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Poland before WWII or Poland now what would you choose?


Ironside 50 | 11,110  
9 Jun 2009 /  #151
well, I don't think Poland has more rights than any other country to claim anything, this is my point.

You think wrong, but thats your right. You have not scored any points as you have only an opinion not arguments.

Oh, so now they weren't your partners anymore Ironside? :-)

What do you mean?

As for Roosevelt and Stalin - I see you agree! - no more bull about how good your government was and is?
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
9 Jun 2009 /  #152
no more bull about how good your government was and is?

Only Polish government was and is good. How you dare, Freebird, to say something against that? ;)
Mr Grunwald 31 | 2,079  
9 Jun 2009 /  #153
your country size has changed after the WWII and you still claim some territories in once eastern Poland right?

Because they are Poles???

Becaouse beeing pro-Poland not not Pro-everyone should get their historical lands back is a big difference
Ironside 50 | 11,110  
9 Jun 2009 /  #154
I do, Irony ;) I am waiting for you, my prince on a horse. Oh come, my love, I long your passion ;)

liked song?
So, you should )))))))))

What about my questions? avoidance?

Only Polish government was)

Not really they believed in French and British guaranties!

Only Polish government is good. How you dare, Freebird, to say something against that? ;)

He can say whatever he likes, I would put the bastards against the wall or better still hang them!
Mr Grunwald 31 | 2,079  
9 Jun 2009 /  #155
Good idea! Let our rivers turn red! (Ironic)
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
9 Jun 2009 /  #156
What about my questions? avoidance?

#190.

Not really they believed in French and British guaranties!

Like Ukrainians believed in Polish in 1920 in Riga?

Cok-cok-cok - kopytka kanyka zwuczaly
Letiw na sywomu mij prync
Z pid sosen tanky wyjizdzaly
I w Irona jazyk obwys.
;)
OP freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #157
Only Polish government was and is good. How you dare, Freebird, to say something against that? ;)

I guess I have to take it all back what I've said before, sorry;-)

Becaouse beeing pro-Poland

OK, my bad, I wasn't trying to be pro Poland

I would put the bastard against the wall or better still hang them

hang me Ironside? lol
Mr Grunwald 31 | 2,079  
9 Jun 2009 /  #158
OK, my bad, I wasn't trying to be pro Poland

You are forgived, it's allways good to tell us the truth
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
9 Jun 2009 /  #159
I am not sure whether Ironside will give you absolution so easily, Freebird. Pray hard. ;)
Ironside 50 | 11,110  
9 Jun 2009 /  #160
hang me Ironside? lol

No you, bastards from PGovernment!
Why should I hand you? There something we should know?

There wasn't such a Ukrainian state - hard to admit Nathan?))))
From where tanks? All you had from the soviet times is sold or rusted!)))))
OP freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #161
You are forgived, it's allways good to tell us the truth

Thank you Grunwald. As far as the truth, no one really knows it. Many people claim to know it but we might be all wrong that's why I tend to be at least open-minded and listen to what people have to say and choose for myself the most credible situation.

Now I'm going to ask you About Gdansk/Danzig. Is (was) this town really Polish? I mean it's clear it is now but what about the past? Please try to give me honest answers, straight from your brain and not your heart.
Ironside 50 | 11,110  
9 Jun 2009 /  #162
I tend to be at least open-minded and listen to what people have to say

let me tell you its not working))))))00
OP freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #163
why do you think so?
Ironside 50 | 11,110  
9 Jun 2009 /  #164
from your posts as I don't know you personally.
You come across as somebody with limited ability to understand other - maybe because you don't understand yourself- you are quite intelligent but limited.

Don't know why!
something is lacking - maybe you're preoccupied with something?

Bratwurst

You liked?
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 10,703  
9 Jun 2009 /  #165
You liked?

No fear...we are much to fat for our panzers!
Ironside 50 | 11,110  
9 Jun 2009 /  #166
too much Bra... ?sorry))))))
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
9 Jun 2009 /  #167
From where tanks?

We keep them in stables like our neighbors - you never know. ;)
OP freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #168
you are quite intelligent but limited.

hmmm, I gotta say a very smart statement Ironside "intelligent but limited", not bad, lol

something is lacking

did you ever think that way about yourself? It's an option, believe me.

limited ability to understand other

did you think for just a second that maybe I just disagree with you. You know disagreeing is not the same as not understanding.

Back to my question.
I'm going to ask you again about Gdansk/Danzig. Do you seriously believe that this town was always Polish? I mean it's clear it is now but what about the past? No propaganda or your feelings involved please, strictly facts.
Ironside 50 | 11,110  
9 Jun 2009 /  #169
We keep them in stables like our neighbors - you never know. ;)

I think I should take over government in Kiev as a heir of XIII Ruryk Dukes, well if =Ukrainian !
They should be glad!))))))))))

did you ever think that way about yourself? It's an option, believe me.

oh I have no doubt that I'm not perfect - far from it
but my faults or lacks have no bearings on my ability to understand others and all my arguments here! You are presenting only opinion based on your limited knowledge of historical facts mixed with your American attitude to simplify issues - sometimes is asset, but in this case is not!

did you think for just a second that maybe I just disagree with you. You know disagreeing is not the same as not understanding.

Yet your only arguments were:
-if Poland can, everybody can - which I find derogatory and silly.
- I think - well, so what?It thats supposed to have deeper meaning ?

I'm going to ask you again about Gdansk/Danzig. Do you seriously believe that this town was always Polish? I mean it's clear it is now but what about the past? No propaganda or your feelings involved please, strictly facts.

You asking me that question for a first time.
No, Danzig wasn't always Polish - and?Did I ever said that?
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
9 Jun 2009 /  #170
Gdansk/Danzig. Is (was) this town really Polish?

To give you an exact answer, Gdańsk started as a small keep built by the first recorded(there were many before him) Polish ruler Mieszko I, Germans first move there approximately a century later and while Gdańsk politically changes hands it remains a majorily Polish city throught the millenium untill late 16 century, Germans become a clear majority in early/mid 17 century and the city changes its character from Polish to German untill its returned to Poland post 45.

So yes Gdańsk is historically Polish, Poles built it, Poles originally inhabited it and Poles constituted the ruling political body and the majority of the inhabitants for most of a thousand years.

Before WW2 it was clearly a German city but the claim that Gdańsk is historically German is ridiculous and baseless, its a Polish built historically Polish city the only claim Germans had to it was population based and even that for historically relatively brief and late period.
Harry  
9 Jun 2009 /  #171
I can't wait to see your justification for Breslau being a Polish city!
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
9 Jun 2009 /  #172
As you probably noticed i'm ignoring (and will continue to do so) most of your posts on account of you being a prejudiced anti-Polish prick and rarely have anything of value to say but this post is interesting so i'll reply, dont get your hopes up wont reply to your further posts though :)))

Wrocław was originally built by Bohemians(Czechs) then it became Polish, then Bohemian, then Austrian, then Prussian, then German, then Polish again, i dont really think anyone could historically claim the city as theirs as no group was dominant for longer than 2 or 3 centuries, so what remains is the population claim and the city as you know is nearly 100% Polish inhabited so presently its a very Polish city :)))
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #173
First off all Poland doesn't need to justyfy annything as long as Poland wasn't decider. And was the biggest vicimes of WWII. Milions of Polish people were murdered...

After the war:
milions of Polish people were packed in to cattle trains and moved from their homes after the war.
OP freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #174
-if Poland can, everybody can - which I find derogatory and silly.

maybe for you, I bet most of people would agree with me (at least non Poles)and it's not silly what I'm saying unless you Polish. From your point of view it is because why would you admit that Germans have the right to claim their long lost land. I'm not gonna call your point derogatory or silly, this would the Polish way of getting out of this situation but your opinion is absolutely one-sided and only to be accepted by your country men. You haven't wrote the World's history (thank God). I don't see any reason why I would take up for Poles or anyone else. I love history but I disagree with your one-sided crap. If we discuss then keep it reasonable because quite a few people out there might suddenly find your opinion about what has happened in the past false and your arguments silly.

Before WW2 it was clearly a German city but the claim that Gdańsk is historically German is ridiculous and baseless

this is what you're saying and the following is what I found out about it
danzigfreestate.org/history.html
I obviously disagree with you about Danzig.
Why can't you guys just say, hey we lost our eastern Poland and they gave us ex German territories as a compensation for that loss. I can eat that but denying historical facts is something I can't put up with. Sorry guys Danzig wasn't built by the Poles and over the centuries the population of Danzig spoke German. The town had a Polish period in its history and that's about it. Sorry, kill me for that and I'll still be saying it, lol.

I can't wait to see your justification for Breslau being a Polish city!

yep and that too :-)
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #175
Now what happened durring the war: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Germany



Expulsions Polish citizens from anexed areas of Poland after 1939

It is estimated that between 1.6 and 2 million people were expelled from their homes during the German occupation of Poland. Only the German organized expulsions affected directly 1,710,000 Poles. These numbers do not include people arrested by the Germans and sent to Nazi concentration camps.[9]

In many instances, Poles were given between 15 minutes and 1 hour to collect their personal belongings (usually no more than 15 kilograms per person) before they were removed their homes and transported east (see: deportations) On top of that about 5 million[citation needed] Poles were sent to German concentration camps. A total of about 6 million Polish citizens were killed during the war. All these actions resulted in significant changes in Polish demographics at the end of the war.

Torq  
9 Jun 2009 /  #176
Now I'm going to ask you About Gdansk/Danzig. Is (was) this town really Polish?

I can't wait to see your justification for Breslau being a Polish city!

Erm... correct me if I'm wrong but both Gdańsk and Wrocław are cities within
the borders of Republic of Poland and both those cities have almost 100% Polish
population.

If that isn't enough for some people to consider Gdańsk and Wrocław to be Polish
then I can only pity such persons and wish that they would stop living in denial.

Luckily, most people in Europe understand that it's better to leave history
to historians and move on.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
9 Jun 2009 /  #177
this is what you're saying and the following is what I found out aboit it

Ah but it doesnt contradict anything i said! Danzing was populated by increasingly large German majority for the past 300 years! The issue is that it was populated by a Polish majority for another 700 years and was built by Poles!

That it was a free city or under Teutonic influence doesnt change the fact that for 2/3rds of its history it was populated and developed by Poles.

However this entire link is absolutely worthless and useless, it claims that we do not know when did the first settlement came to be when we have clear historical and archeological account of Mieszko I of Poland building a stronghold there, please post non-biased links that do not attempt to put across falsified history that fits your emotional views rather than historical facts :)

If your source ignores such an important fact as Poles building the first organized settlement there then its clearly a worthless and biased one.

The origins of Gdansk

The first mention of Gdańsk comes from 999 years , and we find it in the " Lives of the Saints . Wojciech " which speak of the Christian mission of the bishop, sent to Eastern Pomerania will of Boleslaw the Brave . It ended with the death of Adalbert , however , the future saint. Name of Gdansk saved in this document is " Gyddanyzc ", showing Slavic origin . Hundreds of years later appeared as the German name Danzig - " Danzig" .

As is clear from the archaeological research in the second half of X in Gdańsk from a small fishing village began to grow in importance, the town and harbor. Founding of the city in the years 960-980 . Although fishing and agriculture was then widely developed , as evidenced by excavations , the main wealth of castles Pomerania , including Gdańsk was trade and shipping . Transported away furs, honey and wax , but by far the biggest interest was , of course, amber , after which traders came from the most distant countries.

We know when the Polish city of Gdańsk was built, we know even the height of the earth walls surrounding it and yet your incredibly biased source ingores one of the most basic and historically sound facts of Poles building the city, please stop the bias :)))
Salomon 2 | 436  
9 Jun 2009 /  #178
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
OP freebird 3 | 532  
9 Jun 2009 /  #179
Erm... correct me if I'm wrong but both Gdańsk and Wrocław are cities within
the borders of Republic of Poland

no one denies it as far as after 1945 Torq.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
9 Jun 2009 /  #180
Oh you deny quite a lot, for example you posted a source that blatantly lies about the history of the city despite credible archeological evidence that says otherwsie, check the link :)))

Its not the only historical lie that your source puts across but i'm not going to pick apart such worthless revisionist pseudo-historical trash, post something credible.

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