History of the crime ; Bandera, UPA and Podole Polish land.

Then dont, the Ukrainian national identity was developing in the 19th century, its only natural that initially they identified themselves with Poles, after all they've been subjects of the Polish crown for half a millenium, eventually though they developed a separate entity and started demanding their own backyard.

very true. But this board does not like facts too much LOL

Have you any ties to Ukraine, aphrodisiac? It's a nice country, I've heard.

You are so wrong, Nathan. My world is a world of greatness, power and honour.
In my world a small boy from a stinky Ukrainian village can grow up to be a Soldier
of Polish Empire! In your world he would be doomed to throw out cow fertiliser on
a field all his life. In your world, Nathan, every stinky little nation has its stinky
little country with its stinky little "freedom". Sorry, Nathan - I can't tolerate that.

You must see the greateness of the Polish Empire! Embrace the Dark Side of the Force!

NATHAN...... I-AM-YOUR-FATHER!!!

Torq you just won the poster of the year award together with a Ukrainian village + Nathan and his family as serfs:)))

Can I have BB's village too? I've heard those German workers are quite efficient ;)

I was talking to my student, whose name will remain anonymous, and she told me that Poland got its comeuppance in WWII. I couldn't believe what I was hearing. She said that their assumed superiority really got exposed in 1939 and that they deserved it.

Poland talking about an empire isn't advisable. I dislike such imperialistic talk and us Brits know a little sth about it. Getting ideas above your station is only gonna result in failure.

Rebel scum...

Seriously? Whow, I've never heard that from a Pole before.

She said it alright. Some people just aren't meant to be onboard/onside.

I always thought baiting was below you.

???
My comment wasn't meant to be sarcastic.

Bating??? I wasn't bating at all. She said all those things in my 8pm class today. I was taken aback. She is a bit of an outsider and most, if not all, countries have them. Still, she has her take and she is Polish.

The Other, I know. I didn't take it as such :)

Well then thats a serious wow factor right there, is she normal?

You will plow my di*k, retard, with your tight teethless blabber-hole.


You mean uprisings called Koliivshchyna in 1750s and 1768-1769, when you asked Russians for help in supressing Ukrainian uprising? And you say that Haydamaky used your dove and angel-sword flag? Muhahah. Give me a fukcing break. They may have used it to stick it up your asses, but not as a symbol of any sort. Read about Koliivshchyna and you will know exactly who fought for what and how nice it was:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koliivshchyna


When such a BS institution existed? Give me a single reference.


Read on how Ukrainians used to live with Lithuanians in-between 1350-1550s - there was no rebellions on either side, mutual respect of religion and culture, until appeared hordes of bydliakow from Poland and Russia, who have no culture and no idea of what normal human relations are like. Starting 1591 till 1830s there were hundreds of Ukrainian uprisings to get rid of Polish bydlo and at least managed to bring the ridiculous mimicry of that retarded joke kingdom down.


Ukrainian national identity was developping starting from Kievan Rus' and fortified by fantastic national heroes like hetmans and commanders Sahaydachnyj, Bohdan Chmel, Maksym Kryvonis, Maksym Zalizniak, Ivan Gonta, Ivan Mazepa, Pylyp Orlyk, Polubotok...and millions regular people who believed in freedom and died for it.

They initially identified themselves with Poles? ; )))) Those who said that "Pole, Jew and a dog are of one faith". I don't think they were of such low self-esteem.


If it will be necessery, we will stick our "little, stinky freedom" in your little stinky throat and suffocate you by your own ****.

Not every person having grudge goes on killing spree. I think OUN-B's ideology was more important factor.


source: A history of fascism 1914-1945, Stanley G. Payne, Routledge, 1995
https://books.google.com/books?id=9wHNrF7nFecC&pg=PA428&dq=ukrainian+nationalism&hl=pl#v=onepage&q=ukrainian%20nationalism&f=false

And this was the result:


source: 'Harvest of despair: life and death in Ukraine under Nazi rule', Karel Cornelis Berkhoff, Harvard University Press, 2004
books.google.pl/books?id=nd9WzIkTJrAC&pg=PA295&dq=Ukrainians+with+Polish+wifes+were+ordered+to+kill+them

Another factor was that thousands of OUN-B/UPA members were former policemen who helped Nazis to kill Volhynian Jews. It was nothing new for these men to kill innocent civilians on order.

Ukrainian national identity developed in XIX century. The Austrians sustained initially very weak Ukrainian nationalism and let it grow, because they saw it as possible counterweight to much stronger and more revolutionary Polish nationalism.

During nation-building process, Ukrainians created myths of 'resistance and revival'. You can read it in: 'Nation-building in the post-Soviet borderlands' by Graham Smith, Cambridge University Press, 1988.

Suffocate me with my own ****! :-)

Finally, Nathan! Finally you're talking like a proper OUN/UPA "freedom fighter"!
Did they used to do it to Polish civilians or is that particular way of killing people
your own invention?

In any case - well done, Nathan! Embrace the Dark Side of the Force!
Suffocate me with my own **** - impressive, my boy, impressive :-)

Now, come on, Nathan. Tell us more. Apart from suffocating us with our
own ****, what else great achievements of Ukrainian "freedom fighters"
would you like to try on us again?


We know what's in store for Sokrates :-)




WORDS CAN HURT, YOU KNOW!

I knew it, in every Ukrainian there lives a small scared serf afraid that Polish lords might return!:)))

You're getting so invaded Nathan! :)


And pigs fly, Kievan Rus was an amalgam of Belarus Ukraine and Russia, it had as much to do with Ukraine as Rome with Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation but hey Poland has 1000 years of proud history we dont have to make it up, you apparently do:)


Well given that Mazepa was treating with Poles and ready to access the Commonwealth and Bohdan Chmel was initially a Polish administrator opressing his Ukrainian "brothers" spoke fluent Polish and was probably an ethnic Pole, yeah they did:))

Conversly the only Ukrainian leader who ever succeeded against Poles was probably Polish himself, your only truly great historical figure is probably not even a Ukrainian:))))

I don''t understand this obsession with the Ukrainians.If Ukrainians do not feel Poles,why do you try to persuade them they are Poles?Especially when the eastern ones feel russian.

Who's persuading them that they're Poles? I'm just persuading Nathan to get back on his field:)))))

Always BS !


Who cares? They can have Ukrainian lands but why oh why they impose themselves on Polish territories - Lwów, Podole and part of Wolyn.


well, maybe they should ask Goths as well, you are ridiculous.


Thats what I was trying to tell you all along.
Poles may sound nationalistic, unable to self-criticism when in fact most of it is defensive attitude in discussion with foreigners.
In fact I have noticed same attitude in some Brits on PF when they jump on shadows "defending" their country.
In fact Seanus attitude displayed by your student is not that rare or exclusive.
In 1890 in Krakow in the society of historians developed trend, in short they most of the blame for Poland misfortunes and disasters ascribed to the shortcomings and failures of the Poles.

In communist Poland this trend become travesty of itself and any actions of Poles as independent and proud nation were ridiculed.
Poland should become depended colony of others as Poles were and are unable to govern themselves.
Your student is a fool, ask her about her background for communist party or communist security forces in her family.


Its only solution for Poland to remain independent country, being medicate is no good as there Russia and Germany.

Hey, this is the way it has to be carried on, Torq. Don't get offended (Btw **** was s*it if it makes feel you better : )). It is history.


I sure do. But everyone feels this hurt only for himself. But to hurt others seems so easy and funny, right?!

I want the last time to hear anything said towards my sister. If you are a retarded piece of s*it, better watch your mouth.

No offence taken, no worries. I don't mind a good slagging match every now
and again as long as it's all in good fun :)


Somehow, it doesn't :)


Yes. It's only fun if I hurt somebody else. Hurting me is just not fair :)

Anyway Nathan, we're both Poles - you're Ukrainian, I'm Pomeranian; and being
Poles we shouldn't fight each other. Peace brother!

Hej, I may accept that we are on the opposite poles, with Sokrates sitting actually on one of them ;) ,nothing else : )

And as neighbors - Ukrainian and Polish - we should respect and understand each other. History is in the past, let's learn from it - not repeat it.

Peace, bro.

So, you insist on not being Polish? Oh, well - I guess I'll have to accept that :)
As for good neighbour relations, co-operation and mutual respect - I'm all for it.

ЦЕ БУЛО НЕПОРОЗУМІННЯ. НЕ СЕРДИТЕСЯ НА МЕНЕ ;)

Your sister is on my pole Southern style:))))

Also in the name of good mutual relations you're getting invaded.

will you stop spread rubbish on my thread which has nothing to do with the tread subject.
stop goading that nazi freak Nathan for sanity sake .....

the same goes for you Torq

where is adm / random?

Hundreds? That's overexagerreting, give me a link to all of the uprisings and ill be happy to read about em. As to the Cossack coflict both sides were wrong!


Oh they do


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/January_Uprising

I didn't say exist I said they fought together for it


At thoose times Poland was falling and falling down. Either tho I im not slightly pro any "Kresy" people their allways been quite shovinistic a bit too much to my taste.


ehm I thought the Ukies was medling with Bydło but oke..


You clearly have something against the most enlighted Republic :=)


yupp


Damn it. If it wasn't for my lazyness I would removed the res tof my post

They are quite on topic it's about Polish lands and what Torq would want Nathan to do on his Polish land when it becomes Polish again hehe

But still to the reference of Pomeranian-Ukrainian Poles well then im half Mazovian Pole ^^

Still thinking of topic it's hard for the Ukrainians to use anyone else then bandera as gloryfication although he personally didn't do any of this killings so it's even harder to convince them that he was a bad guy. The most important was the resistance itself, I understand that. It would been nice tho to put some flowers on some graves sometimes for relations sake.

Я не серджусь. Я поважаю тебе як брата. :)


I see no light in it.


Absolutely.


Read any book on extensive Ukrainian history.


Luckily for you, I don't have a sister. I agree with invasion part - your mouth will be quite invasively occupied ; )


Yes, that's what I said ; ) (you wanted to offend me, but offended yourself ; ))


Well, instead of fighting them, you fought us, exposing your and our asses to Russians and Germans. That's why I say that there was no bright light whatsoever in that mimicry of kingdom tsarya Horoha ;)


I saw no Ukrainians there. But who cares - good for you - it was a good cause. Hey, Boleslaw Prus took part in it and he is one of my super-favorite foreign writers (Pharaon and Lalka - the last one - chef-d'oeuvre!)

Maybe some example of such book (with hundreds of uprisings)? If you are able to provide any. Hmm? :)