What if scenario´s for WW2 and Poland

Fourteen years of economic crisis, political violence, whipping up unjustified hatred towards minorities and capitalising on the paranoia and prejudice of the uneducated had a lot to do with it.

He had an intellectual ability since he had brain, this no one can doubt I hope, but what kind of vision (I don't think you mean he had eyes and could see trees around) worth to be called a "vision" Hitler had. He had an enormous charisma and fantastic public speaking skills, he was a great politician - absolutely. But I see no vision in full sane meaning of this word.

The plan was not found and we don't know what was in the plan. The plan had to be there, anyhow. I don't believe Nazi made all these moves and invasions without thinking where it will all end. If the Soviets had 5-year plans to be accomplished in 3 years ;), I am not gonna believe Germans (people who invented "Ordnung" :) didn't have one too.


You never know, because 1% of mortal men who are bastards are usually ahead of others in corruption and 99% will never be tested for integrity in politics. Politics doesn't cherish happy, honest bunnies who want the best for all. Such people don't survive for long.

joepilsudski

Amateur in both conception and execution and disurbingly sentimental. Sub-chocolatebox drawing. Not an artist. Then again he loved the works of Lehar and for long periods subsisted on cream cakes.

A creepy, paranoid guy. Such pictures are better left to gather dust.

The guy who painted this was purely a hobbyist, who painted what was around him, to relax. He never had any aspirations to be a professional artist. Or to conquer the world and kill millions.



And the difference in styles says a lot.

You call them German lands ?

Grzegorz_

Probably because they were...

No, they weren't. Joe was talking about...


...and those "German" lands were the very same that Prussia stole
from Poland in the barbaric, bandit act of partitions.

It wasn't as barbaric as Poland's disgraceful and heart-wrenching invasion of Ruthenian territories and burning my beloved city L'viv in 1340 and 1349. You may call Kazimierz lll a bandit as he definately was. But some still dare audaciously to call these territories "lost Polish" lands. RP became too fat in grabbing foreign lands such that a light unloading was essential for the country's well-being. Partitions should be called "Friendly Release" or "Assisted Relaxations" ;)

Oh, well - medieval times, medieval customs and manners. Tough times they were.


Hmm... since they were ours for about 500 years :) Since we brought civilization
and culture to those lands. I mean - have some feckin gratitude, Nathan ;)


I was thinking about the most suitable and eloquent response to that,
but all I could think of was: F*uck You! ;)

Policy of religious, cultural and lingual destruction of another nation can be hardly called "civiliation and culture". Same thing the Spaniards said when they destroyed the culture of Maya and Aztec.


It couldn't be more eloquent ;) Greatly appreciated :)This response gave me more satisfaction than I would get from a page-long explanations :)

Comparing us to Spaniards slaughtering Mayas and Aztecs?
That's just exaggeration, unfairness and a little bit of hysteria.
Come on - it wasn't that bad.


LOL You wind-up merchant, you! Check your PM box, Nat.

First of all Nathan your elites welcomed us with open arms, second we burned only a part of the town because Lwów became a city and a Polish heartland under Polish management, we built the vast majority of what is today Lwów, when you had it it was just a keep and a small town around it.


Given that he defended your people from Tartar raids that your local rulers were completely unable to repell i'm sure he was a horrible man.

He built schools, introducted laws that prevented your nobles from monopolising food trade and thus stopped shortages among lower class citizens, he introduced literacy, engineering and medical sciences to an otherwise backwards region and unlike you your nobles loved it.

A hundred years later more then 2/3rds of Ruthenian nobles spoke Polish and Latin, most of them were Catholic and ardent supporters of the Polish Commonwealth, if we were such evil bandits why did you elites support us so?


Which ones? While i agree that Wrocław and most of Lower Silesia is much more Germanic (its a mix of Austria and Germany) then Polish through history many of the lands were either directly Polish or under Polish rule before the partitions and fully deserve the term "recovered".


Your people have been raped by Tartars, Muscovites and everyone and their brother, when Poles came we built cities, fortresses, we brought armies that put a stop to Ruthenians being everyone's *****, we brought you all the advancements of the Western cultures, protection and peace, all of which you were apparently unable to attain on your own.

Besides Nathan while immoral and unethical going "Spanish" on your sorry asses could have saved us a lot of trouble so be grateful we are not like Spanish and the Aztecs:)

The raids that you were afraid of in the 1600s and tried to subdue Cossacks who were liberating their co-patriots from the enslavement and defending their lands by kicking Turkish asses in the Black sea?


Cheap sell-outs received what they wanted too. I don't see what schools you mean and what literacy. Maybe, in Warsaw or Krakiw.

As far as i recall we've repelled all major raids which your great Cossacks could not do by themselves, you know not having a proper military and all.

As for Turks, the only time Cossacks "kicked" them was when they were auxillary troops in the Polish army:)


So your entire elite was a cheap sellout? Why did all Ruthenian nobles turned to Poland? It doesnt bode well for a people if their entire elite so willingly accepts someone elses rule, no pride perhaps? Acceptance of Polish superiority?:)))))

As for schools we built them allright, Lwow is one example:)

Yeh, you fought Turks ;) - you sucked their d*cks!!!



Your army was kicked ass big time in Cecora, but a year later at Khotyn:


This is called "auxilliary"? :) This is called Ukrainians were major military force at Khotyn, where casualties of Turks were huge compared to the allied army.


A minute ago you were claiming 2/3rds ;) What else will you suck up from the thumb?


What schools?

Oh cummon guys....I got tired about these eternal discussions like to whom belongs the land, who build what, whose oppression was nicer and so on.

How about we call it a day? ;)

It keeps us alive, BB, don't you understand?


Only if you insist. I think the armies are exhausted and a night horn's sound is like a soothing lulliby.
(#Nathan sees his enemy waving white flag and Sokrates is sent as a messenger to deliver the enemy's banner. Nathan calmly smiles at Sokrates and they together go for a nice round of beer. The defeat is accepted ;)

A beer is on the house before it get's home to our women..

What you mean those two dudes and an old donkey who made it there after we did all the fighting?:D


Hell no, there's nothing as fun as baiting Nathan.

I accidentally bumped into this thread, without real intention to take part, just have a look. I spotted this map and I jumped at an idea.

Unsatisfied with the distribution of influence in Europe and the world, Germans started WW1 in the West and in result lost these territiories in the East:



They still kept this.



Then, frustrated by WW1 outcome, Germans started WW2. This time they were wiser, they began in the East first, but the result was as deplorable as before - they lost even more land.



What was wrong with Germans? I consider them intelligent, down-to-earth, rational, practical people, the nation of great inventors (Roentgen, Benz, Daimler, Mercedes) and composers (Wagner, Schubert, Valkyrie) etc. What pushed them into such a folly, twice?

And it seems that it was Poland which deprived Germans of the most part of this lost land?

Now a serious question.

Do Germans hold a grudge against Poles for losing so much land to Poland? (it doesn`t matter that most of this land belonged to Poland before. Land is land. )

I'm just not in the mood...today...

I am sorry for asking tiresome questions........ :):):):):):):)

OK, Ok, I know. Most Germans don`t hold a grudge, they accepted the reality as it is, they forgot their lost lands, just like Poles forgot their lost territiories in the East.

There is balance in nature, after all. Everybody forgets everything.

They still occupy a lot of Slavic lands... Lusatia and all...

What can be done about it?

Grzegorz_

Groggie drinks to much together with Crowie...

I am sorry, I forgot to post one more map:

We should start marching west, stop at Elbe River and let them keep true Germanic lands; after all we’re not that greedy.

And let Poniatowski drown in the Elbe again?
No way!!! We need all Polish heroes! Alive, here in Poland.

Heh:)

upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/Europa_Germanen_50_n_Chr.svg

If we go after that you wouldn't even be here...;)