Poland: we have an interesting history.

you're also off your rocker.. now go check the facts and then come back and fix your post. haha

kluszyn

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwa_pod_Kłuszynem

Samosierra

pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwa_pod_Somosierrą

or maybe precise where I have done mistakes ... (I will check tomorow) good night and good luck

exactly :)

We don`t wish to see that some American Poles speaks to their children about ancient American history when Polish history is much more interesting. After all, there is no ancient American history, except of course ancient native american history

With same problem is faced Serbian diaspora. ;)

good night

vodka, poland is not the reason for russian collapse.. Brzezinski and al qaeda? come on now.. :D :D :D

972 BAttle of Cedynia ( a Slavic settlement)

Mieszko I defeated margrave Hodo.
After WW2 Cedynia returned to Poland.

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1015 Battle of Krosno Odrzanskie
Forces of the German Emperor Henry II defeated by Chrobry's son Mieszko. Chrobry was a prince at the time, later to become the frst Polish king

1015 Battle of Budziszyn
Polish forces lead by Chrobry slaughter German army lead by Henry II.

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1109 Defense of Glogow
Successful defense of the City by Polish forces against joined Germa and Czech forces, despite the fact that Germans used human shields (Polish hostages).

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Battle of Grunwald 1410
One of the greatest battles of the Middle Ages.
Polis-Lithuanian Union won over Teutonic Knights and their Western European mercenaries.

Battle of Koronow 1410
2000 Poles against 4000 Teutonic knights and.
Casualties: 1000 Germans killed. "Insignificant" number of Poles killed.

Battle of Wilkomierz 1435
Polish-Lithuanian forces defeat Teutonic knights who were helped by Russians

Thirteen Year War 1454-1466
Final stages of the conflict between Teutonic Knights and Poland. Poland victorious. The beginning of Polan'd golden age.

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Kazimierz Pułaski (Casimir Pulaski) - Father of the American Cavalry

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Battle of Westerplatte (Poles were defeated):

Germans forces:

approx 3400 soldiers
Battleship Schleswig-Holstein
Two torpedo boats (T-963 and Von der Groeben)
Several heavy armoured cars
About 65 artillery pieces
Numerous mortars
Over 150 machine guns and several flamethrowers.

40 Junkers and 87 dive bombers
Seven other aircraft

Polish forces

182 soldiers
Three artillery pieces
Four Stokes 81 mm wz. 31 mortars
41 machine guns, including 16 heavy machine guns.

Aftermath:
The battle lasted 7 days.
Germans: est. 200 to 400 killed
Poles: 15-20 killed and 53 wounded

Nice piece mate. I also think it's important we dont forget that a lot of achievements were made in conjunction with Poland's Lithuanian partners. Wiwat to them.

I think it would be a nice and inclusive gesture to cite some of the battles where Polish Jews made a valuable contribution. I'm thinking of their contributions toward the defence of Warsaw during the Kosciuszko Insurrections (to name one). Wiwat to them too.

To that list we could add the battle of Orsza (early 16C). Another fine example of Polish military prowess over the Muscovites.

I'll have to pull out the old Davies, Lukowski and Zamoyski books to see if I can add any more.


Why not? I will certainly be exposing my son to Australian history as well as Polish history.

Cheers Dan

As to Poles and Jews some people say that we have syndrome of betrayed lovers. ;) And Jews talk only about bad Poles and Poles only about bad Jews, both sides claim that there were no mixes, no asimilation and that other side was traitor, but if you really want to hear sth positive about contribution made by Polish Jews into our history. Some Jews participated in our up-rises, some helped us in war against Soviets in 1920 (as volountiers in Pilsudskis Legions) and some were true Polish patriots. The bigest spread of "Love between Jews and Poles" occured in 1860-1862 (January up-rise) when Poland was occupated by Russia ,Austria and Germany. Jews and Poles wanted to be treated equal (Occupators used differences between Poles and Jews to make us weaker as whole) and decided to fight agains Russians, action and cooperation brought asimilation (some Polish and Jewish fractions really wanted it) and we had a lot of beautiful love affairs between Jews and Poles. Unfortunately Russians won. Genraly January up-rising was very characteristic : peasants maried nobels, Jews Poles and so on. Very interesting chapter in our history.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. Your whole paragraph is an excellent analysis. Thanks. Maybe it won't be a bad year after all.

What on earth has that photo to do with anything?

forbidden Love ;)

What I want to add Up-rising started in 1863 but whole process in our society started in 1860.


thanks
later I will add some links to interesting articles about this issue :)


one of the reasons :) but I think there is separate thread about Brzezinski

Clever! Hadn't thought of that! :)

actually they were not totally christian. ottomans were taking the healtiest sons of non-muslim families (if a family has only one son they were not taking him) and bring to istanbul. then they were giving them education about fighting, science and religion etc. clever and talented ones were going to be important men in empire management, strong ones to special jenissary units and others to other jobs in the palace. even there were ones between them who managed ottoman empire by being more effective than the ruler. but they were brought up as muslims since they were taken from their families so not christian warriors (of course we can't know how they feel inside, at least outer part muslim). it's said that they were shaving their heads but leaving some long hair on top, to make their heads carry easier to their graves if it cuts off from the body in the war :p

thats why I " " the word. :)

Not to me.

1. Thousands of people were forced to settle in Siberia, killed or injured.
2. Poland lost the rest of remaining autonomy within Russian Empire.
3. The country was destroyed and robbed by the Russian forces.
4. Nation's elite was killed or forced to immigrate.

Etc.

All of the above apply to virtually each Polish uprising or insurrection.

According to universal rules of propaganda:

- If you want winner mentality to be achieved then remind to the average people only victories.

- If you wish bad to them then spread defeatism

Where do you want to stand?

I would rather stick to the facts instead of myths and propaganda.

If so, you need to include also numerous successes to your list.

A lot of defeats (or "moral" victories) too!

Anyway, I believe that a Pole who knows more about Kirchom or Kluszyn than Lutosławski or Jozef Korzeniowki would never understand the essense of the 'interestingness' of his country's history (and it is not only about the 'cultural' thing!)

Jaunary up-rising and October uprisng occured partly because Russians wanted to use Poles in their wars. Poles prefered to die in war against Russians than strenghten them. I think it should be noticed as well.

It is widely known as the battle of Tannenberg as the Germans called it to take revenge in 1914.One of the Teuton knights who fell in this battle was called Hindenburg.

How is possible that Russians (precisely- Russian elite) that greatly mistake in central Europe?! Why they oppressed Poles? Why wanted to control Poland instead to consider Poles as partners?

When started problems between Poles and Russians and who is responsible? Anyone?

The Russians had no real intention to suppress Poles.Occupation of part of polish land was meant for security reasons in order to prevent attack of Germans.


Basically they started in 15th centrury when the Russians tried to become independant and keep the orthodox tradition while Poles were inspired by Popes to crusades to the East.Lithuanians became catholics by polish influence but Russians were already orthodox and refused to change.

Of course the real crusaders were a little more west with the appearance of Teuton knights who tried to expand german territory to Baltics and former Poland.

So in 1410 Russians,Poles,Czechs and Lithuanians having realized the threat which Germans represented allied and crushed the Teuton knights in the famous battle of Tannenberg which Germans have never forgotten.

Russians ? no way ! only about 400 Russians particpated in this battle, Lithuenians retreated at the begining, there were some Czech soldiers of fortune (on both sides), but generaly this battle was between Poles and Germans


Russians tshar came to Krakow and asked our King for help, he wasnt interested so Tshar converted into catholic and was looking for support, finaly he found it (some nobels form north east of RP) and Poles helped him to take moscov and throne , later it changed in war between Russians na Poles. and we had taken Moscov again. there is better description there (Russians participate in it)

Generaly most of Russians wanted to have the same laws as Poles and it was very close Russia would be another Lithuenia in our Common Wealth (BTW independent Lithuenians celebrate togheter with us 3rd may constitution so we were ok )

https://polishforums.com/archives/2005-2009/history/poland-russia-ending-story-11550/20/

some Polish historicians claim that union with Lithueanians was mistake because mainly they provoked conflicts with Russia instead of that we could "finish" Germans they were on knees ... and continue our "come back" on west.

Generaly reason of our strenghtness in XVI ventury (we had the bigest military power in Europe) came from our model, Ukrainians Lithuenians wanted to join us because our citizens had more laws so Russians wated the same "if Polish lords give us more laws than our ... so we should support them" ... it can be compared to what USA have been doing in last century (to times of Iraq)

The Russians were the ones who fought toucher than everyone.They caused the admiration of the Teuton knights due to their bravery.They managed to hold the center of the allies when the german attack created danger of collapse.The Lithuanians run away when the Teutons attacked but came back after personal interference of polish king.

yes, when we look on number of their soldiers they did sth but 400 is 400 and they were form Smolensk which was part of Lithuenia ... troops form Russian country were in Russia...


some came back but some retreated to Lithuenia (?!?) and in their way home were tellin stories about great defeat.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grunwald


Germans had never forgotten about this defeat, and they claim that in 1914 they had taken revange on "slavs"

While the second battle of Tannenberg(this of 1914) took in reality place in Glogau,near Tannenberg.The Germans called it deliberately battle of Tannenberg to take revenge in the same ground of their defeat.

t was a matter of honour for Hindenburg whose remote relative had died in the battle of 1410.

I understand your message (answer to so many posts in this and other topics sugesting sth for us), we understand that we are not super power. Majority of Poles understand it and what is important or PM Tusk understands it. EU is club of lost super powers/empires, that is why it has been established.

Maybe we need to say sth about how we behaved when we had "super power". What kind of system we had. It is very important we had created our commonwealth using positive power.

I think the most popular source on this forum Wikipedia ;)



Green are orthodox (other names are simlar to english)

we have to say sth about arians (do not connect to WWII) Polish pacifists (?!?) in XVI century ;)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_brethren

"The movement started around 1562 and ended with the expulsion of Arians from Poland in 1658. The Brethren never participated in the Sandomierz Agreement between different Polish Protestants. The Polish Brethren advocated the separation of church and state and taught the equality and brotherhood of all people; they opposed social privileges based on religious affiliation, and their adherents refused military service (they were known for carrying wooden swords instead of real almost obligatory szablas) and declined political office. They did not believe in private property, were against capital punishment, and did not believe in the traditional Christian doctrines of Hell or the Trinity."

And here is the answer how we ended with 95% of Catholics at the end ;)

" The Deluge in which protestant Sweden invaded Poland, since they (as almost all non-Catholics) were commonly seen as Swedish collaborators. This expulsion is sometimes taken as the beginning of decline of famous Polish religious freedom, although the decline started earlier and ended later: the last non-Catholic deputy was removed from parliament in the beginning of the 18th century. Most of Polish Brethren moved to the Netherlands, where they greatly influenced European opinion, becoming precursors to Enlightenment. Through their connection to Enlightenment thinkers, their ideas also influenced the Founding Fathers of the United States."

I've just noticed some analogies to other religious groups in our history ... hmmmm... maybe we should think about it.

…and surely this is the point where something went wrong with an otherwise very modern system: the worm in a perfect apple. Had it not been for the Liberum Veto Polish history would have probably been totally different and much happier, don’t you think?

Yes. It is an obvious fact, it is taught in Polish schools. At least it was when I lived there.

Liberum Veto lead to Poland's effective self-anihilation. It was probably the biggest mistake in Polish politics (other than not killing off all Teutons, or helping Vienna so soon)

How come such an idea was brought into being? Whose idea was it?

liberum veto in bad meaning of this word occured in second part of XVII century. That is why we call XVI century Golden ;)

"It is commonly, and erroneously, believed that a Sejm was first disrupted by means of liberum veto by a Trakai deputy, Władysław Siciński, in 1652. In reality, however, he only vetoed the continuation of the Sejm's deliberations beyond the statutory time limit. It was only in 1669, in Kraków, that a Sejm was prematurely disrupted on the strength of the liberum veto, by the Kiev deputy, Adam Olizar."

"In the first half of the 18th century, it became increasingly common for Sejm sessions to be broken up by liberum veto, as the Commonwealth's neighbors — chiefly Russia and Prussia — found this a useful tool to frustrate attempts at reforming and strengthening the Commonwealth"

After 1764 the liberum veto practically went out of use: the principle of unanimity did not bind "confederated sejms," and so deputies formed a "confederation" (Polish: konfederacja) at the beginning of a session in order to prevent its disruption by liberum veto.

The liberum veto was abolished by the May 3rd, 1791, Constitution (adopted by a confederated sejm), which permanently established the principle of majority rule."

but it was to late ...