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Polish Jews - they changed their Jewish surnames to Polish


Lukasz 49 | 1,746  
22 Nov 2007 /  #421
My sentiments above are also being aired by the BBC:URL

Good article thankyou, but lobby in USA or some parts of their society is not the reason to put all Jews together...
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
22 Nov 2007 /  #422
you can point them out without any doubt.

Ah yes, the types like me on this forum...Yes, we want to have the 'Hebes' clearly labelled so we can 'exterminate' them...you know me so well!...I knew that I couldn't escape or hide from the blinding light of your intellect and discernment!...I confess, I was

a fool...
But, on the subject of Jewish names, I was just expressing my amazement...for example, right here in Philadelphia PA USA, where I make my home, we have a company called COMCAST, which is the largest cable TV provider in the USA, and they also provide Internet service & every type of media/communication service imaginable...this company is owned by the Roberts family...they are multi-billionaires...now, imagine my surprise when I found out that this Roberts family were actually of Russian Jewish descent!...I was shocked because I didn't realize that Roberts was a Jewish name...I thought maybe

Robelsky or something like that...but, no Roberts is a common Jewsih name in the US...but, as you say, this is called mimicry...the Roberts family started out their empire selling cable in the state in Alabama in the southern US...now, maybe the 'Roberts' family

felt that this mimicry would help them in doing business with the residents of the state of
Alabama, who are mostly non-Jewish, or as some say, 'goyim'...or they might have felt, that being 'Hebes', they were in danger of extermination, or at least of

being 'pogrommed' by the people of Alabama if the cable service wasn't up to snuff...I don't know the answer...the 'Roberts' family are also helping to bankroll a big casino project here in Philadelphia, but we know that the US gambling syndicate is controlled by the Italian Mafia, so obviously they are just 'front men'...and in closing, let me pay homage to Paul Reubens, oh, excuse me, I mean Pee Wee Herman, who is definitely the all-time genius of children's theatre, and a wonderful role model for all children, Christian, Jewish or Muslim...and I was shocked to learn that Herman was a 'Jewish' name, also, but it seems that he was using 'mimicry'...
WAKEUPPOLAND 1 | 44  
22 Nov 2007 /  #423
I am a specialist in psychopathology, and I am deeply concerned about wakeup's condition, which is displaying all the symptoms of paranoid schizophrenia. I hope you have good doctors in Poland.

Any self-respecting professional would never offer a diagnosis based on a few posts on the internet. Not even a mechanic will give you a diagnosis without seeing the car; but you were so quick to diagnose me that I have to question whether you really are a psychopathologist.

Or Maybe you would like to think you are a psychopathologist ? Or maybe one side of you thinks you are a psychopathologist ? Or maybe you are simply a psycho ?
biglarry - | 13  
22 Nov 2007 /  #424
WAKY, WAKY,

I prefer to do it this way.

Hey, I'm no expert on physics, but you must be. The physicists are certainly gonna change their mind because of Bjerknes and a few other nutcases just like the historians changed their mind because of David Irving regarding the Holocaust. You also have a book for us from The Flat Earth Society or the Creationists challenging the theory of evolution?

Here's a review of Bjerknes's book for those on this forum whose mind has not totally gone astray:

physicsworld.com/cws/article/print/17201

WAKY, WAKY,

I may not be as self-respecting as you, but I AM a professional. My diagnosis was a provisional one, based on the clearly expressed symptom of anti-Semitism. If you don't believe me, consult a psychiatrist or clinical psychologist where you are. And yes, a car problem can be provisionally diagnosed too by an experienced mechanic just by the description of the engine sound, smoke color, and fluids on the ground.

It is an established position in the field that racism (which includes anti-Semitism) is a form of mental illness because it represents a delusional disorder. Anyone that feels that Jews (or blacks, or Moslems, etc) are responsible for most problems in the world or their own communities exhibits a delusion which fits into the American Psychiatric Association category of delusional disorder, persecutory type ( DSM-IV). The fixed, paranoid, and erroneous belief of many bloggers and forum participants that all Jews are evil and conspiring to control the world clearly qualifies as a delusional disorder under the DSM-IV criteria.

Rigid and categorical or stereotyped thinking are common aspects of a variety of mental disorders. So are fear and paranoia. We can easily observe these tendencies in the expressions of racists and bigots.

But, listen, maybe all of us professionals in the mental health field are wrong. Maybe racism should not be called a disease of the mind but of the heart.
WAKEUPPOLAND 1 | 44  
22 Nov 2007 /  #425
I quote you BBC news (independent and fair minded??), and you quote me an article written by:

John Stachel, director of the Center for Einstein Studies at Boston University, US, e-mail stachel@buphy.bu.edu.

Well there's 2 sides to every coin, as there are 2 sides to every story, and I have diagnosed that you have 2 sides to your personality. One side is arrogant and the other is very sheepish.

You also have a book for us from The Flat Earth Society or the Creationists challenging the theory of evolution?

Well think about it...if i came to you and told you the earth was round 600 years ago then you would have accused me of coming from the "Round Earth Society".

By the way do you also believe that Columbus discovered the earth was round ? (Same way that Einstein 'discovered' Theory of Relativity ?
Wroclaw 44 | 5,387  
22 Nov 2007 /  #426
It is an established position in the field that racism (which includes anti-Semitism) is a form of mental illness because it represents a delusional disorder.

You learn something every day. When did this, PC, fashion come into being.
biglarry - | 13  
22 Nov 2007 /  #427
PILSUDSKI,

Your replies are growing increasingly incoherent. I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. You seem to be unhealthily interested in Jewish names and seem to be displaying a delusion that if only Jews didn't hide behind Anglo, Polish, etc. names, their control would be loosened. See my reply to Wakeup about delusional disorders.

As for Pee Wee, let me repeat my previous claim that it doesn't matter what he calls himself or what his real name is. What is important is the fact that for a while, he was deservedly a big hit with kids and the critics of the entertainment industry. To masturbate in a darkened movie theater was foolish, and he's paid a heavy price, but for me and so many others, it's not a mortal sin. Look in the Bible. Does it say anywhere that you're going to hell for masturbating? However, I think the Bible might mention in a few places that you should love and forgive thy neighbor, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

I never claimed that Pee Wee was a good role model. He was a TV and movie character, who very rarely appeared as Paul Reubens. The world of entertainment or any other field is full of professionals who could do their job admirably but were not so admirable as private persons. Still, we judge their work separately from their private persona. Stravinsky was a musical genius, but he liked Mussolini and was an anti-Semite. Does that change my opinion of his compositional skills? Of course not - I can still enjoy his music, but I am disappointed in Stravinsky the man.
WAKEUPPOLAND 1 | 44  
22 Nov 2007 /  #428
racism (which includes anti-Semitism) is a form of mental illness

You sound more like a witch doctor!!! Maybe i am posessed by the devil and i should be locked up. I forgot, its your fileld or 'science' which adopted Electro Shock Therapy as a good treatment for dealing with mental illneses. What happened to the theories behind that good idea ?

Anyway back to the topic:

anti-Semitism.

I am Anti-Zionist.

You learn something every day. When did this, PC, fashion come into being.

It is new for me too...But I am not surprised. Anything to lock up anyone who dares speak against Zionists.

I think the Bible might mention in a few places that you should love and forgive thy neighbor, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

Tell that to Israeli's occupying Palestine....

I think the Bible might mention in a few places that you should love and forgive thy neighbor, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

I forgive you BigLARRY, I really do.

You cannot add fuel to the debate so you have started psychoANALyzing the forum, but you know what.

I forgive you my blind sheep!!!
biglarry - | 13  
22 Nov 2007 /  #429
WROCLAW

It all started with a book you might have heard of - the Bible - written by Jewish apostles! And a Jewish guy named Jesus, who preached love and tolerance among all men. Little did they know that they would be accused of unfashionable political correctness 2,000 later.

A lot of Polish Catholics on this forum remind me of the saying about a girl who wanted to be screwed without penetration. Your version of Christianity certainly doesn't square with that of the Bible. You can't profess yourself to be good Catholics and to harbour anti-Jewish or anti-any nationality feelings, especially after the Papal 1965 Nostra Aetate proclamation that Jews are not responsible for the death of Christ and that their descendants are even less so. If you don't agree with that proclamation or with the Bible teachings, be a brave representative of your convictions and say that you disagree with them, that you agree with Hitler, Goering, Goebbels, Himmler, Stalin, and Bin Laden. If you say that you are a good Catholic despite being a racist, then you have no idea about the basic values of the Judeo-Christian culture you live in and you are a hypocrite.

WAKY, WAKY,

The only weapon we have against unreason and delusions is reason and its most potent arm - science. I do psychoanalyze patients for a living, and it often works. It seems to me most of Poland has long been ready for a collective therapy.
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
22 Nov 2007 /  #430
If you like Jews or hate them is here irrelevant. :) The main point is to watch your words whenever you talk about this "nation" as very easyli you can be labeled anti-semite, no mater if you actually are one yourself or not. Even Steven Spielberg was called anti-semite after directing "Munich", and he's Jewish ffs... :)

However, I think the Bible might mention in a few places that you should love and forgive thy neighbor, meaning all the inhabitants of the planet.

Yes, love and forgive thy neighbor, but don't spray him with thy seed in a darkened movie theater. :))

Sorry biglarry, I couldn't help it. :)
biglarry - | 13  
22 Nov 2007 /  #431
WAKY,

Anti-Zionism and self-professed love for the Palestinians are an old fig-leaf of modern anti-Semites. You don't fool me with that. You don't give a **** about the Palestinians - they're just a convenient stick to beat Jews on the head with so as to assuage your own guilt about your own anti-Semitism. In a way, you're displaying your ideological camp's defeat because bigotry is not an officially cherished virtue in the modern value system of the West the way it used to be, so you can't quite come out and say that you are anti-Jewish.

But, I guess that's why Poland is where it is today and why the Western Europe and America are where they are.

Matijasz,

Doesn't bother me. I'm not hung up on bodily functions like some of the forum are. If that is Pee Wee's only sin, I'm pretty sure his place in Heaven is secure. I'm not so sure about 90% of the participants here.

Matyjasz

Let's not play at semantics. And how can it be irrelevant whether you like or hate Jews? A lot of Americans think that Polish Americans are not very bright, and there is even a host of Polish jokes on the subject. Is that irrelevant to you? Even though I may laugh at some of the jokes, I know that it's a stereotype which doesn't have much basis in reality.

Anyone who would accuse Spielberg of being anti-Semitic is a pinhead. Very few might have. Are we going to change our view of reality or lose touch with it because of that?
Matyjasz 2 | 1,544  
22 Nov 2007 /  #432
But, I guess that's why Poland is where it is today and why the Western Europe and America are where they are.

Yeah, serves them right! Anti-semite bastards. ;)

As for the Israel-Palestinian conflict, do you think that the actions that were being taken by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people, were right? (you know, the whole check-points, the wall, police hours, etc things) What is your stance regarding this issue?

And how can it be irrelevant whether you like or hate Jews?

Personally I don't have anything against Jews, but lets face it, if I would criticize Israel's actions against the Palestinian nation in public, I'm 100% sure that I would be labeled anti-semite. That's why it's irrelevant whether you like Jews or not. The main thing is to say only positive things about this "nation".

A lot of Americans think that Polish Americans are not very bright, and there is even a host of Polish jokes on the subject.

Imagine a Jewish stand-up comedian telling jokes about dumb pollacks. Nothing extraordinary or xenophobic to it, innit? Now imagine the same situation, but replace a jewish stand-up comedian with a Polish one, and polack jokes with jokes about Jews. Anti-semitism at it's best, innit? :)
BubbaWoo 33 | 3,510  
22 Nov 2007 /  #433
As for the Israel-Palestinian conflict, do you think that the actions that were being taken by the Israeli government against the Palestinian people, were right?

absolutely outragous
biglarry - | 13  
22 Nov 2007 /  #434
Matyjasz

Well, sometimes you reap what you sow. And it was you that used the word 'bastards', not me.

I do not agree with the Israeli government's harsh policies towards Palestinian civilians and neither do many Israelis or non-Israeli Jews. I believe it was a major historical mistake for the Jews to go back to Palestine and live in the sea of natural enemies. However, let us not forget that the Palestinians and Arab governments in general have never "missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity" in their own dealings with the Israelis. Arafat had a unique chance to close an extremely favorable peace deal with Ehud Barak and Bill Clinton, which would've led to the creation of the Palestinian state, but he chickened out because he was afraid that the hardliners in his own government would assassinate him for making peace with what they considered their mortal enemy.

Still, the main difference between Israelis and Arabs today is that Israelis would be perfectly willing to consider Arabs as equal human beings and partners worthy of respect if the Arabs showed an inkling of desire for cooperation. The Arab governments don't want to do it because the open Palestinian question serves as a release valve for the pent-up political and economic tensions in their own societies. Also, the expressions of Arab anti-Semitism in official newspapers have reached such a frenzy and have been cultivated for so long that most Arabs in the street think of Jews as subhuman. I am submitting an article from the best-known Egyptian daily, Al Akhbar. Remember, this is Egypt, with which Israel has a long-standing peace accord:

memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP37502

Matyjasz

Here's the situation with Polish jokes. No American stand-up comedian will tell Polish jokes in public or jokes about any other nationality other than his own. That's simply not accepted. Now, Jewish comedians are allowed to tell jokes about Jews, Polish about Poles, and so on down the line. It's a convention that serves everybody's sensibilities well. However, privately, people will tell jokes about various nationalities regardless. It's always been like that, and it always will be. Something tells me that Jewish jokes (especially those of the Auschwitz type) are much more cruel than the Polish ones. I can asure you that the Poles are very rarely the butt of a joke these days.

I also qualified my statement that the prejudice against Poles is a stereotype. I have yet to hear an equivalent sentiment about prejudice towards Jews from you or others in this forum.

I never claimed that Pee Wee was a good role model.

Symptomatically, everyone jumped on Pee Wee for masturbating but no one on Stravinsky for loving Mussolini. Doesn't that speak volumes about this forum participants?

Nobody's had the guts to tackle this either. Most of the responses dance around the margins (the lunatic fringe?) but never take the important issues raised head-on.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
22 Nov 2007 /  #435
Gday Larry,

Ive read your posts with some interest and lately some alarm. As to your challenge thrown down to agree that prejudices against the Jews are stereotypical, I do agree. I have many WW2 stories from my Polish dad re his experiences with the Jews, and none were told with more warmth than the day he witnessed a Jewish doctor being flanked by a ring of protective Wehrmacht soldiers (one of whom the Dr saved) when the SS came for the good Dr one day in Warsaw; or of sadness when he told me of his friend, a young Jewish boy, whose black hair turned grey after he was lined up against a wall for mock execution. My father is not Jewish. He also had some bad things to say which I won't repeat. Potentially inflammatory words mean little when the person who says them does so in the faceless comfort of a chair behind a computer screen.

As to your suggestion that the forum participants, or 99% of them, are in essence bigoted morons, or the lunatic fringe, I really must object. Saying things like that aint going to endear you to those who read it.

You see the problem you now face is that you have engaged in a metaphysical debate. There is no correct answer and no one will come to any concensus. Inflammatory words help nothing, nor do insinuations about the intellect of the forum participants, nor do purported diagnoses of psychiatric illnesses. Indeed, is it really ethical of you to hold yourself out as a mental health professional and engage in this conduct - I think not.

On a lighter note, was it really wise to put Corey Haim in with those other credible actors? ;-)

Regards, Dan
biglarry - | 13  
22 Nov 2007 /  #436
He also had some bad things to say which I won't repeat.

Bad things about Polish Jews? You have to be more specific here.
You see, my father was Jewish, and he spent 1944 and part of 45 in Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen. He was the first to admit that some German guards saved his life in the camps. However, I'm sorry to say that he didn't have any kind words for the Poles or Ukranians that he came in contact with, inmates or guards. They were invariably rabidly anti-Semitic. Now, I'm trying to strike some balance here by saying that it is a well-known fact that some Poles harbored Jews during the war and that many were not rabidly anti-Semitic but were unable to do anything. Still, the fact remains ( and this forum proves it) that anti-Semitism is a national disease in Poland. Claude Lanzman effectively proved it with SHOAH, especially in the scenes where the villagers are finally admitting that Jews bear the eternal guilt as Christ-killers and in another village, where the peasants relate the fate of their former neighbors with some glee and amusement.

As to your suggestion that the forum participants, or 99% of them, are in essence bigoted morons, or the lunatic fringe, I really must object. Saying things like that aint going to endear you to those who read it.

The purpose of my participation in any forum is not to become popular but to express my opinions and present some facts, however unpopular they may be. That's the price one has to pay sometimes. If the participants are half-way civil and informed and do not display overt bigotry, I'll treat them with kid gloves, like I'm treating you. However, if they are from the lunatic fringe, like the guy who's accusing Einstein of plagiarism or the guy who sees a sinister plot in every Jewish name, then I make no bones about using strong language and expressing contempt.

You see the problem you now face is that you have engaged in a metaphysical debate. There is no correct answer and no one will come to any concensus.

How can a debate about anti-Semitism be called metaphysical? That's one of the central problems of history and is central proof of any nation's maturity as to how it positions itself on that issue or about the mistreatment of any other minority, not just Jews. It has to do with the loss of lives of countless millions throughout history and the suffering of countless people because of irrational, prejudices, accusations and fears. And my friend, that issue is solvable and has been solved in the civilized world but not yet fully in Poland.

nor do purported diagnoses of psychiatric illnesses. Indeed, is it really ethical of you to hold yourself out as a mental health professional and engage in this conduct - I think not.

I am participating in the forum as a private individual, not as a psychopathologist. However, that doesn't prohibit me from using professional knowledge in the assessment of some of the views expressed. I do repeat that I stand behind a previous post that states that any kind of racism is a type of mental illness because it's underlying cause is persecutory delusions. That's state of the art established opinion in the field. It's always uncomfortable to hear the truth about one's psychic shortcomings because they undermine one's identity and one's good opinion of themselves, but one can always seek treatment. We don't use shock therapy any more, and we don't lock people up (I guess someone was unduly influenced by "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".).

On a lighter note, was it really wise to put Corey Haim in with those other credible actors?

As for Corey Haim, well, as I said before about Pee Wee, if that is your only undeserved entry from the lists I submitted, I'll take him out.

Nobody's had the guts to tackle this either. Most of the responses dance around the margins (the lunatic fringe?) but never take the important issues raised head-on.

This refers to my post on page 17 about Jesus, the Bible, and the Papal proclamation Nostra Aetate. I quoted it, but the moderator erased it.
Ozi Dan 26 | 569  
23 Nov 2007 /  #437
Thanks for your response Larry,

Bad things about Polish Jews? You have to be more specific here.

Perhaps "bad" is a bit harsh - I'll replace that with "negative". I gave my reason why in the sentence that followed. The upshot really is that in my opinion we can't judge the behaviours of those that did what they had to do to survive some 60 years ago. To borrow from Norman Davies, it would be unjust to transpose modern sensibilities and mores when making judgments on behaviours that occurred at a time when death, degradation and terror were the order of the day and clearly motivated the behaviours at the time.

As to metaphysics, I dont think the issue of Anti Semitism ergo Anti Polonism being a bad thing is metaphysical. What I submit as being metaphysical is the contention that Poland and Polish people are Anti Semites. Regretably, I think you have (inadvertantly I hope) fallen into it again:

And my friend, that issue is solvable and has been solved in the civilized world but not yet fully in Poland.

Sadly, what seems to be missing from the discussion is this (and this is the way I choose to honour the memory of those who fell in Poland in WW2): 6 million Polish were killed, not 3 million Polish Jews and 3 million "ethnic" Poles.

Quibbling about the ethnicity/religion of those who perished does no honour to the dead. If there existed tension and dissension in their lifetimes, surely we can attempt to be inclusive now. My apologies to any I may offend who feel that the separateness should be perpetuated even in death.

Sorry mate, but I really had to respond to this,

You see, my father was Jewish, and he spent 1944 and part of 45 in Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen. He was the first to admit that some German guards saved his life in the camps. However, I'm sorry to say that he didn't have any kind words for the Poles or Ukranians that he came in contact with, inmates or guards. They were invariably rabidly anti-Semitic.

.... Still, the fact remains ( and this forum proves it) that anti-Semitism is a national disease in Poland... (quote).

Let me start by saying my respects and admiration to your father for surviving. I'd like to know the context in which the rabid anti semitism took place. Now, I'm not saying this is your father's situation but in my life I've learnt a lot about the importance of giving the context when saying something terrible happened or is happening. For example (true story):

My dad, about 15 years ago, swore at an elderly German man, who was the father of the wife of a family friend, and ejected him from his premises - sounds bad hey. How could he have done that?

Let's look at the context - turns out the elderly German gentleman was a sergeant in the SS. Turns out he was a participant in the Warsaw uprising in 1944, which was where my granfather perished as a combatant, and where my father rotted with his mum for several months. Turns out he was drunk and in conversation with my father started boasting about the expolits of the SS in Warsaw during that period.

Context is everything. What my father did to the elderly German gentleman was technically wrong and abhorrent, but in relaising and accounting for the circumstances in which that behavior was precipitated, we can take the first steps toward an understanding that there are shades of grey and allegations dont necessarily coalesce with truth. With respect Larry, sweeping assertions, particularly negative ones about a country as a whole, do little to prove an argument and in fact diminish the credibility of any argument from the same author that came before or are still to come. Regards Dan
General Italia 2 | 18  
23 Nov 2007 /  #438
Jews this Jews that ...

It isnt Polands Problem it is problem of USA (or blesing) and Plaestinians (for them Jews are rather plague).

but Poland ... Jews ? it isnt our problem ... we dont have Jewish Lobby, we dont have problems with Jewish miniority. Iran Israel ... it isnt our problem ...

BTW I like movies made by Jews ...
WAKEUPPOLAND 1 | 44  
23 Nov 2007 /  #439
You see the problem you now face is that you have engaged in a metaphysical debate.

HEAR HEAR!!!!

anti-Semitism is a national disease in Poland

IT IS NOT A NATIONAL DISEASE...IT IS A TIMELESS AND GLOBAL DISEASE.

I am participating in the forum as a private individual, not as a psycho pathologist.

MAKE UP YOUR MIND(S)....!!!
cyg 5 | 119  
23 Nov 2007 /  #440
You see, my father was Jewish, and he spent 1944 and part of 45 in Auschwitz and Bergen Belsen.

The problem with this kind of thinking is that you're generalizing, just as racists and anti-Semites generalize. As someone knowledgeable about people's psychological make-up, you should know that perceptions are often distorted under stressful situations. The Germans in Auschwitz (and I know this because I've delved into the subject a bit) didn't on the whole have to be physically cruel to the inmates - they got other inmates to do most of their dirty work for them. Still, it wasn't the Poles or Ukrainians who organized the camps.

The Polish underground had an organization, Żegota, specifically aimed at helping Jews (AFAIK the only of its kind in occupied Europe). Hardly a sign of rabid anti-Semitism. Jews fought alongside AK troops in the Warsaw Uprising - I dare say they would not have if they saw the AK as their enemy.

Still, the fact remains ( and this forum proves it) that anti-Semitism is a national disease in Poland.

Anti-Semitism is a problem in Poland, as much as it is anywhere else. The only difference is that political correctness has not made very big inroads into society here, and people usually talk about their feelings and fears more openly than in the West. I'm sure you know what I mean - like white boys never saying the n-word unless they are in their own company: they are no less racist than anyone else, just don't come out and say so in public.

Lanzmann's film showed back-woods villagers, who may have seen a camera for the first time in their lives, talking about Christ-killers, and you use that as an argument for inborn Polish anti-Semitism? Get real.
isthatu 3 | 1,164  
23 Nov 2007 /  #441
It seems to me most of Poland has long been ready for a collective therapy.

Dont get lost in hypocrisy,you were doing so well......

Still, the fact remains ( and this forum proves it) that anti-Semitism is a national disease in Poland. Claude Lanzman effectively proved it with SHOAH, especially in the scenes where the villagers

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz a terminally long and ponderous film shot donkeys years ago amongst peasants,lets interview red necks in the southern states 30 years ago and see how enlightened they are re black rights shall we.......your losing credibility buddy.

Bad things about Polish Jews? You have to be more specific here.

Who do you think the ghetto police were,Martians?
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
23 Nov 2007 /  #442
It all started with a book you might have heard of - the Bible - written by Jewish apostles!

Stop with the 'Jesus is Jewish' nonsense!...You are drinking to much vodka with your lox
& bagels or matzo & gefilte fish!...Where in the New Testament does it say 'Jesus, the
Son of God & Son of Man was a Jew...he preached love and tolerance, especially towards
Jews, since they have been so unjustly persecuted'...Jesus called the Pharisees, who the Encyclopedia Judaica says are the founders of modern Rabbinical Judaism '...liars,

hypocrites, and sons of their father, the devil'...
Now, I am getting tired of this discussion, I must admit...I have been close friends with many Jewish people for many, many years, and have had good business dealings with them , and even two Jewish wives!...but my current anger with the Yiddin stems from the fact that they have controlled US foreign policy for at LEAST 20 years, have been instrumental in wrecking our industrial base here, and, from compelling circumstantial evidence, seem to have been a major player in the 9-11 event...and to put the icing on the cake, they have a lockdown on the US media, in effect censoring any news about

their shenanigans...wasn't this the same situation in the Wiemar Republic in Germany
after WWII?...I don't want to see a repeat of that 'form of hell'...if you want a 'Jewish'
perspective on some of this, try this website : [avethemales.ca]...this site belongs to Dr.Henry Makow of Toronto, and, altough I don't agree with all his positions,he gives a balanced view of this problem, with interesting historical background.

And one last thing: as another gentleman said: the Yiddin are a big problem for America
right now, not for Poland...very, very true...and the Zionist Yiddin in Palestine?...they have made Palestine a hell-on-earth for those native peoples.
lukkija 1 | 10  
23 Nov 2007 /  #443
Jesus called the Pharisees, who the Encyclopedia Judaica says are the founders of modern Rabbinical Judaism '...liars,
hypocrites, and sons of their father, the devil'...

Where is tha passage?
Couldn't spot it...
Cheers
NED - | 8  
23 Nov 2007 /  #444
we can't judge the behaviors of those that did what they had to do to survive some 60 years ago.

Even if I agree with this, the fact remains that the Poles of today, where death, degradation and terror are not the order of the day, exhibit similar behaviors, and, mind you, not the poor peasants but obviously individuals with some education. If politicians are legally allowed to Jew-bait and accuse opponents of having Jewish roots even if they're not Jewish, what does that say about the Polish political and social culture and mindset. It's like saying, "Don't vote for Walesa or Kwasniewski because they are Antichrists. The ultimate irony is that neither of these gentlemen appear to have Jewish origins. It seems to me that you are trying too hard to relativize and excuse things that bear no relativization just because you happen to be of Polish extraction. I, as a Jew, have no qualms about condemning any criminal actions or bigotry by individual Jews or the Israeli government. The basis of modern society is the individual (not a member of a tribe), who bears full responsibility for his actions. That's an American and cosmopolitan concept, which is still alien to many Europeans, whose thinking is controlled by the notions of nation, blood, the sacred native ground, and similar atavisms.

Quibbling about the ethnicity/religion of those who perished does no honour to the dead. If there existed tension and dissension in their lifetimes, surely we can attempt to be inclusive now. My apologies to any I may offend who feel that the separateness should be perpetuated even in death.

I'm not aware that anyone has quibbled about the ethnicity of the dead. The Russians lost a couple of million in the Nazi camps, the Poles lost even more - that's not the issue here at all, and that's what's so infuritaing about debates like this - not understanding or pretending not to understand the difference between the causes of Jewish deaths and those of others. There was no Final Solution for the Russians and the Poles. They were allowed to survive as nations but only as slaves for the Aryan nation. The total extermination of Jews was one of the underpinnings of the Nazi state ideology and was the natural outcome of hundreds of years of official blaming of the Jews for all the ills of the world. It is not surprising then that so many were the 'willing executioners' and that so many today are still negative or ambivalent about Jews.

What I'm arguing for is not less sympathy for the dead Poles or Russians but more understanding and sympathy for the dead Jews and more condemnation of the causes of their perishment, as tall an order as that may appear.

Context is everything.

Context is not everything. What your paragraph implies is that somehow individual or collective victims of the Holocaust may have deserved their fate. I can't ask my father what the context was because he is dead, but I think it would've been scurrilous to do so. No matter how imperfect some individual Jews may have been that perished as part of the Final Solution, none of them deserved what happened to them. This was concluded at the Nuremberg Trials and confirmed by countless scholarly works by Jews and non-Jews since. It is a closed chapter for most civilized, well-meaning individuals except for those who are still on the wrong side of history.

but my current anger with the Yiddin stems from the fact that they have controlled US foreign policy for at LEAST 20 years

And then some people complain when I'm talking about the lunatic fringe?!

Dont get lost in hypocrisy,you were doing so well......

I don't get the hypocrisy part. The 1st statement is a statement of fact. If you have expert information to contradict it, go ahead. The second is an inference based on fact. You may disagree with it or say it's an invalid inference, but that's quite different from hypocrisy.

IT IS NOT A NATIONAL DISEASE...IT IS A TIMELESS AND GLOBAL DISEASE.

Yes, and you seem to be one of its prouder sufferers.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
23 Nov 2007 /  #445
Jesus called the Pharisees, who the Encyclopedia Judaica says are the founders of modern Rabbinical Judaism '.

This is because you have never opened a Bible in your life OR if you have, you are either
unobservant or lying...read the Gospel of John, Chapter 8, all of it.

The total extermination of Jews was one of the underpinnings of the Nazi state ideology and was the natural outcome of hundreds of years of official blaming of the Jews for all the ills of the world..

The term 'Final Solution' was an invention of the Allies...what you are referring to was the topic of discussion at the Wansee Conference, presided over by Heydrich, who was himself Jewish...I believe the 'position paper' of this conference was entitled 'The Complete Solution to the Jewish Problem in the Eastern Territories', and it referred to a

transfer of Eastern Jews out of the Reich, preferably to Palestine...the Zionists worked with the Nazis on this 'Complete Solution'...this was called the 'Transfer Agreement'...

Eichmann, who also was also Jewish, worked with Heydrich & the Zionists on this...one of the reasons the Israelis captured/executed Eichmann was because of his Jewish background...what I have just stated might surprise you, but it goes to show that history

can take many ironic or tragic twists...Nazism/Zionism are both racist philosophies that
are a dead end.

Imagine a Jewish stand-up comedian telling jokes about dumb pollacks. Nothing extraordinary or xenophobic to it, innit?

Well, the Jewish comedian Sarah Silverman, has said, as part of her show, 'If Jesus was
here, I'd kill Him again!'...this is Jesus Christ she is talking about...and the Yiddin said, 'She's hilarious, and she's pretty, with a nice ass to boot!'...now, imagine, if a Polish comedian said, 'Hey, all those Jews from WWII, they just got what was coming!'...

what would be the reaction?
cyg 5 | 119  
23 Nov 2007 /  #446
Even if I agree with this, the fact remains that the Poles of today, where death, degradation and terror are not the order of the day, exhibit similar behaviors.

Again, you're generalizing. Though I've heard anti-Semitic remarks more than once in Poland, I've heard very strong reactions against these kinds of things, too. I'm not convinced that deep down Poles are in any way more anti-Semitic than others in Europe - though those who are do seem to feel a bit more at ease with their convictions.

Don't judge a whole group of people by how many loonies post garbage on a forum anonymously - I would say that if it wasn't for moderator censorship, many American and British forums would have just as many of them. Covering up a problem doesn't make it better, though.

There was no Final Solution for the Russians and the Poles.

Are you serious? Is someone's death less significant just because he wasn't "targeted" due to his ethnic background? Is the victim any less dead? Did his family suffer any less? That kind of thinking really burns me up.

The Roma were targeted as a group just as much as the Jews, and even more efficiently (a larger percentage of the pre-war Roma population died during the war than of Jews). Does that mean that the Jews' suffering is somehow reduced or made less relevant?

And joepilsudski - unless that's your real name, I would appeal to you to use another nick - while you are free to hold any views you like, associating them with Piłsudski is distasteful at best.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
23 Nov 2007 /  #447
The Roma were targeted as a group just as much as the Jews, and even more efficiently (a larger percentage of the pre-war Roma population died during the war than of Jews).

Distasteful to who?...You?...Well, Cyg, sometimes the truth has a strange taste at first...
Anyway, it is only my viewpoint, and free speech is still legal, in fact, it is enshrined in
the US Bill of Rights... sometimes one has to listen to commentary that one does not agree with...but maybe, in the EU, free spech is restricted, or, speech deemed 'distasteful' is at least discouraged...as to the first point, no suffering is irrelevant to the person who suffers, or, in a larger sense, to the person causing the suffering...it is just that we have been led to believe that some suffering, experienced by certain people, is a 'special' case...Why hasn't Roma suffering been publicized, and why doesn't Hollywood make movies about it?
NED - | 8  
23 Nov 2007 /  #448
Well, the lunatic fringe is at it again.
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389  
23 Nov 2007 /  #449
Sometimes truth is stranger than fiction...I would suggest this book to those who
are interested in WWII history...you can download it:'Hitler: Founder of the State of Israel'...it is by Hennecke Kardle...I tried to create a link, but for some reason the URL

hyper link wasn't working..so you can Google the book title and get a downloadable PDF file...just remember the famous saying, '...in war, the first victim is truth.'
Kilkline 1 | 689  
23 Nov 2007 /  #450
I apologize if I misunderstood you.

no problem. I have difficulty in understanding anti-semitism when such a small race of people have been responsible for such a large number of great scientists, authors and artists and have contributed a disproportionate amount to the world.

I suppose as an Englishman its something I can relate to. :)

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