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World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World


Nathan 18 | 1,363  
18 Jun 2009 /  #211
Sounds like an even squabble which was settled reasonable.
You see even brothers fight sometimes :)

What in the holy fcuk are you talking about? Move 20 years later:

"But Hitler wasn't satisfied! He wanted German troops to enter the Sudetenland at once -- something Chamberlain refused to allow. With war looking imminent, on September 23, the Czechoslovakian military mobilized to defend against Nazi Germany(they were ready and able to defend their territory, but here we go...).

Poland then made its move.

On September 27, seeing that Czechoslovakia was in dire straits with Nazi troops readying to invade, Poland issued an ultimatum, demanding that Czechoslovakia hand over its Tesin (Teschen) district".

Then, Poland was the first to steal Czech territory.
"Oh, Poland, the deads of your mercy and peacefulness shine on the world of sin in full glory" (Psalm 155, History on Peacefulness and Vulturelessness)

As far as I see, Poland was WWll direct instigator.
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
18 Jun 2009 /  #212
I wouldn't say instigator, Nathan, that was always gonna be the Germans and then the Russians. They were just biding their time. Poland, in opportunistic fashion, acquired territory. Such things happen in such times. They by no means were the architects of WWII.
Ogorki - | 114  
18 Jun 2009 /  #213
Ok one by one. Poland started out with similar borders to what it has now. Prussia started in north east part close to where Russian enclave kaliningrad is now. Prussia expanded into pomerania and silesia and eastern Germany but was destroyed by napoleaon - which in turn freed up Poland from the partition. Lithuania took over Bielorus and western ukraine to become Grand Duchy of Lithuania. Poland combined with Lithuania peacfully through marriage of Lithuanian Queen and Polish King.

Where did Poland take any of your listed countries by force?

The partitions were not a mercy mission to restore lost territories from Duchy of Lithuania -they were to defend against an ever stronger Kingdom of Poland.

During the seige of Vienna - the Turks were outside viennea and threatened to take all of Europe. Germany, Prussia, France etc begged Poland to attack the Turks because Poland was the best power in Europe. Poland defeated the Turks, saved Europe and how did Europe thank Poland - approx 70 years later - dismantle the country.

Thank you very much you back stabbing mother fackers :)

Why don't we partition USA and give land back to Indians or Spanish?
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
18 Jun 2009 /  #214
Sounds like an even squabble which was settled reasonable.

Of course....Poles are always right! Vultures are always only the others...
Didn't I mention that already???
Ogorki - | 114  
18 Jun 2009 /  #215
What in the holy fcuk are you talking about? Move 20 years later:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish-Czechoslovak_border_conflicts

Read the text. 1919 Czechoslovakia and Poland already fighting. They agree to an interim border. 1919 Poland is fighting with Ukraine regarding eastern Galacia and Czechoslovakia take advantage of weaker Polish troops and enter interim Polish territory. The allies have to intervene and stop Czech advance.

Sound familiar?

1939 Poland returns the favour to Czechoslovakia

Yes Poland may have sided with Hitler in 1938 to get parts of Czechoslovakia but Slovakia sided with Hitler in 1939 to retrieve territory from Poland :)

This re-annexation happened in October 1939 (officially confirmed on 24 November 1939) when Slovakia supported Nazi Germany's attack on Poland in September 1939

however -...

The Czechoslovak President Beneš, decided to give the territories regained during WWII (i. e. northern Spiš and northern Orava) to Poland again
freebird 3 | 532  
18 Jun 2009 /  #216
Why the hell even continue with this and most of the other threads on this forum. They will shut it down whenever it becomes uncomfortable for Poles just like they did shut down my thread. Ridiculous understanding of democracy by most of you Poles, unfortunitely.

Not at all. It will be shut down when it becomes ridiculously off-topic, boring or repetitive either within itself or another thread. Remember, the OP is responsible for keeping it on topic. Don't just post and disappear.
krysia 23 | 3,057  
18 Jun 2009 /  #217
Some people can never let go of the past. Why relive the horror over and over?
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
18 Jun 2009 /  #218
Back-stabbers? Haha, if you mean Poles, you have a reason.

Ukrainians saved you against Turks - Battle of Khotyn (1621) against Ottoman empire, in 1618-20 attacked Russians to defeat them and save your king's son, in 1630s they sunk 2 Swedish ships in the Baltic sea within 1st week of campaign since your fleet was practically non-existant - are just some examples.

Although cossack sea raids were already common by 16th century, they really became popular in the 17th century. The most successfull ones occured in early 17th century under the leadership of Hetman (general) Petro Sahajdachnyj

In 1606 the cossack fleet raided Turkish fortress Akerman (Bilgorod-Dnistrovsky) and fortres of Warna. This was one of the larges raids yet, and cought attention of all Europe.

In 1609 cossacks again burned the cities of Kylia and Izmail.

In 1613 a number of Krymian cities were burned. The Turkish sultan send his Black Sea armada to stop the raiders, but the cossacks attacked the Turkish ships at night completelly defeating the armada and capturing 6 large galleys.

In 1614 another two raids were carried out and although the first one failed due to the storm, but the second time, the city of Trapezynd was destoyed. The cossack navy then continued and burned to the ground the city of Sinop, burning the Turkish galleys in the docks.

Cossacks storming city of Kafa

In 1617 the cossack navy again left for another raid and meet the Ottoman fleet. In the outcome the Turks were defeated once more and their Admiral was killed in that battle.

More daring sea raids occured in the years from 1618 until 1630's. Throughout that time the raids would be carried almost each year.
In the year 1625 the cossacks raided Turkey three times again burning parts of Istambul forcing the Sultan to flee his palace.

This is called fearless battles were the commander-in-chief leaves not only the field of battle, but house and city where he lives! What would be of Poland if Cossacks didn't keep Turks in check for 150 years while you were stealing Ukrainian lands and treating people like sh*t.Tell me now, "Saviors of Europe", fighting along German, French and Austrian armies in one battle in 1683 at Vienna that you saved Europe. ;)

Please, save not only me, but others from laughter, "saviours".
Torq  
18 Jun 2009 /  #219
You pot smoking hippy!!! SNAP OUT OF IT!

LOL

I was called many names before but "pot smoking hippy" is something new :)

Yes Poland had inner termoil - just like any other country but that was no business to her neighbours who took advantage of that termoil and systematically partitioned the country. Poland did not partition herself! It took three jealous, intimidated and ignorant neighbours who in a cowardly fassion ganged up on Poland to resecure their own place in Europe.

We created most of the problems ourselves and Russia, Prussia and Austria only
took advantage of it. We would probably do the same if we were in their shoes.

We kept making such terrible mistakes throughout history that it really makes
me wonder sometimes about people who are considered national heroes.

Look even at the Kosciuszko's insurrection after the second partition - completely
pointless. Starting a war against all three superpowers Austria, Prussia and Russia
at the same time was nothing short of lunacy. We still had Warsaw, Kraków, Wilno
and Lublin when Kosciuszko started the insurection - after it we lost it all.
Think how stronger our position would have been if we had joined the Napoleonic
side in later wars as an independent country (small and weak but still) not as
beggars without their own state, desperately looking for someone to give us some
sort of independence.

Just because a country becomes volnerable through selfishness - or whatever, it does not give the right for neighbours to behave like vultures.

Of course not, but my point still stays valid. We ourselves are mainly to blame
for what had happened to our country - our neighbours only did what we could
expect them to do.

You seem to be very patriotic, but you completely missed the point of my post.
It was about looking for the fault in ourselves not in others and about trying to
make Poland a better and stronger country in the future.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
18 Jun 2009 /  #220
Ridiculous understanding of democracy by most of you Poles, unfortunitely.

We are all communist freebird, for comrade Stalin! fokin' bugger

Please, save not only me, but others from laughter, "saviours

Yes we saved Europe, Ukraine always was rightfully ours and Russian and you're just temporary guests there and we never treated Ukrainian people like sh*t, we just made you our serfs and slaves, whats wrong about that? I mean you were happy, look at how bitter you are because you cant work our fields Nathan, you're just screaming "bring back serfdom!"

:))))
freebird 3 | 532  
18 Jun 2009 /  #221
We are all communist

I never said all, you are
Seanus 15 | 19,706  
18 Jun 2009 /  #222
Krysia is right, APU. I hear some people now saying, 'we cannot forget the past incase we repeat it'. Oh, how virtuous! :( We have allowed numerous international catastrophes since WWII so they can't play the righteous card.

Vietnam, Rwanda and Bosnia spring to mind.
Babinich 1 | 455  
18 Jun 2009 /  #223
There was never a single partition of Poland!

Sure, Poland was never partitioned:

1772: Prussia, Russia, Austria

Remember what Fredrick the Great said about devouring Polish provinces "like an artichoke, leaf by leaf"?

Prussia & Russia increased their territory in 1792, the second partition.

All three: Prussia, Russia, Austria obtained more territory in 1794. The Commonwealth was erased; this was the third partition.

And let us not forget the partition of 1939: the Soviet - Nazi partition.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
18 Jun 2009 /  #224
I'm not sure treating Nathan seriously does you any good, the guy is our little one man UPA forum warrior :))))
Harry  
18 Jun 2009 /  #225
The Ukrainians invaded Poland with the Russians with the aim of destroying her.

Are you on crack? Poland and Ukraine were on the same side during the Polish-Soviet war, that is why they signed the 1920 Treaty of Warsaw. Then in 1921 when the Soviets were beaten the Poles decided to stab their allies in the back and steal half of Ukraine, so they signed the Peace of Riga and did just that.
Mr Grunwald 30 | 2,001  
18 Jun 2009 /  #226
1 time ive ever seen Harry is correct in an historical point of view
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
18 Jun 2009 /  #227
Sure, Poland was never partitioned

That's what I said in #264.

:))))

As always big f*cking Polish mouth - lots of words and no sense.
OP Wroclaw Boy  
18 Jun 2009 /  #228
I cant believe this thread is still going it was one of my first.
freebird 3 | 532  
18 Jun 2009 /  #229
you know how to keep it going too, lol.
OP Wroclaw Boy  
18 Jun 2009 /  #230
Check the thread man im not revitalising it. Frankly im embarressed by some of my earlier threads.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
18 Jun 2009 /  #231
Ukrainians saved you against Turks - Battle of Khotyn (1621) against Ottoman empire

Every time I meet an Ukrainian I'm 100% sure he is going to mention that Cossacks saved the Commonwealth in 1621 at the battle of Khotyn... It's as if you people were programmed to do so.

Unfortunately, aside of the 20 000 Cossacks that took part in the battle there were also Lithuanians and Poles, who made up about 30 000 troops plus over 6 000 German infantry, but I'm sure they all were just lying on the floor and resting.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
18 Jun 2009 /  #232
Every time I meet an Ukrainian I'm 100% sure he is going to mention that Cossacks saved the Commonwealth in 1621 at the battle of Khotyn... It's as if you people were programmed to do so.

Its their only serious military achievement, even if its made up:)) What Nathan fails to mention is that at the time the term "Cossacks" was also assigned to Polish and Lithuanian heavy cavalry type namely "Pancerny" the registry forces were about 15.000 large and did not play any significant part in the battle of Chocim, a unit of them got killed off when they charged the Ottomans against all orders but thats it.

Amusingly enough they never mention the battle of Batoh which is the only battle in Ukrainian history where Ruthenians managed to defeat a large regular Polish military force instead they choose to make stuff up :))

Even more so, Cossacks didnt provide artillery, they ddint provide gunners and the registry was armed by Poles so Nathan at the battle of Khotyn your people were nothing more than cannon fodder so expensive units like Pancerni, Winged Hussars or elite infantries would not be wasted.
freebird 3 | 532  
18 Jun 2009 /  #233
Check the thread man im not revitalising it

and even if you did, nothing's wrong with it. Who cares :-)
Ogorki - | 114  
18 Jun 2009 /  #234
You seem to be very patriotic, but you completely missed the point of my post.
It was about looking for the fault in ourselves not in others and about trying to
make Poland a better and stronger country in the future.

No I got this point very well but a country has a RIGHT to suffer inner termoil - make mistakes - and be inward lookeing etc in safety and it's neighbours can offer help or just mind their own business. Unless of course this country is causing direct problems to neighbours which in this case I don't think so.

If you were walking in streets and found a drunk man sitting on steps - would you take advantage and steal his wallet?

No.

If you did - then you would be a C*nt.

Same example. It will never become more complicated than that.

Please, save not only me, but others from laughter, "saviours".

All you have to do is read the history books, they all say the same thing.

Of course cossacks bravely faught the Turks but these were none decisive battles. They did not stop the Turks taking Europe and certainly did not save Poland from the Turks.

Before all this Poland was friendly with the Turks. They liked each other. The Polish nobility carried Turkish clothes. The cowboy boot originates from the Turkish boot. Kosciusko had Turkish boots when fighting in America and they caught on there:)

Poland did not want to attack Turks but had no choice.

If you want to deny history that is your problem. This forum does not want to know.

The victory of Vienna, which historians regard as one of the most decisive battles in the history of the world, saved Christian Europe from the Turkish domination that had lasted for many years.

Almost all European monarchs sent congratulations to King John. The Polish king and the army of the Commonwealth were seen as winners who confirmed Poland’s role as the bulwark of Christianity. To commemorate Sobieski’s victory Pope Innocent XI announced 12 September the day of glory of the Holy Name of Mary and to show his admiration for the Poles and their king the Pope accepted the sign of the Crowned Eagle into his papal coat of arms.


I have no problem with free speech - just don't undermine the honour and the integrity of fact.
freebird 3 | 532  
18 Jun 2009 /  #235
but I'm sure they all were just lying on the floor and resting

why would they be lying on the floor? lol
OP Wroclaw Boy  
18 Jun 2009 /  #236
Ukrainians saved you against Turks - Battle of Khotyn (1621) against Ottoman empire, in 1618-20 attacked Russians to defeat them and save your king's son, in 1630s they sunk 2 Swedish ships in the Baltic sea within 1st week of campaign since your fleet was practically non-existant - are just some examples.

Who gives a flying fcuk about the 1600's.
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
18 Jun 2009 /  #237
Before all this Poland was friendly with the Turks. They liked each other. The Polish nobility carried Turkish clothes.

yuck
Nathan 18 | 1,363  
18 Jun 2009 /  #238
It's as if you people were programmed to do so.

I see Poles programmed to tell about their single role saving of Europe and about being poor whining pussies who were unfairly beaten bu Ukrainian Cossacks. In all the forums you present yourself as the only nation out there to invent everything, to be generous and so on. Pure BS. Are you programmed?

Unfortunately, aside of the 20 000 Cossacks that took part in the battle there were also Lithuanians and Poles, who made up about 30 000 troops plus over 6 000 German infantry, but I'm sure they all were just lying on the floor and resting.

Listen, Herodotus, there was one historian already - Ogorki - who said that L'viv was captured by Lithuania in 1200, whereas it was founded in 1256. Where have you taken your army numbers?

"The Polish-Ukrainian-Lithuanian army numbered 30,000 (18,000 cavalry, 12,000 infantry) and further 25,000-30,000 Ukrainian Cossack army, led by ataman Petro Konashevych-Sahaidachny (mostly infantry)". en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Khotyn_(1621)

As you see Ukrainians were half of the total army force.
Why do I mention battle of Khotyn? I wish it didn't happen at all as many other battles where we fought for back-stabbing Polish pussies. Well, it is in the past and it can't be changed. You are saying that you saved the Europe whereas in the battle at Vienna the following army forces were present:

Troops Infantry Cavalry and Dragoons Cannons Total
Commonwealth 16,300 20,550 28 + 150 men 37,000
Austria 8,100 10,350 70 18,400
Bavaria 7,500 3,000 26 10,500
Swabia and Franconia 7,000 2,500 12 9,500
Saxony 7,000 2,000 16 9,000
Grand total: 45,900 38,350 152 84,450
Commonwealth which included not Poles, but Lithuanian as well (I am not mentioning other people) had 37,000 army. Austrians, French and Germans had 47,400 army. And you say Poland saved Europe, but when I said that Cossacks saved Commonwealth at Khotyn where Ukrainian made half of the total force and major attacking one, you say I am programed. Haha. Polish mentality, nothing else ;)

Amusingly enough they never mention the battle of Batoh which is the only battle in Ukrainian history where Ruthenians managed to defeat a large regular Polish military force instead they choose to make stuff up :))

Batih was a nice victory written outrageously funny on Wikipedia. Poor Poles, they like to reduce their forces numbers as they lose (15,000 in place of 30,000). Haha. I wasn't talking about defeats of Polish army at Ukrainian hands, but was mentioning times when we were helping you out, Sokrates.

Who gives a flying fcuk about the 1600's.

Looks like some do, because siege of Vienna is being mentioned with lying overtone. :)

P.S. I never said that Lithuanians were sunbathing when Cossacks fought. They fought together, side by side. All I am saying that pinpointing one nation in the multinational battles where that nation had lesser amount of army and chicken-winged hussars is not right.
Sokrates 8 | 3,346  
18 Jun 2009 /  #239
Batih was a nice victory written outrageously funny on Wikipedia.

It was also your only major victory against regular Polish forces :)))

Poles, they like to reduce their forces numbers as they lose.

Whats to reduce? We know from multiple sources including a German Jesuit exactly how many soldiers Poles had: 9000 national cavalry, 3000 outlanders autorament cavalry and approximately 3000 infantry.

I wasn't talking about defeats of Polish army at Ukrainian hands,

There was just this one defeat Nathan, you also won two battles against our militias, every single other battle fought against regular Polish military throught history ended in a disaster for you :))))

but was mentioning times when we were helping you out, Sokrates.

Ahhh so finally we get to the point! Yes Nathan you were helping us and you did a very good job too but you never "saved us" :)

And you say Poland saved Europe, but when I said that Cossacks saved Commonwealth at Khotyn where Ukrainian made half of the total force and major attacking one, you say I am programed. Haha. Polish mentality, nothing else ;)

That would be because Poles single handedly routed the bulk of Turkish forces at Vienna while Cossacks didnt contribute anything special at Chocim, the only thing you did was waste 4000 of your best cavalry against Polish orders which of course got your men massacred.

As you see Ukrainians were half of the total army force.

Thats wiki for you :)) It conveniently ignores facts that Poles called their heavy and light lancer cavalry Cossacks but these were regular Commonwealth units and "Cossacks" was a military jargon of the time, the actuall Ukrainian Cossack forces never exceeded 15.000-20.000 and except for your idiotic suicidal charge you were busy building a camp while Poles defended the position :)))
Bratwurst Boy 9 | 10,525  
18 Jun 2009 /  #240
You are saying that you saved the Europe whereas in the battle at Vienna the following army forces were present:

I tried to point out that little facts already...they forgot about it immediately again! *shrugs*

Not to mention the brave viennese citizens! Without their long heroic resistance to the cruel turkish siege all these forces whould had come for nought.

But noooo....it's all only the Poles doing!

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