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Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land?


MareGaea 29 | 2,752  
26 Oct 2009 /  #271
Aachen

I like Aken. It's a beautiful city. I like to be there.

>^..^<

M-G (and it's close to NL too!)
TheOther 6 | 3,692  
26 Oct 2009 /  #272
bimbo

One possible answer straight from the Simon Wiesenthal Center:
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/36quest1.html#17
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
27 Oct 2009 /  #273
purely theoretical situation, we get Lwów back, now i have a couple of question, what would you assuming you're in power do with the local Ukrainian population, who would you settle Lwów with and how would you deal with our economy being weighed down with annexing such a large and extremely poor region?

Local Ukrainian population should be moved to Ukraine.
Populated by owners of property stolen by Soviets and anybody who would like to buy property cheaply.
Poor? rather poorly developed!
I disagree with your assumption about weighted down economy- first because is illogical :)

I-S (yeah - illogical)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
27 Oct 2009 /  #274
Local Ukrainian population should be moved to Ukraine.

So are you willing to pay local Ukranians for the property they built in their time in Lwów and the area? There's not that much of it but its still worth a fortune or are you just calling for us to steal from them.

Populated by owners of property stolen by Soviets

Those owners are dead and most Poles dont have the proper documents which means every Joe can claim his family was from Lwów.

who would like to buy property cheaply.

You realise the immidiate region is populated by 2 milion people? To have Lwów even remotely operational we'd have to uproot valuable personnel (sorry but country rednecks just wont do you need engineers, doctors and others) which would destabilise the countrys economy.

I disagree with your assumption about weighted down economy- first because is illogical :)

In other words you're advocatting theft, expulsion and racist policies that brought us and Ukrainians to the point of war so many times before, good work champ, i'm glad you're a minority.
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
27 Oct 2009 /  #275
There's not that much of it but its still worth a fortune or are you just calling for us to steal from them.

its all depend how such transition occurs, if because of mutual agreement there will be compensation or houses build by Poles in the Ukraine.
if by the means of Mars in martial way - they'll get zero!

Those owners are dead and most Poles dont have the proper documents which means every Joe can claim his family was from Lwów.

They have scions don't they and documents are not that important, it could be checked.
Where is a will there is a way!

You realise the immidiate region is populated by 2 milion people? To have Lwów even remotely operational we'd have to uproot valuable personnel (sorry but country rednecks just wont do you need engineers, doctors and others) which would destabilise the countrys economy.

There some Polish people living there as others nationalities, they can stay as can anyone who will apply for citizenship as a Polish national.
There enough people in Poland with education and there educated people abroad .....

You worry too much !

n other words you're advocatting theft, expulsion and racist policies that brought us and Ukrainians to the point of war so many times before, good work champ, i'm glad you're a minority.

What are you blabbing about ?
I propose undone ethnic cleansing and theft done by Soviets and UPA
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
27 Oct 2009 /  #276
There some Polish people living there as others nationalities

Yeah about 30 thousand if i recall.

they can stay as can anyone who will apply for citizenship as a Polish national.

Arent you gracious Ironside.

I propose undone ethnic cleansing and theft done by Soviets and UPA

By more ethnic cleansing done by Poland? No thanks.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694  
27 Oct 2009 /  #277
I propose undone ethnic cleansing and theft done by Soviets and UPA

Well...you can only undo it through another ethnic cleansing and theft!
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
27 Oct 2009 /  #278
No thanks.

you are disgrace....some butler not martial Sarmata

I-S ( phew!)

you can only undo it through another ethnic cleansing and theft!

halo ?
what theft? that property was stolen and if rightful owner retrieve it - that justices, no theft!

I-S ( WTF?)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
27 Oct 2009 /  #279
you are disgrace....some butler not martial Sarmata

So is over 70% of Poles butlers? Because thats the general view says onet.pl.

Face it Iron apart from some fringe wackos like you no one wants Lwów back and historical sentiment is the only thing we have left for it.
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
27 Oct 2009 /  #280
So is over 70% of Poles butlers? B

well, its seems that way isn't it?

Face it Iron apart from some fringe wackos like you no one wants Lwów back and historical sentiment is the only thing we have left for it.

The small numbers always govern big numbers hence the name elite .....you may call it as you like :)

I-S (its simple)
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694  
28 Oct 2009 /  #281
The small numbers always govern big numbers hence the name elite .....you may call it as you like :)

In that case....when does the polish army start marching? ;)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
28 Oct 2009 /  #282
When Ironside orders them to!

The small numbers always govern big numbers hence the name elite .....you may call it as you like :)

And what makes You the elite Iron?
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
28 Oct 2009 /  #283
In that case....when does the polish army start marching? ;)

See militaristic nonsense, I'll take our lands back by banks and credit's. Thats how its work nowadays:p

Or maybe when there will be Polish Army and State, not some puppets on the string!

When Ironside orders them to!

always taking obvious path, cannot stop himself babbling away..... Socrates, no wonder they stuffed him with hemlock - so boring.

And what makes You the elite Iron?

Oh I'm not elite as I'm not in power, yet.
What? Everything that you are not and what make you statistical - average:)
On PF most think that you are racist, anti-Semite, homophobic and fascist ....and so on!
And yet, you call me radical - think about it :)
I have a dream..... and you have ....nasty attitude and none self restrain.

I-S ( I know or I don't know;you think that you know)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
28 Oct 2009 /  #284
See militaristic nonsense, I'll take our lands back by banks and credit's.

You need to have an economic base to project power, we don't.

Oh I'm not elite as I'm not in power, yet.

So by your definition elites are always in power? How about Wladyslaw Gomułka, a Polish communist prime minister, installed by Red Army who's soldiers didnt know how to operate a flushing toilet, a man who had to be thought how to use a fork and a knife, was he an elite too?

On PF most think that you are racist, anti-Semite, homophobic and fascist ....and so on!

Most who? People who come here to insult us? Harry, Sjam and Maregea, our local clown assembly is hardly the most.

And yet, you call me radical - think about it :)

No i call you etremist, i'm radical you're just being stupid, not only do you want our former lands back at the expense of our neighbour but you ignore the irreparable damage it would do to our international relations across the board and our economy from within.

You're basically calling for an action that would damage Poland on every possible field and bring us absolutely nothing.

I have a dream..... and you have ....nasty attitude and none self restrain.

And i have a grasp on reality captain dreamer, and apparently despite my nasty attitude i have a healthy moral backbone and am not willing to boot people from their homes because of history books unlike you, but hey you have a dream so i guess thats allright for you to spout idiocy.
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
28 Oct 2009 /  #285
You need to have an economic base to project power, we don't.

Isn't it being obvious?

your definition elites are always in power

yes, but is not only attribute of the elite.

Most who?

Ask them, make a thread - it could be educational for you:)

Sjam

Is left wing liberal, who thinks himself Polish but doesn't understand us.

Maregea

He is OK.

i'm radical

No, you only fancy yourself radial and you are babbling average boy:)

you're just being stupid,

Well, thank you:) coming from you is only confirmation that you are clueless:D

you want our former lands back at the expense of our neighbour but you ignore the irreparable damage it would do to our international relations across the board and our economy from within.

You are being silly, our neighbor is in possession of our land on our expense, and .....again ....isn't it just obvious ?
How do you know what would happened if you don't know circumstances of such transition ?As I have said - you think you know.

Stop crying about economy it is significant for people who don't have a clue about economy.

You're basically calling for an action that would damage Poland on every possible field and bring us absolutely nothing.

Logical reasoning is not your cup of tea, isn't it?

i have a grasp on reality

I doubt it:p

moral backbone and am not willing to boot people from their homes

Their homes? Well, its debatable from the moral point of view!
And its not moral backbone it is your skinny ass boy!

but hey you have a dream so i guess thats allright for you to spout idiocy.

There was another man with dream JoshepP, and another in USA in 60's, according to you they were idiots.
Well, maybe nobody is as wise as Socrates.

I-S ( and very good)
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
28 Oct 2009 /  #286
You are being silly, our neighbor is in possession of our land on our expense, and .....again ....isn't it just obvious ?

However at present we have no means of aquiring it without damaging our diplomatic standing, we have no people with which to settle the region and not enough money to facilitate incorporation into Poland, not to mention the moral and geopolitical ramifications expulsion of Ukrainian population would have.

In other words time have changed and Lwów is no longer Polish, sorry but you gotta live with it and deal with it, most of us do.

Their homes? Well, its debatable from the moral point of view!

Who's homes then? Most people dont have the papers to prove their families owned property in Lwów, most of buildings and lands in Lwów were owned by private citizens not by Polish state so you're advocating stealing from Ukrainians.

Stop crying about economy it is significant for people who don't have a clue about economy.

Well then enlighten us! Lwów is going to need a completely refurbished power grid and communication facilities for increased movement with Poland, its going to need military, law enforcement, hospitals, we would have to allocate people of specialist trades to the region like policemen or doctors and these are already scarce enough in Poland.

Finally because Lwów is so underdeveloped people from developed areas of Poland would not move there and people from poverty stricken rural eastern regions dont have the know how to develop the city which means Lwów will become a huge black hole sucking up money from our already strained budget.

Then there's the moral implications of kicking out people from their homes, being kicked out of EU and NATO and facing a war with Belarus and Russia, Lithuania which is scared sh*tless of our regional ambitions will immidiately become pro-Russian AND it creates a precedent for Germans to claim back Wrocław and assorted lands.

In the end Poland would still lose Lwów to Russia, its most developed Western provinces to Germany, become ostracized by Europe at large and ruined by attempting to revive a poor sh*thole that Lwów currently is.

Got imagination Iron? Use it.
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
28 Oct 2009 /  #287
However at present we have no means of aquiring it without damaging our diplomatic standing,

Yes, now!

In other words time have changed and Lwów is no longer Polish, sorry but you gotta live with it and deal with it, most of us do.

I know that:)
You really have a problem with logic - Why would I advocate to take Lwów back if I would have thought that Lwów is Polish?

Who's homes then? Most people dont have the papers to prove their families owned property in Lwów, most of buildings and lands in Lwów were owned by private citizens not by Polish state so you're advocating stealing from Ukrainians.

Do you think that present residents have got documents issued by prewar Polish government?If they do , they can keep their property.
States don't steal they take:P

Well then enlighten us!

Well, We have to prepare ourself on all counts, economical, political and military!
Only strong, vibrant state can successfully take back its lands, it may take years, so what?

n the end Poland would still lose Lwów to Russia, its most developed Western provinces to Germany, become ostracized by Europe at large and ruined by attempting to revive a poor sh*thole that Lwów currently is.

Good planing is the key!
Now Socrates use your brain !
Who is gonna take seriously country, which lost lands being part of it for century's and do not want to take it back ?
What if Germans take back their lands and Ukrainians take Przemysl?
Can you foresee the future ?
The only solution is Poland as a world power and first power in Europe!
To achieve it Poles need to rekindle their lost spirit - to do that they need a dream!
And dream about Lwów is better then most as that land should belong to Poland as it is part of our heritage, more so then other prewar lost territories !

Do you understand now?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
28 Oct 2009 /  #288
Do you understand now?

Yep, you were pulling my leg:P
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
28 Oct 2009 /  #289
In a way.
Do you think that Lwów should belong to Poland?
southern 75 | 7,096  
28 Oct 2009 /  #290
If you take Lvov,Ukraine will sink into the toilet and the major beneficiary will be Russia.And Russia at the gates of EU,not good.
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
28 Oct 2009 /  #291
Hannibal ante portas :D
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
28 Oct 2009 /  #292
Do you think that Lwów should belong to Poland?

Nope, i wish it never left Poland in the first place but it did and the situation changed, so no Lwów should not belong to Poland.
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
28 Oct 2009 /  #293
Nope,

bad boy! so I guess I wasn't pulling your leg:p
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694  
28 Oct 2009 /  #294
Who is gonna take seriously country, which lost lands being part of it for century's and do not want to take it back ?

Erm.....
Ironside 51 | 11,510  
30 Oct 2009 /  #295
what? You BB should stop drinking beer and attempt to speak at the same time!
you OK?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,694  
30 Oct 2009 /  #296
During the negotiations for re-unification the new whole Germany acknowledged the current Oder-Neiße border as legal border and gave up every claims east wards.

(I don't know if you know that but till then this question was purposely left open by West Germany all these decades because they declared such an important question can only be answered by a whole, unified and independent Germany which didn't exist before 1989).

And I don't feel anybody respects Germany less for that. Quite the contrary...stopping being a war monger gains and deserves respect!

I advise you to look to Serbia what happens to countries wanting to gulp down more than they can chew (or Nazi-Germany when you like). You tend to end up much tinier than before...
southern 75 | 7,096  
31 Oct 2009 /  #297
Ukraina is cool land.Hands off Ukraina.
Crow 152 | 9,747  
1 Nov 2009 /  #298
Did Ukraine really "steal" Polish land?

no, not realy.

What is this? What is this? Is this lunacy?! You want answer? Serbian would give you

So called west stolen more then half of the old Polish lands and assimilated millions of Poles. Think WESTERN, not as westerner. Western are Polish lands that Poland needs to liberate

crazy
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Nov 2009 /  #299
I think you even managed to fool yourself with that post, Crow ;) ;)

Land 'stealing' could just as easily be described as a passing of hands.
Crow 152 | 9,747  
1 Nov 2009 /  #300
I think you even managed to fool yourself with that post, Crow ;) ;)

sure? i`m good then. Am i? ;)

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