Poland before WWII or Poland now what would you choose?

I like your stupid logic, Salomon. And I see many will do the same. You are willing to accuse anyone, but say anything against Russians. Germany was destroyed and they would have signed to pay anyone who had any word in it. Neither Poland, nor Ukraine had a say in it. Soviets stole the money and it is not Germans' fault that they didn't hear Polish voice when they were paying off. Russia is responsible for the money as it declared itself as rightful descendant of Soviet Union taking all the money SU had with all the debts (Russia crossed out all the debts right away). And I see you will defend Russia's accusation of Poland causing the WW2, hm? What else, Salomon?

You are stupid Nathan. Germany payed money for wrong country. It is not Polands business. As I've said it is good that they haven't payed it for Iran, North Korea or Egipt. LOL

Germans payed money for their ally form 1939 with whom they invaded Poland.

Well... why do you think?


You can't prove this with any facts, this is just your opinion. Where did the monies for Poland's immediate post-war reconstruction come from?

I have given you the contact details for the Russian Presidential Office. So contact them and ask why they stole Poland's share of reparations or would you like me to do it for you since you obviously still need spoon-feeding. LOL.


Quite clearly this is Poland's problem not Germany's as you keep saying Germany should have "'payed money" to Poland not USSR.

But actually there is no problem after all, as both the Polish and German governments agreed in 2004 that there was no legal basis for either country to pay reparations to each other. Maybe you should contact the Polish government and ask them why they decided not to persue this further?


Lets not forget that Nazi Germany was an ally of Poland at one time:
The German-Polish Non-Aggression Pact an international treaty between Nazi Germany and Poland signed on January 26, 1934.

Do you know how Polands recnostruction looked like.... Socialistic ... everybody worked. Poland haven't received single dollar from Soviets and also Soviets forbiden for Poland to participate in Marshal plan ...


Of course they should pay it for Poland not for USSR.

Maybe Poland should pay some current debts for North Korea and tell creditors that they should talk with North Korea. LOL


Well ... if it is somebodys merci it is Polish merci. In my opinion it is totaly wrong.

Poland was invaded by Soviets and Germans in 1939.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov-Ribbentrop_Pact


Soviet and German officers meeting after the invasion of Poland

Sure I can (don't care about Napoleon or Plato).
Can you prove that Daniel was Ukrainian?


without German state there would hadn't been two wars - that an idea - better safe then sorry ! ))

This German map shows how Poland looked at the beginning. Thanks Germans. Pomerania was slavic groups including Kaszubian. Prussia was slavic group that worshiped the snake.

Slavic groups inhabited parts of what is now northern Germany including Rostock and Lubeck until they were kicked out by westward Germans.

Gdansk was established by a Slavic monk. Mieszko simply took it over. Mieszko did not one day say here will be a sea town. The monk did that. Nothing to do with Germany.

Slavs occupied northern Europe first. The Germans came down from Scandinavia afterwards and took over . Remember Poland is over 1000 years old. Germany is couple hundred years old.

This map shows Lviv as in Ukraine. Poland took over Lviv to develop Lwow. Lwow is pretty much a Polish town in the Ukrane. Like having an adopted child. Try taking a child away from parents that adopt it. Lwow should be Ukranian but open for all to develop - like all cities should be.

Wilno became Polish through friendly marriage of King and Queen. Why we fighting over Wilno?

Finally - I am convinced that Bratworst is a Fictionary character made up by the Polish Forums to inspire/provoke debate and cause Poles to defend their country and history because I can't beleive one person could consistantly come onto this forum and be so wrong each time. You lose your arguments and just say, " just get over it/move on/blah blah...)

• 
  jazwingenl_copy.jpg
  

Like having taken back a stolen child. From fake parents that stole it and keep on whining.
Otherwise, Ogorki, good point. I think Ironside and Sokrates should look at Przemysl on your map.


Prove.

Gdansk - yet the first time we hear of it is 997 Then a bishop voyaging in the train of Prince Boleslaw the Brave conducted a mass baptism in the port town, or urbs, without realising he was marking an official birth too. The date appears in the writings of the scribe Johannis Cannaparius, a Benedicte monk, who dutifully recorded Gdansk as having been visited by Bishop Adalbert.

Yes Germans lived there. It's not our fault they are a pushy outspoken bunch and get their names recorded as living there.

historytoday.com/MainArticle.aspx?m=13497&amid=13497

Oh come on Nathan, its proven scientifically that Ukrainian people aint human and have no souls, how can you claim you have right to anything?

It is better to be inhuman and without soul than having all that and treat it like garbage.

According to this map I have Prussian Jazwingen origin :)
moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/sadowski.html

First Pole in USA :)

poles.org/DB/S_names/Sadowski_A/Sadowski_art.html

Nathan do you think that Lithuenians should have the right to expel me just because I have Polish national identity.

The problem is that Poles never expeled annybody in Wilno or . Unlike the Germans in Gdańsk or in Prussia...

Anny way it is not Poland who should fight over the maps. Decisions were made somewhere ealse.

Przemysl was first invaded by the Hungarians. How it ended up Polish is unclear. How do you know it was by force? Like I said earlier - Wilnius became Polish through friendly marriage between King and Queen. It was mutual. Countries can gain land peacefully also. Can you confirm history of Przemysl and how it became Polish?

Can you confirm how Lviv became Polish? Maybe they lost it in a bet? Sold it? Who knows?

Show me one place where I said anything about expulsion based on any reason whatsoever.
I don't need to confirm about my city anything. I know it was and is Ukrainian. If you are interested in history of Lviv, there are plenty of literature.

You first, i asked first..... Anyway you should stop silly sulkiness and admit that you are Polish !


So what?
Germans are maniacs to be keep in check, and under control :

Thats not constructive.

One day I'd like to visit Lviv/Lwow and buy a burger with a Ukranian friend and then maybe start renovating those bloody buildings before they fall down

Try renovating some buildings here first, type in Gliwice ghetto to Youtube.

They won't fall and many are under reconstruction now. But, hey, help is always of great value, Ogorki. I agree absolutely that everything has to be done to bring the city to the top notch.

So why majority of its citizens fought against incorporation into Ukraine ?

LOL

Or Wilno

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Central_Lithuania

Where its citzens made pro-Polish uprise....

Anny way. the fact that Poland lost this cities and so many of its citzens were expeled after WWII to Poland ... show only how much Poland had to say after WWII...

As to Germans they wanted to expele all ethnic Poles from Poland ... it is much different story.

Can't prove Nathan? ))))))))))

Now admit you are Polish!

What buildings Seanus?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toruń

I know you want it badly, Iron :). No, I am Ukrainian. The song is really beautiful :)

You murdered natives from Lwów ... and people who simple moved there from Poland ...

Building in central Gliwice are full of holes and are crumbling too.

Ironside, you sound imperialistic. Nathan is Ukrainian. It's not his fault that Poland couldn't get its act together politically. Poland needs to know what it wants more. Polish history has shown how many blow with the breeze, like leaves. Look at Gomułka, he was very popular and quickly lost it.

Many can't even admit that communist sentiment came from within, albeit not of the type that Russia envisaged and promoted. Look at Cyrankiewicz for example. Russia offered Poles hope, some of their proposals were attractive at that time. It was sth like the hope that Hitler seemed to offer Germans. Full employment was the main pull, coupled with the cessation of the war.

... and guess what by 1941 Poland and Soviet Union were allies again!

Maybe they thought the Non-Aggression Pact would hold. That would have been naive though.

As to Soviets it is enought to see what have happened fro memebers of the most popular anti-Nazi resistance underground were muredered or imprisoned.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armia_Krajowa



And later Germany payed compensation for Soviets LOL ...

What is more Poles were expeled form towns on east... and it only shows how much Poles had to say after the war.

What is more:

geocities.com/Pentagon/9764/warpoland.html

Salomon, talk is cheap. Look at the ME peace process as the prime example. You had all the academics ruminating and politicians blowing air but the truth of the matter was that higher powers would always dictate the course of events.

Yeh, these Germans were beasts. First, they made Soviets to kill AK soldiers and then paid money to Soviets. Oh, these Germans...;)

First of all Nathan Germans are first country which tells Poland to forget about you and let Russians dominate Ukraine. In my opinion they might be right... (for all Polish people - read Nathan)

As to Germans ... they destryed Warsaw... and other Polish cities... and payed money for wrong country.

Nobody will dominate anyone unless someone will let itself to be dominated. Poland should choose the best way for its citizens - this is priority. I said it many times that I am grateful for any political support possible from Poland. No matter what Poland does, it should do in her own interests - not in anyone else's. You should not sacrifice anything. Do whatever you see right for the future of Polish people. That's it.