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Western Europe and America vs Russia WWII - chances of Poland being saved


Wroclaw Boy  
26 May 2009 /  #1
When the two great armies faced each other after the fall of Berlin should they have continued fighting it out for total World dominance?

The Allies were soon to develop nuclear technology - a sure winner. Poland and all the other coutries devoured by Russia could have been saved!!

Even without the nuclear bomb I wonder who would have won.

I dont really do hypothetics but this ones quite interestning. Communism may have been crushed, Nazism instinct.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #2
In the end the US but not without nukes and in the end Poland would have been "saved" but now being a nuclear waste land (others too).

So...
OP Wroclaw Boy  
26 May 2009 /  #3
Poland would have been saved but a nuclear waste land

If they were quick enough a couple of Nukes on strategic russian targets, not neccisarily in Poland may have done the job. Also even without nukes Russia would not have had air superiority by a long shot.

Just imagine nuclear bombs being dropped on Rusiian infantry, waahh.

Poland a nuclear waste land!! remember Chernobyl?
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #4
Just imagine nuclear bombs being dropped on Rusiian infantry, waahh.

I imagine! :)
nunczka 8 | 458  
26 May 2009 /  #5
In the last days of WW2. Germany attempted to convince the western Allies to join them in the war against Russia. With Western Allies and Germany with replenished supplies, it would have been a piece of cake. Fighting on one front with the German PANZERLIED on the loose again. It would not take long to conquer Russia
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #6
Patton was all for it.
He wanted the surrendering SS units held together in good conditions with their weapons nearby...:)
He knew he could count on them!
fred_chopin  
26 May 2009 /  #7
It would not take long to conquer Russia

But how to win the peace? Think Iraq.... What workable system could be installed in Post-War Russia?
nunczka 8 | 458  
26 May 2009 /  #8
There will always be war After WW.1
The saying was ( The war to end all wars)

WW2 (Lest we forget)

Korean War The domino effect)

Viet Nam (Never again)

Kuwait ( UN supported)
Kosovo (UN supporetd

IRAQ (WMD)

Afganistan ( Taliban)

What next?
McCoy 27 | 1,275  
26 May 2009 /  #9
forgot about Balkan war
markcooper 4 | 80  
26 May 2009 /  #10
When the two great armies faced each other after the fall of Berlin should they have continued fighting it out for total World dominance?

The Allies were soon to develop nuclear technology - a sure winner. Poland and all the other coutries devoured by Russia could have been saved!!

Even without the nuclear bomb I wonder who would have won.

I dont really do hypothetics but this ones quite interestning. Communism may have been crushed, Nazism instinct.

To some extent this is ongoing. The gun / armies being replaced by $$$s and American corporations. Hence there is now a global Amercian culture / influence almost everwhere.

The collapse of the soviet union was predetermined by sharp falls in world oil prices. Somthing which at the time the soviet union was reliant upon for revenue with regards to upgrading and arming the red army. There is a theory that at the time oil prices were orchestrated / manipulated to have this effect. Hence Oil / $$$ replaces the bullet.
sjam 2 | 541  
26 May 2009 /  #11
Gen. Anders tried many times to convince the US to be prepared for WWIII which he thought was only two years or so away from the end of WWII, hence his attempts at creating a European Catholic Alliance with Franco's Spain throughout 1947-48.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #12
Question....WOULD had Poles fighted along german troops against the Soviets if the pushes came to shove?
nunczka 8 | 458  
26 May 2009 /  #13
WOW! I cant wait to see the answer to this one.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #14
*shares popcorn with nunczka during waiting*
fred_chopin  
26 May 2009 /  #15
WOULD had Poles fighted along german troops against the Soviets if the pushes came to shove?

Oh, yes. I am sure there would be NO problems....
Torq 32 | 2,999  
26 May 2009 /  #16
WOULD had Poles fighted along german troops against the Soviets if the pushes
came to shove?

If we were a part of western block and had a military alliance with Germany,
then YES, of course, in the case of Soviet attack we would have fought
alongside German troops.

You see, BB - we are honourable people, we keep our alliances and obligations
(we wouldn't for example attack a country, like cowards, without declaring the
war first... but that's another story).
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #17
Question....WOULD had Poles fighted along german troops against the Soviets if the pushes came to shove?

This epizode comes to my mind ... :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Józef_Piłsudski

At a meeting in Paris in 1914, Piłsudski presciently declared that in the impending war, for Poland to regain independence, Russia must be beaten by the Central Powers (the Austro-Hungarian and German Empires), and the latter powers must in their turn be beaten by France, Britain and the United States.

Polish Legions (Polish Legiony Polskie) was the name of Polish armed forces created in August of 1914 in Galicia. Thanks to the efforts of KSSN and the Polish members of the Austrian parliament, the unit became an independent formation of the Austro-Hungarian Army. They were composed mostly of former members of various scouting organisations, including Drużyny Strzeleckie and Związek Strzelecki, as well as volunteers from all around the empire.

Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #18
Remember the chaos of '45 Torqi, no western block, no official alliance with a non-existent anymore Germany...just soldiers...lot's of it...who yesterday still tried to kill each other...

You see, BB - we are honourable people, we keep our alliances and obligations
(we wouldn't for example attack a country, like cowards, without declaring the
war first... but that's another story).

Well....you DID attack Iraq without declaring war first but I agree, that's yet another story...

So you would not throw your grenade at me???
Harry  
26 May 2009 /  #19
WOULD had Poles fighted along german troops against the Soviets if the pushes came to shove?

History suggests that they would.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Cross_Mountains_Brigade
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #20
This epizode comes to my mind ... :

What is more during WWI ... somebody had much better political instinct than durring WWII ...
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #21
History suggests that they would

Interesting! That is news to me...
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #22
Holy_Cross_Mountains_Brigade


Torq 32 | 2,999  
26 May 2009 /  #23
Well....you DID attack Iraq

I meant a proper country ;-)

So you would not throw your grenade at me???

lol

I don't know... now that you mention it, I might feel tempted to do that.
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #24
WWI was beautiful part of Polish history - tactical alliance with occupator later delicious betrayal and victory ... Independence :-)

WWII is much worst story.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
26 May 2009 /  #25
History suggests that they would.

"they" is a big word and it refers to about 1500 racists, much like KKK or Harry.

So based on history a fair estimate would be that no, Poles would not fight on the German side, although there would be a tiny group of those Poles who would.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #26
So based on history a fair estimate would be that no, Poles would not fight on the German side, although there would be a tiny group of those Poles who would.

Even not as both groups very probably would be put under the western allied command fighting against the Soviets occupying Poland???
Honest question here...
Salomon 2 | 436  
26 May 2009 /  #27
Even if not both groups were fighting under the western allied command against the Soviets occupying Poland???

NSZ was right ... AK was so much allied with "Western" allies that after the war many of them were executed by soviets ... or imprisoned by them ... (one of the biggest anti-nazi resistance in europe ... )

Part of NSZ was able to survive and withdraw on west... when it was clear that west is not going to help for Poland ... they saved their life after proud fight against occupators.

If you ask if NSZ was killing Soviets - yes

If you ask if NSZ was killing Germans - yes
Harry  
26 May 2009 /  #28
"they" is a big word and it refers to about 1500 racists, much like KKK or Harry.

So based on history a fair estimate would be that no, Poles would not fight on the German side, although there would be a tiny group of those Poles who would.

Click the links and you'll appear much less of a moron. The word "they refers to both the Holy Cross Mountains Brigade and to AK forces which accepted weapons from the nazis to fight the Soviets with. The AK were not fighting on the German side you idiot, they were fighting on the Polish side and sometimes that meant fighting the same people the nazis were fighting. I know that historical fact is of no relevance at all to you but the facts are still the facts.
z_darius 14 | 3,968  
26 May 2009 /  #29
Even not as both groups very probably would be put under the western allied command fighting against the Soviets occupying Poland???
Honest question here...

Honest answer then - nobody and everybody is right in this thread. We're a debating what cannot be debated since that time is gone and the scenario given for this thread did not occur.

All I know is that during WW1 Germans complained how Poles did not want to fight for Germany.

What I posted was only in reference to the Harryfying post. Based on actions of a few hundred Harry draws his conclusion about the entire nation, and he considers those very few representative of the Polish people. He does not mention Poles as the 4th largest military force in Europe fighting against Germans. In his usual anti-Polish way he always desecrates the memory of millions of Poles who Perished killed by the nazis. I don't think those would be willing to fight with the Germans.
Bratwurst Boy 6 | 10,526  
26 May 2009 /  #30
Even not if they could avoid future occupation of Poland???

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