Poland-Russia: never-ending story?

I think that you have not proper knowledge to judge anybody.


For all kind of social revolutionaries it was always very easy to announce the end of Christianity. What they always failed is to propose realistic alternative. I have no intention to play the role of laboratory rat in their new social experiments. Their utopias already caused death of too many people.

moreorless.au.com/killers/stalin.html

But I can judge for myself and to express my decision. By the way, I had no intention to judge somebody, but organisation, and in contrast to private persons, the organisation always presents on the field of presumption of guilt.


Are you sincerely believer?

heroes & killers of the 20th century

Have you read the numbers that were killed? Do you really want to use the church to hide behind?

Your alternative vision somehow depends from my answer to this question?

Nowbody in Russia idealizes the personality of these statemen, but in the same time all of us realise that their existance was necessary for Russian state. I find that comment very intelligent.

Because sometimes even things that are bad in the end can do some good(rarely). Example Kaczynski was always starting fights in EU. But now countries of EU are much more appreciative of people like Tusk and willing to work with him so kaczynski doesn't get voted back. I know It also has to do Tusks approach but its a combination of both things. I have other more extreme examples if need be.

I am not an expert on Russia so I can't talk about anything prior to WW2. I leave that to others. However what Stalin did was not for the future good because in the end the economy of SU collapsed, setting you back 20 years. He advanced a worthless cause. He killed millions and nothing good came out of it.

What reorganisation? A gravitation toward a totalitarian and despotic regime? A tradition of 'might makes right' foreign policy? Fear and terror in its citizens? Lack of free thought or progressive political discourse? The cult of the leader? Wow, what a legacy. That's why when one thinks of political utopia and social justice the name Russia is produced as a trump to any other nation.

And yes, I do contend he was a maniac. The cost/benefit equation when one considers Ivan the T is not much benefit at all, unless of course you see my above propositions as being beneficial.

Without Ivan T there would be now Tatarstan in european teritorry.

Doubtful. Tatars were a spent force at this stage in terms of their nation toppling/building clout. What happened to all the other khanates. They simply faded away, with a bit of prodding.

Anyway, would a hypothetical "Tatarstan" have been all that bad? Look at the actual alternative.

It would be bad.I do not know how a polish rule would be.Russians offered something to civilization.

It poses an interesting question though doesnt it. I think it's a bit dismissive to suggest that the Tatars wouldnt have offered anything to civilisation though. Why would it have been bad?


Depends where you're from really as to whether this is correct.

Russians had so many writers,poets,painters,they have produced some unique art.And they have the slavic spirit alive.

en.rian.ru/russia/20080121/97471816.html

I hope he won't mention Stalin ;)

lol You have to say that our new gov is much more proffesional ... ;)

Stalin who cares about him ... we live in present time

Poland rather not endure quickly veto against Russia

So tell us both a source in the Foreign Ministry , as well as people from government circles , shaping European policy . Anyway - we are told - conductive EU Slovenia insisted on Poland to this agreed to abolish the veto , because she wanted to start negotiations with Moscow during his presidency ...

we will see

Pres. Putin's recent push to have Stalin in Russian childrens history books as a "great hero", makes me care, for one.

He should have presented him as a gay.

Or the truth a "cold blooded serial killer" of the worst kind.

Katyn is officaly nomminated to OSCAR so the truth you want will be available for people form all over the world :)

I want the whole truth, the reserve family's from eastern Poland included.

small steps ... ;) firstly we need to show that we havent been liberated by Soviets (Russians) but occupated ... and that durring WWII Russians were German allies 39-41 ... and that Russians were the same murders as Germans ... everything is in our movie Katyń.

I have not seen the movie yet, but can't wait.

Has the movie been released? If not, when?

I have seen it 3 months ago ... in Poland

There is nice info ...

Russians can change their mind in case of Nord Stream (gas pipeline throught baltic sea) and build it through Poland ... I think that it would be great business for both Poland and Russia. Poland would feel safe and Russia would have chiper transit becase costs of Nord stream increasea and increase and now it is 3-4 times more expenisve than project realizated through Poland ;) and our new government is able to find compromises with Russia ...

Germans are less doubtfull and more compliant

Well, former Soviet Republics see it as a liberation, the rest of the world see it as occupation, so I personally think, it won't change much.

Liberation my a**. What Stalin didn't kill he slaved, then he silenced communist Poland, any military were exiled vs. being killed as "enemies of the state". Stalin took over Poland, even the under ground top brass that reported to Stalins meeting, were killed. There is no way to make this pretty, people were killed and used just as Stalin used his own. And this my dear is history.

to quote a workers hero,"my arse". Try telling the latvians/estonians etc etc it was "liberation......

Paczka you must be a historian. lol
Yes you liberate by killing your own people. Great analysis.
Celinski and Isthatu said it best so no reason for me to add anything.
I guess the reason for this post is to express my laughter at your comment.

It was direct imposition Paczka, liberation actually frees u from sth, not strips u of it