A few thoughts after plowing through most "Sabaton: 40-1" comments on YouTube

Yes, that's true, and I'm not saying that the Germans were really cowards and wimps behind their superior equipment and numbers. Morale and training are also extremely important factors. But they weren't exactly an unstoppable uber-army, either.


Good guess, but no. Probably more to do with the Swiss Militia program. The one that requires, by law, all adult male citizens to keep government-provided rifles and ammunition in their homes, and to attend mandatory shooting practices on a regular basis.

It's gotten even better nowadays: now they all get assault rifles.
On a gun-control note, rate of firearm crimes in Switzerland is relatively quite low.


Closer than with Russia, I would say.


I acknowledge that it was indeed a semi-common occurance. Do I get a prize? :)

Well, of course. With Russia we are neither allies nor friends.


Good point. When will people finally understand that gun-control is only in the
interest of criminals, who will always acquire weapons when needed, and against
the interest of common people?

You know, I do believe there are certain people in the world who are just not capable of wrapping their minds around the concept. I've brought up the Switzerland Card before, only to observe some stroke-like symptoms of confusion and babbling followed by the exclamation that this is of course logical, since one can't exactly inconspicuously conceal an assault rifle in a public place. In which case, fine, outlaw handguns and let people buy assault rifles, instead. :D

I've personally been wanting to get hold of a Mini-Beryl for the props...

Tell me about it! I've given up trying to convince people not to support gun-control
long time ago. It's kinda like with differential equations for example - some people
have enough brains to understand it, some don't. Too bad that people who don't,
happen to be the ruling "elites" of this country (I mean the gun-control issue, not
differential equations ;)).

That was propaganda, duuhhh... What else where they suppose to say. "We will be overrun in about four weeks and as a outcome most probably 3 million of us will die!" ??? :)


Hold your horses there mate! The problem wouldn't have been to convince the Czechs to fight, but rather to come to an agreement over Zaolzie and start cooperating. Both sides failed to do so and as a result we were overrun by helmuts. Simple. The Czechs were alone mate, they didn't have many options.

Try learning about history instead of myth.


Don't you mean 'If Poland hadn't allied itself with Hitler and joined the invasion of Czechoslovakia'....


Given that your army was one of the ones invading Czechoslovakia, it's probably quite fortunate for Poland that the Czechs didn't fight, eh?

Your ignorance, when it comes to history, never ceases to amaze me.

Our army only took back what the Czechs stole from us, backstabbing us
when we were busy fighting the red hordes in the Polish-Soviet war.


At no point in history Poland was an ally to Hitler. Such lies only make
you look ridiculous.

Any excuse, eh? Perhaps Poland shouldn't have committed at the Spa conference to the borders agreed there? And I do love how you claim the entire Zaolzie region based on the fact that in 1921 there were 68,034 Poles there and 88,556 Czechs!


Do you deny that Poland took part in Hitler's dismemberment of Czechoslovakia? If you were not Hitler's ally in that invasion, you were at least his accomplice.


Your outstanding ability to lie about the darker points of Polish history should probably amaze me but no longer does.

Show me any lie that I made about Polish history. Just one will do.

I can show you one of yours in this very thread - you said that Poland allied itself
to Hitler - that's an obvious lie. Now your turn.

As for the Polish-Czech conflict over Zaolzie:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaolzie

Please point out how taking part in the Nazi dismemberment of Czechoslovakia is not allying oneself with Hitler.


Let's use your own source against you:


Would you now like to claim that being an accomplice of Hitler is so very different to being an ally of Hitler?

This land had always been Polish, with a large Polish population living there. We were taking back what had been rudely taken away by the Czechs decades earlier. Frankly, those Czechs living there were probably happy the Poles took over administration, rather than Nazis.

Aren't you sick and tired of being a polonophobe, rabbi Harry?

Please point out how doing something to forestall the German occupation
is allying oneself to Germany.


Even the word "accomplice" is highly debatable in this context and it IS very different
to being an ally of Hitler, because being an ally means to have an alliance and there
was never any kind of alliance between Poland and Third Reich.

Poland didn't help Hitler to invade Czechoslovakia. He would do it anyway and wouldn't
need any help. We only tried to forestall the German occupation and save at least a part
of Polish population of the region from the horrors of Nazi occupation (taking back what
was rightfully ours in the process).

So now you disagree with the source which you yourself posted, how surprising.


I see, so both Poland and Germany independently decided to invade parts of Czechoslovakia. OK, that's entirely plausible!


So you just invaded bits of it and Germany invaded other bits of it. You didn't help him at all!


Oh look, the Jedwabne defence! Guess what: saying 'if we hadn't invaded it, Hitler would have invaded it' is as valid an excuse as saying 'if we hadn't murdered those Jews, the Germans would have sent them to a death camp'!


It was not rightfully yours. Poland agreed at the Spa conference that the area in question belonged to Czechoslovakia. Then Poland invaded it in 1938 when the Czechs were unable to defend it. A classic backstab from the country which gave the world the Peace of Riga backstab, an all-time classic amongst backstabs!

In exactly the same way that Poland invaded it in 1938, the Czechs were unable to defend it, and the Czechs agreed that it was Polish. Czechs invaded it prior, and the Polish were unable to defend it.


That is not correct. Take a closer look at the wording of the quote you posted.

Good point.



?


You said that Poland "allied itself to Germany" which is a lie and pure idiocy.
Your comparing of forestalling the German occupation of Zaolzie by Poland
and the murder of Jews in Jedwabne doesn't even merit any kind of reply.

Frankly, judging by your previous posts on this forum, you're just an angry man
with a huge chip on your shoulder, but that's your problem. I have no time for
muppets like you.

Why don't you and RevokeNice start your own forum - ihatepoland.com
and talk to yourselves? Have fun.

That would be a good argument if Poland had limited itself to taking only the parts of the region which had been Polish from 1918 to 1920. But Poland didn't limit itself to taking only those parts, they took more. In fact they even took territory which had never been part of Cieszyn!


So what you mean is that you are unable to attack the argument so you have to attack the poster. Yawn.

A pity that Poland did not took whole Czechoslovakia. I understand that Nazis are disappointed that cute Adi failed to grab these lands from the start.

Anyway, back to Sabaton- just found out through the weirdest set of coincidences that they're going to be touring in Poland. Schedule:

Mon. 31st Aug. - Warsaw
Tue. 1st Sept. - Bydgoszcz
Wed. 2nd Sept. - Zielona Gora
Fri. 4th Sept. - Siemianowice Slaskie
Sat. 5th Sept. - Rzeszow
Sun. 6th Sept. - Gora Strekowa

Had to do with my being forced to walk home from a relative's one night, but for which I would never have noticed the poster (I live in Rzeszów), as I generally pay absolutely no attention to those things. Anyway, not sure that I'll attend, but the thought has crossed my mind. Anyone else thinking of going to see them live?

Bratwurst Boy

Polish defenders only surrendered (cpt Raginis took his life on that occasion) when the commander was blackmailed that unless they surrender Polish prisoners of war taken in the battle would be executed

Have you read the plans wich the German high command had planned?
Soviet intervention was more then important it was VITAL!
The eastern parts of Poland had much marshes, forests and bad roads. Without soviet union the German Wehrmacht would be sitting in mud all over their noses with tanks that were stuck in mud. Also when the winter would arrive maybe a Polish stalingrad would happened?

You should read your own literature, I have read some German history books about Plan Weiss.

I am more disgraced about how Norwegian soldiers behaved then Polish soldiers. Only the sailors behaved valiantly and patriotic!

I see this thread is ended, and that's fine. all i wanna do is put the final touch in.

although being let down by their allies at krim and yalta and thus condemmed to another 50 years of "slavery" under the soviet union, a few facts still remain.

and this is a final nail in the coffin for all those germany-kicked-polands-ass-arguments so many here seems to belive in.

fact 1: poland was during ww2 despite having their country occupied for almost the entire war the fourth biggest of the allied nations (counting military personel), only surpassed by soviet, usa and britain.

fact 2: the allies won over the germans.

fact 3: hmm... do i really have to say it... well i guess i have to since some of you wouldn't understand it unless. poland was one of the allied nations who won (read: kicked ass) over germany.

so.... who kicked who's ass?

peace and love to you all.... let's hope it will never happen again, for in the end we all need eachother whether we like it or not.

I don't deny it. and I am not more proud of it. But it happened and if it happened in my times I will still stood up for it since it's my duty as a citizen.

It is never your duty as a citizen to invade other countries. The only time when fighting is acceptable is when one is protecting those who can not protect themselves (e.g. Kosovo). Neither of the Polish invasions of Czechoslovakia in the last 71 years is in any way justifiable.

Harry
So British invasions were also unacceptable? Because I think they were more belligerent than most other European nations.

Of course they were also unacceptable.

Althought with that said, other than Germany (which was a defensive invasion) and Iraq (for which there is no excuse), I'm struggling to think of any country which Britain has invaded in the last 100 years.

Because it changes with times. There were a lot of struggles and wars in Central Europe before WWII. And almost every country in the world has some "bad" periods like invasions but I think that most (not all) Polish wars were defensive. And after some reading I would say that British did not betray Poland (they maybe could have done more to help us). The "main" traitors were those cowards Americans. The "image" of British traitors came from Nazi and Soviet propaganda on conquered Polish lands.

Hey what's up, I just wanted to say that in the battle of Wizna, the Poles were actually outnumbered 59:1. Pretty crazy odds. Also, not only did Germany have a non-aggression pact with Russia, but the reality is that they actually had an established coalition against Poland. Before either of them invaded they established new "to-be" boundaries between Russia and Germany. And regardless of what kind of patriotism one has, for one average European country to hold out for 3 weeks against TWO European superpowers with zero reinforcements from its "allies" is a miraculous feat of nationalism and love of one's country.

And as Joakim Broden of Sabaton said to all the Poles out there,
WE'RE GONNA GIVE'EM FORTY TO ONE!!!

the ordinary Czech soldier was willing to fight and ready to die for his country - it was not their decision to surrender - I watch Czech tv from time to time and happened to see a document on this

Some escaped to Poland later on. It proves that!