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Roman Dmowski- Polish Adolf Hitler?


Filios1 8 | 1,336  
28 Oct 2008 /  #1
Not quite, but he was quite an influential anti-Semite politician and statesmen in the interwar periods in Poland, and co-founder of the National Democratic Party One could only imagine what would have happened if his wishes were carried out. He is rarely mentioned today, but some his policies may have saved Poland from a Nazi attack in 1939.

Poland was a merely a physical entity that needed to be brought into existence through pragmaticbargaining and negotiating, not via what Dmowski considered to be pointless revolts doomed to failure before they even began against the partitioning powers.[1] For Dmowski, what the Poles needed was a "healthy national egoism" that would not be guided by what Dmowski regarded as the unrealistic political principles of Christianity.

I especially enjoy this last remark:

Another area of objection to Dmowski was to his antisemitic remarks, as in a speech he delivered at a dinner organized by the writer G. K. Chesterton, that began with the words, "My religion came from Jesus Christ, who was murdered by the Jews

Dmowski often stated his belief in a "international Jewish conspiracy" aimed against Poland. In his essay "Żydzi wobec wojny", which comprises pages 301-308 of his 1926 book Polityka Polska i odbudowanie państwa, Dmowski claimed that Zionism was only a cloak to disguise the Jewish ambition to rule the world. Dmowski asserted that once a Jewish state was established in Palestine, this would serve as a nucleus for the Jewish take-over of the world.[22] In the same essay, Dmowski accused the Jews of being Poland's most dangerous enemy and of working hand in hand with the Germans to dismember Poland.[6] Dmowski believe that the 3,000,000 Polish Jews could not be assimilated and that they were far too numerous. In his own words, "a little salt may improve the taste of the soup, but too much will spoil it."[23]

Dmowski had long advocated emigration of the entire Jewish population of Poland as the solution to what Dmowski regarded as Poland's "Jewish problem",[27] came to argue for increasing harsh measures against the Jewish minority,[28] though Dmowski never advocated killing Jews.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Dmowski

At least Hitler and Dmowski would have the whole anti-Semite thing in common...

although, I'm not sure how well this would help their relationship.

For Dmowski, one of Poland's principal problems was that not enough Polish-speaking Catholics were middle-class, while too many ethnic Germans and Jews were. To remedy this perceived problem, he favored a policy of confiscating the wealth of Jews and ethnic Germans and redistributing it to Polish Catholics.

jonni 16 | 2,485  
28 Oct 2008 /  #2
The guy was a nutcase, and a dangerous one at that. You might like to check out Jedrzej Giertych on wikipedia for more of the same.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Nov 2008 /  #3
Nonsense, Dmowski was nowhere near Hitler. He was nationally minded but never advocated any radical ideas. I have read his "Polityka Polska i Odbudowanie Państwa" and I think that Poland was very lucky to have him. He was very good political strategist and diplomat even if I disagree with some his opinions. He distrusted Jews because many of them did not assimilate and opposed Poland regaining independence. I think that he exaggerated here (collectivism) but today some people blow out his views completely out of proportion.

Dmowski was slightly optimistic about democracy and let me remind you that this is socialists who removed ND and PSL from power by military coup. While Wincenty Witos and his PSL were always willing to cooperate with ND. Dmowski had friends like Ignacy Paderewski, Henryk Sienkiewicz or Chesterton, hardly considered to be radicals.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Nov 2008 /  #4
Dmowski was rooted in ideology Filios1, he had the misfortune of being in politics at a time when other players rose above him in stature. He was nothing on the scale of Adolf Hitler.

His ideological ways could not be acted on, unlike Hitler's
pawian 176 | 15,402  
1 Nov 2008 /  #5
When in Warsaw last summer, I saw such grafitti on walls:

The bottom sentence says : Poland`s border on the Elbe River (the river is in Germany). Funny......
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Nov 2008 /  #6
The bottom sentence says : Poland`s border on the Elbe River (the river is in Germany). Funny......

Currently some groups of twats consider Dmowski to be their ideological idol. However they never really read him. In above mentioned book Dmowski wrote in details where Polish-German border (and other borders as well) should stand. Nothing about Elbe river for sure. He wished in particular lands of German occupation zone populated by Poles, plus Polish populated parts of Silesia. Strictly according to ethnic boundaries. Because of strategic reasons he wanted Gdansk and weakly populated Eastern Prussia become part of Poland as well. He practically predicted future claim of German National Socialists about 'corridor'. He wrote that as long the Germans have lands so far on the east they will try to connect them with the rest and also expand them on the cost of Poland. You cannot deny that Hitler thought exactly like that and even more...

On other hand he wanted Germany to be expanded by German speaking part of Austro-Hungarian Empire.
OP Filios1 8 | 1,336  
1 Nov 2008 /  #7
I agree, thats why I say that in the opening sentence...
The Adolf Hitler comparison I make to attract posters. You see? I attracted you.

Anyway, I believe his rational and scientific outlook was useful in Poland, and its a shame that he did not command more power.

distrusted Jews because many of them did not assimilate and opposed Poland regaining independence

This distrust was born out of something more than just that. Dmowski saw what a toll the Jews were taking on society and the economy. What other country in Europe at that time didn't have a middle class made up of its own ethnic citizens? This was Polands weakness, and they are still paying for it today.

I think this is his best quote:
"A little salt may improve the taste of the soup, but too much will spoil it."
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Nov 2008 /  #8
The Adolf Hitler comparison I make to attract posters. You see? I attracted you.

You are wrong, thread about Dmowski attracted myself and not headline itself.

When you post tabloid headline then question arise whether you prefer bigger number of posters over quality of posting in general. Personally I prefer one poster who have something interesting to say over plenty of 'one-liners'.

Dmowski saw what a toll the Jews were taking on society and the economy.

Yes but if they would assimilate then this 'reason' would vanish automatically.
Grzegorz_ 51 | 6,161  
1 Nov 2008 /  #9
Dmowski was one of few Polish national heroes of 20th century.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Nov 2008 /  #10
I'd only issue a forewarning. Many looked good on paper but, come the time for hard decisions, they shirked responsibility and changed their spots.
OP Filios1 8 | 1,336  
1 Nov 2008 /  #11
Yes but if they would assimilate then this 'reason' would vanish automatically.

So? Anti-Semitism is born out of their tendency not to assimilate. If they did indeed assimilate into Polish society, intermarried with Poles, began to look after the good of the nation instead of the good of their own, then yes, Dmowski and other anti-Semites would simply have nothing to argue about and we would not be having this discussion right now. As it stood, they really could care less about the welfare of the nation, as long as it gave them a setting and enough resources to operate their business from. Can hardly blame them though, if they became too wrapped up in Polish politics and culture, they would certainly lose their indentity. Thats what happens when you lack a motherland to look back upon.
lesser 4 | 1,311  
1 Nov 2008 /  #12
So? Anti-Semitism is born out of their tendency not to assimilate.

The same about Gypsies. Societies elsewhere rarely tolerate large minorities unwilling to assimilate.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
1 Nov 2008 /  #13
Well, look at the threads with Poles in Britain and u will see that u r right lesser.
Warsaw8 4 | 126  
2 Nov 2008 /  #14
A polish version of Adolf Hittler, I like the sound of that ;)

United we stand, divided we fall.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
3 Nov 2008 /  #15
DMOWSKI

When you post tabloid headline then question arise whether you prefer bigger number of posters over quality of posting in general. Personally I prefer one poster who have something interesting to say over plenty of 'one-liners'.

PolishForum prefers 'one-liners'.
Warsaw8 4 | 126  
3 Nov 2008 /  #16
Thats Adolfs polish cousin! Sweet!
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
10 Nov 2008 /  #17
Because he held certain views, why call him a 'Hitler'?...Certain views held by Hitler made sense; Hitler's mistake was in taking certain racialism to an extreme end...Dmowski never advocated this racial extremism.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
10 Nov 2008 /  #18
In a nutshell, that's it Joe. Racialism, isn't that a Bushism? LOL
OP Filios1 8 | 1,336  
12 Mar 2009 /  #19
I am bringing back my old thread, as I recently found a very good book on Roman Dmowski. As I am layed up at home for the next little while, I have some spare time on my hands. For anyone interested, the book information is below...

Roman Dmowski: Party, Tactics, Ideology

by Alvin Marcus Fountain II
Columbia University Press, New York; 1980
Warsaw8 4 | 126  
12 Mar 2009 /  #20
Because he held certain views, why call him a 'Hitler'?...Certain views held by Hitler made sense; Hitler's mistake was in taking certain racialism to an extreme end...Dmowski never advocated this racial extremism.

Nahh, I was just saying that because he looks like him, I could deffinetly see him as a polish cousin to the Fuhrer...
OP Filios1 8 | 1,336  
12 Mar 2009 /  #21
I don't get people like you Warsaw. Here you are, 50 years after Hitler, probably in your early 20's? praising him and the Nazi's for what they did, but at the same time, being proud of your Polish heritage. You know, had you lived back then, neither the Poles, nor the Germans would have accepted you. You would have been seen as someone inferior in the eyes of the Germans, and seen as a volksdeutche (potentially a spy) by the Poles.

I wonder, what would you have done?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
12 Mar 2009 /  #22
Well i see nothing in Dmowski's views as anti-semitic, according to the Bible Jews did murder Jesus, also Poland did have a "Jewish problem" and Soviet occupation proved Dmowski de facto right when the masses of Jews instantly and enthusiastically betrayed Poland and assisted the Soviets in murder of Polish elites, if you have a hostile minority encouraging them to get the hell out is the right thing to do.

Same for a country with many minorities, when you have a country with many different nationalities a singular loyalty is not possible, especially if these nationalities come from neighbouring states and have conflicting agendas.

A very pragmatic and fair man who wanted whats best for Poland even at the price of political correctness.
Randal 1 | 577  
12 Mar 2009 /  #23
Who would you guys hate if there were no Jews?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
12 Mar 2009 /  #24
Nahh, I was just saying that because he looks like him, I could deffinetly see him as a polish cousin to the Fuhrer...

You are right...And a poster on another thread said something very interesting: He said that the last time Adolph Hitler went to church was for Josef Pilsudski's memorial service.

Who would you guys hate if there were no Jews?

First, let Dmowski respond:

"a little salt may improve the taste of the soup, but too much will spoil it."

For myself, I have always had good relations with Jews: two wives, my longest friend, all Jewish...So, I can speak frankly on the question...Both positive and negative...And, by the way Randall, you are the one who speaks of hating Jews...I have never said such a thing, nor anyone else...We just discuss things, openly.
Borrka 37 | 594  
12 Mar 2009 /  #25
Lots of stereotypes in your postings.

Yes, Dmowski was talented and successful politician and statesman.
But he had definitely some limits.

1. Unable to deal with minorities' problem in Poland - it refers not to the Polish Jews only but to Ukrainians or Germans as well.

2.On the contrary to Pilsudski he obviously underestimated the Russian (not even to mention Bolsheviks!) threat to Poland.
For that reason Russian historians consider him to be pro-Russian what is BS.

3.Yes, he was antisemitic but not even to compare with Hitler.
He always tried to prove his anti-Jewish rants were of purely political nature.
First you read his books published as Kazimierz Wybranowski no doubt about Dmowskis' true feelings towards Jews.
However not the hitlerites' type "untermensch" craze.
Rather dangerous and very smart enemy.
PolskaMan 2 | 147  
12 Mar 2009 /  #26
I wonder, what would you have done?

Hes to scared to answer
celinski 31 | 1,258  
12 Mar 2009 /  #27
Societies elsewhere rarely tolerate large minorities unwilling to assimilate

Not to mention one that wants there own country within your. I didn't see anyone else giving them this option.

My religion came from Jesus Christ, who was murdered by the Jews

Do they deny this? Not when they are referred to as the chosen. His beliefs were not that far off. He was looking out for Poland. What we must remember is what date he stated some of the things he did. We may hold a certian belief today that in 30 years is very differant.
Randal 1 | 577  
12 Mar 2009 /  #28
you are the one who speaks of hating Jews...I have never said such a thing, nor anyone else...We just discuss things, openly.

Sure. Saying things like their children should be murdered for where they live isn't hatred. Why, that's just discussing things openly. Lol... Maybe you better have a talk with your fellow Nazi Sokcrates.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
12 Mar 2009 /  #29
1. Unable to deal with minorities' problem in Poland - it refers not to the Polish Jews only but to Ukrainians or Germans as well.

There was no way to deal with minorities in Poland.

Germans were hostile for obvious reasons.
Jews were pro-communist and generally anti-Polish as 1939 would show.
Ukrainians wanted Lwów and Galicia.

Unless someone would resort to genocide which was of course out of the question there was no way to appease the largely hostile minorities.

2.On the contrary to Pilsudski he obviously underestimated the Russian (not even to mention Bolsheviks!) threat to Poland.

Russia itself had militarily problems finding its own asshole without a map, politically still relatively inept and new it was (before WW2) much less of a threat than Germany.

3.Yes, he was antisemitic but not even to compare with Hitler.

No he was not, he distrusted Jews and viewed them as hostile towards Poland, Russian occupation during which majority of the Jews turned away from Poland and Poles proved him right.

He always tried to prove his anti-Jewish rants were of purely political nature.

History proven him right and yes his "anti-Jewish" rants had solid political basis and were rooted only in this.

First you read his books published as Kazimierz Wybranowski no doubt about Dmowskis' true feelings towards Jews.
However not the hitlerites' type "untermensch" craze.

He did not LIKE Polish Jews, why? Because he was a patriot and major part of Jews were anti-Polish, its quite obvious that if you love your country and certain minority is hostile towards it you wont like them, that doesnt make you anti-semit.
OP Filios1 8 | 1,336  
12 Mar 2009 /  #30
He said that the last time Adolph Hitler went to church was for Josef Pilsudski's memorial service.

Yes. But you know what I think. I think that little Adolfek was just making sure that our Marszalek was really dead ;)

1. Unable to deal with minorities' problem in Poland - it refers not to the Polish Jews only but to Ukrainians or Germans as well.

Yes, this is true. But Dmowski's main problem with these minorities was that they basically made up the middle class in Poland. There were barely any native Polish middle-class, (either poor, or rich Poles) which he rightly saw, as a BIG problem in Poland. He called for land seizures and purging, something which I don't entirely agree with, but his fundamental idea was correct.

On the contrary to Pilsudski he obviously underestimated the Russian

No... I don't agree with this. I doubt that any Russian historians would call him pro-Russian. After all, this is the same man who made secret deals with the Japanese, before their war with Russia, and tried to organize a Polish volunteer brigade to aid the Japanese, as long as they supported Poland's fight for independence. They were to blow up important bridges and railways in North-Eastern Russia. This is now very well known.


  • Hitler at Pilsudski's Funeral

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