Bielski Brothers - does anyone know the story?

Harry

31 Jul 2009 / #31

To be more precise, Harry meant to say

No, what I meant to say is exactly what I said. As for what you said, I'll have to defer to your superior knowledge of what Jews do and do not say, I spent most of my time around Poles (and regretably these days virtually no Poles are Jews) and rarely meet any Jews. You, on the other hand, must spend lots of time with Jews because you tell us that you know what they say. Although I'll have to agree with you that a communist can not by definition be Jewish.

Any Jew collaborating with the Germans or the Soviets is instantly absolved of crimes because he was saving his life.

Could you perhaps post some links showing that this is a widely held belief? I'd most certainly have words to say about the topic (something along the line of "No he certainly isn't absolved of guilt for any crimes".)

Kind of ironic that it's you who is talking collaborating with a foreign power which wants to invade Poland. There's somebody who posts here who once collaborated with a foreign power and stood ready to attack Poland anytime he was ordered to do so. Did Bielski sign up to bomb Poland too?

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

31 Jul 2009 / #32

Check my posts in the other forums, they tend to be more positive.

Touche. I stand corrected.

Here in this forum there are more than enough cheerleaders for Poland

I see the logic.

(and more than enough racists and anti-semites).

Aren't there always?

1jola 14 | 1875

31 Jul 2009 / #33

Could you perhaps post some links showing that this is a widely held belief?

I'll be happy to do so when I come back from sailing. Had you been more human, we would have invited you too, being generally hospitable to foreigners living here.

I'd most certainly have words to say about the topic (something along the line of "No he certainly isn't absolved of guilt for any crimes".)

You'll have a chance to say what you want, but looking at the record, you'll have a hard time finding others supporting your quest for the truth. Last time we tried this, Sjam dug up a 7 year old article which amounted to nothing. To 'most certainly have words to say about the topic' you will have to read the Ghetto chroniclers. And I don't mean from Holocaust websites for obvious reasons.

There's somebody who posts here who once collaborated with a foreign power and stood ready to attack Poland anytime he was ordered to do so.

Wimp! You seem to be bored so, go to 'Bagel' on wiki and look up the history of the bagel.

Wiki entry: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bagel

Contrary to common legend, the bagel was not created in the shape of a stirrup to commemorate the victory of Poland's King Jan Sobieski over the Ottoman Turks in 1683. It was actually invented much earlier in Kraków, Poland, as a competitor to the obwarzanek, a lean bread of wheat flour designed for Lent. In the 16th and first half of the 17th centuries, the bajgiel became a staple of the Polish national diet.[5]

The source, note 5, reads slightly different though:

Contrary to legend, the bagel was not created (in the shape of a stirrup) to commemorate the victory of Poland's King Jan Sobieski over the Ottoman Turks in 1683. It was born much earlier in Krakow, Poland, as a competitor to the obwarzanek, a lean bread made of wheat flour and designed for Lent. In the 16th century and first half of the 17th, a "golden age for Poland's Jews," the bajgiel became a staple in the nationaldiet.

forward.com/articles/14502/

Do I need to comment?

Harry:
Check my posts in the other forums, they tend to be more positive. Touche. I stand corrected.

Aren't there always?

Maybe you two are soul mates?

Harry

31 Jul 2009 / #34

I'll be happy to do so when I come back from sailing. Had you been more human, we would have invited you too, being generally hospitable to foreigners living here.

I'd have had to refuse, am either going down Lublin with my girlfriend or staying in front of the TV to watch the Ashes, sorry, I mean 'let her learn more about cricket'. We were up in Mazury last weekend.

You'll have a chance to say what you want, but looking at the record, you'll have a hard time finding others supporting your quest for the truth.

When you get back from sailing, have a read about the Kapo trials.

Do I need to comment?

If you want anybody to have any clue what you are talking about, yes.

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

31 Jul 2009 / #35

Maybe you two are soul mates?

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean; if this is meant to be some form of insult or jibe, and if so, what warrants it? If Harry's right, I'm not going to keep arguing with him. I'll just simply concede that he's right and drop it. From what I see, that's somewhat unusual here, but that's just how I do things. It helps me look far more reasonable and rational a person next time around. If you're calling me Anti-Polish... ???

1jola 14 | 1875

1 Aug 2009 / #36

have a read about the Kapo trials.

How many kapos, Ghetto police, Gestapo agents were tried and brought to justice? Why are Jews hunting camp guards and not their own traitors? Why does Israel protect war criminals? What law went into effect in Israel to protect them?

If you want anybody to have any clue what you are talking about, yes.

Read the wiki entry, then the source and see if they mean the same. They do not. The person making the entry twisted the original meaning to the effect that bagels become Polish national food. Nonsense. The source talks about Jews only and bagels become their staple food because they could be made quickly after the Sabbath.

I'm not sure what that's supposed to mean

Relax, not many can agree with Harry on all points, that's all.

Pan Kazimierz 1 | 195

1 Aug 2009 / #37

Relax, not many can agree with Harry on all points, that's all.

Oh. Yes, that does seem rather apparent here. I don't agree with Harry (or, usually, much of anyone else, either) on all points.
It's true that he seems quite a positive and generally helpful person outside this particular forum.

Harry

3 Aug 2009 / #38

How many kapos, Ghetto police, Gestapo agents were tried and brought to justice?

No idea but I'm sure it wasn't enough. However, the point that some kapos were tried does pretty much shoot down your "Any Jew collaborating with the Germans or the Soviets is instantly absolved of crimes because he was saving his life" line.

Why are Jews hunting camp guards and not their own traitors?

No idea. Do feel free to email them and ask.

Why does Israel protect war criminals? What law went into effect in Israel to protect them?

As you may be able to guess, I'm not a fan of Israel. I sometimes think that Israel is trying to make sure that there is another holocaust.

The source talks about Jews only and bagels become their staple food because they could be made quickly after the Sabbath.

No it doesn't. Last time I checked, in the 16th and first half of the 17th centuries (as now) Jews were not a nation: they were citizens of the state in which they lived, i.e. Poland for the Jews written about in the article.