos forces,girls handed over to francos North African "soldiers" for private parties.

To say spain was not with Hitler in ww2,laughable.

Those are not professional historians but emotionally engaged leftists.


Spain was neutral, this is a historical fact.

Will you condemn your own country for selling out Czechoslovakia to Nazis in Munich?

Yes.


Did I anywhere claim them to be proffesional historins?You emotianly engaged fascist.


So,Franco was a ***** fascist ,willing to suck german weiner but unwilling to risk the pounding GB could have given him.

So you say Britain was fascist??


Come on, you can do better than name calling! If you recommend biased sources to somebody who admit that he have no clue this is not good advice.


Like Switzerland, like the US till Japan invaded them. Everybody cared about interest of own country, nothing to do with ideology.

LOL ! Don't forget about "antisemitism". Bring It on !

exactly,yeah...cept switzerland and US wernt openly sending thousands of soldiers to fight for the nazis...d'oh.


hhmmm,are you real? Saying britain could have done more for CZ does not equate to fascism really ,does it? Any more than Poland was fascist for having a military dictatorship and helping hitler carve up CZ.....


okey dokey then,you recomend some contempory pro franco litereture nby two such highly respected world known authers then...go on.Nope,there wernt any.


yawn....not fell in a river yet?

Where do you think the Nazis kept all their cash if not in Swiss banks? Business like hell. Some American companies helped to improve German industry. All countries have little sins on their consistence. Of course I have no intention to make the US or Britain look fascist, just point out double standards that the left use against Franco.


Britain chose the easiest line in Munich and later in Yalta. Nobody really expect that you should fight for these countries but honorary solution would be at least make an official protest.


Who is highly respected is a relative term.

Pio Moa "The Myths of the Civil War" ("Los mitos de la guerra civil", "Mity Wojny domowej Hiszpania 1936-1939' )

franco was fine not like Stalin, who took life and purging posed in the photo of the victory over Hitler. . It's like a lion posing with the trophy of a lion odstranitve between the claws, pure surrealism. Responsible for some form of some 20 million deaths.

He needed no courage.Hitler never threatened to invade Spain.He proposed Franco benefits for his help.During the discussion,Franco almost agreed and there were some generals who interrupted Hitler and took Franco away for some time to advice him change his attitude.Hitler was outraged because they did not leave him in privacy with Franco.


He won after both foreign fascist and foreign socialist troops left the country.


Ask the Turks if it was speculation.They did the same.Franco was unwilling to cooperate with Hitler before it was sure that the latter would win the war.Hitler needed to present one major victory in eastern front.


Of course they did.Spain played double game.It was the place where all meetings between german and allied officials during the war took place often leading to hidden agreements.

Franco and Hitler discussed in 1940.
Hitler invaded SU in 1941.
The US entered the war after Pearl Harbor in 1941.

So nothing was sure, Hitler was a pall of Stalin after they carved Poland together. The US did not participate. Hitler could invade Spain to gain control over Gibraltar instead attacking the SU. Who would expect that he will turn against Stalin at that time? Stalin himself was shocked. Franco needed to seriously consider such eventuality when he refused.

The way how the Spanish negotiators played at this meeting with Hitler could tell us that they have the answer ready from the start and just needed to deliver it to Hitler. Franco needed to refuse acting in such way to not offend Hitler too much.

Thus this discussion is just a speculation that cannot be verified by empirical evidence. You cannot claim something and not provide evidence to back your position.


But possibly gave him a momentum when he needed.

Anyone claiming Franco was a hero should speak to Spaniards who had to live under his regime. He was a murderer who seized power from a democratically elected Government through the use of foreign troops. The campaign he waged in North Africa was one of absolute savagery.

He then invaded Spain and did the same to his own people. He specifically singled out the Basques and Catalans for special treatment, allowing Hitler try out his methods on the Basques in particular. Picasso's Guernica is a testament to what he allowed take place. In the many years following his seize of power (from the democratically elected government of the Spanish people) he implemented policies designed to persecute Basques and Catalans, oulawing their languages for example.. He imposed a totalitarian regime backed by a police state.

I say this as an Irish man, Ireland being one of the only countries who provided large numbers of international volunteers for the Nationalist side - the self styled "blueshirts" under Genral Eoin O'Duffy who were a disgrace to this country. They spent their time getting drunk and shooting each other like the true fascists they were. Thankfully many Irishmen also fought on the other side under Frank Ryan and acquitted themselves very well.

I never ceased to be amazed at how some Poles can apply their own history to every other country in the world. Wake up! Franco was a fascist and a murderer. Just because he was anti-communist doesnt make him good. His ideal was to return Spain to its colonial past "glories". How the hell is that something to be supported and how the hell is it in any way democratic??

Instead repeating previously raised and overthrew argument, you could read this thread from beginning and then eventually comment other posters comments.

I did read it from the start and I am "overthrowing" your argument that Franco had some sort of mandate which alllowed him seize power from a democratically elected Government. He didn't. The Spanish Republicans had been elected fairly and squarely. Just because Franco didnt like the result doesnt mean he had the right to ignore it. That is the basis of the democratic process. Therefore he had no mandate other than his and his military colleagues warped convictions about restoring the former glory of Imperialist Catholic Spain.

Everything else flows from that most important point. Therefore my argument stands.

So you need to do it again, because apparently you were not careful. You cannot expect that posters will repeat already discussed issues, because you joined to this thread when discussion was practically over. If you raise new argument then of course we can discuss.

Deise raises new topics and some which have only been touched on before.
How Franco conducted himself in Africa.
The invasion from Africa.
The role of the catholic church.
The Imperialists aspirations.

Etc Etc Etc