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I'M SO SURPRISED BY THIS SALARY FOR IBM in WROCLAW 3000 ZL gross


zetigrek
17 Oct 2010 #31
so what's the stake for a lesson hour (45 min)?
Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Oct 2010 #32
Let's try and keep on track with the IBM guy. I've heard of this before whereby young guys starting out get that wage but if he has experience of note then I am surprised. Companies are tightening their belts but IBM don't need to be so stingy.

Zeti, please feel free to PM me and I'll tell you there. It's a private matter in terms of specific details.
pantsless 1 | 267
17 Oct 2010 #33
2000pln will be fine if you're sharing a flat, might be a little tight if you want your own place.

Not tight, impossible. A studio goes goes for 800 up to 1500zl a month.

For people who 'get by' on 2000zl a month or whatever in Wroclaw/Krakow/Warsaw, theyre obviously taking the **** since they must have family or friends supporting them somehow, or seriously skimp on some other part of life, such as clothing, food, or entertainment.

If you are doing any programming work you should be making 4000 net easy. IBM and LG and 3M and all the other large corps who settled down here are the only ones still offering such dismal salaries, since they originally budgeted to be paying Poles peanuts for another decade. They seriously expected qualified IT workers and engineers to run them 500 dollars a month.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Oct 2010 #34
For people who 'get by' on 2000zl a month or whatever in Wroclaw/Krakow/Warsaw, theyre obviously taking the **** since they must have family or friends supporting them somehow, or seriously skimp on some other part of life, such as clothing, food, or entertainment.

Hardly. You can easily get a room for 500-600PLN a month. Public transport is 100zl a month at the most - and if you can't live on 1300PLN a month, there's something wrong with you.

So much nonsense is posted on here - but heck, if you can't live on 250 pounds a month after the bills are paid, something is wrong!
jonni 16 | 2,485
17 Oct 2010 #35
Hardly. You can easily get a room for 500-600PLN a month.

There comes a point in most people's lives when they want much more than a room.

but heck, if you can't live on 250 pounds a month after the bills are paid,

Many have to, but few want to.

Personally, 4-5000zl net in PL would be comfortable but not rich. Living in one's own country on low wages is bad enough - living abroad and having to scrimp must be very demotivating.
OP YANNICK 1 | 3
17 Oct 2010 #36
delphiandomineThreads: 11Posts: 3,319Joined: Nov 25, 08Gender: Male

if you can give a lot of information it will be nice this is my email yannodilon@gmail thank
convex 20 | 3,978
17 Oct 2010 #37
if you can't live on 250 pounds a month after the bills are paid, something is wrong!

something is terribly wrong :(

Doesn't IBM in Wroclaw provide basic IT support? 3000/mo for basic support seems about right...
pantsless 1 | 267
17 Oct 2010 #38
Hardly. You can easily get a room for 500-600PLN a month. Public transport is 100zl a month at the most - and if you can't live on 1300PLN a month, there's something wrong with you.

So much nonsense is posted on here - but heck, if you can't live on 250 pounds a month after the bills are paid, something is wrong!

Is this for ******* real? Are you serious? Nonsense? Delph I remember your posts from time to time and were normally spot on but what the hell is this ****?

You are right, there is something wrong with me about not wanting to live at poverty level. Of course I can live on that, but do I want to?

Because if I follow you correctly, you think a working professional who makes enough money to rent a... room.. and ride the tram... probably gets to eat meat once a week... is something fair?

1300 net
-650 room
-170 public transport (thats in wroclaw)
-60 mobile

that leave you 420zl a month. for food, clothing, and god forbid you get sick, like a private visit to the doctor and medicine. thats poverty my friend.
convex 20 | 3,978
17 Oct 2010 #39
1300 net

Who said anything about 1300 net?

Delph said 1200pln for food, clothing, and whatever else.

3000 gross is 2500 net

2500
-650 room
-170 transport
-60 mobile

=1620 to **** away on whatever you want.
poland_
17 Oct 2010 #40
Companies are tightening their belts but IBM don't need to be so stingy.

IBM are notoriously low payers, I know some people that have worked for them here in Poland and still work for them in the UK. They prefer to give incentives, like medical cover, gym membership and a car over increases in salary. Once you become an IBM employee you get sucked into the ethos and are happy to stay,because its IBM.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Oct 2010 #41
Good point, war! The perks are the lures. Plus, I'd imagine that they maintain the old career ladder idea. It doesn't apply to so many industries these days.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
17 Oct 2010 #42
Personally, 4-5000zl net in PL would be comfortable but not rich. Living in one's own country on low wages is bad enough - living abroad and having to scrimp must be very demotivating.

Smart comment. Fully agree with you here.
convex 20 | 3,978
17 Oct 2010 #43
IBM are notoriously low payers

They pay their engineers and consultants very well.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Oct 2010 #44
-170 public transport (thats in wroclaw)
-60 mobile

that leave you 420zl a month. for food, clothing, and god forbid you get sick, like a private visit to the doctor and medicine. thats poverty my friend.

170 for public transport? I thought Wroclaw was like Poznan - about 80zl a month for the public transport pass? MPK Wroclaw say 80zl for the pass within the city limits.

Mobile costs? You can get a year's worth of service on play for 10zl.

So - more realistically.

2300zl netto.

500-600zl a month for a room in a shared flat. (1700zl left)
80zl - Public transport pass (1620zl left)
40zl - mobile (1580zl left).

Something is seriously wrong if you can't live on 1500zl a month in Poland - and entry level professionals aren't going to be paying for private health care. Medicine is pretty cheap unless you're a major hypochrondriac. Even private health insurance can be as cheap as around 120zl a month for the basic cover. As much as people moan about it, the basic NFZ cover isn't terrible either - I've used it for both dentristy and general practice and been pleasantly surprised by the quality.

I don't understand why people think that entry level jobs in Poland should pay a high salary comparable to Western Europe. It's entry level!

Personally, 4-5000zl net in PL would be comfortable but not rich. Living in one's own country on low wages is bad enough - living abroad and having to scrimp must be very demotivating.

Well, they can't expect to move abroad and suddenly be kings. Are they likely to have their own flat and comfortable living standards in the UK? Not very likely - I know people struggling in London on 25k a year.

Living standards are lower here, no doubt about it - but that's to be expected from a poorer country.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
17 Oct 2010 #45
Well, from our experience in Poland, the "life" starts with at least 4000pln.

Depends on where in PL you live. And most of all, it depends on what contacts you have.

If you lived in PL your whole life, you usually have a lot of contacts. And you have learned how to live cheap with a GOOD standard of living.

I'm impressed when I see how well many students at my university live on a rather small income.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Oct 2010 #46
If you lived in PL your whole life, you usually have a lot of contacts. And you have learned how to live cheap with a GOOD standard of living.

Oh yes. It's one thing about Poland - you can save a hell of a lot of money by simply knowing the right person from the right place. Heck, I have a very nice office for myself, all because I met someone who wanted English lessons - and for the size of it, I save at least 800zl a month in the process for about 8 hours a month of my time.

Good deal? I'd say so.
SzwedwPolsce 11 | 1,595
17 Oct 2010 #47
That's exactly how it works in Poland.

Many people wonder how Poles can have so high standard of living on a small salary. This the major answer.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
17 Oct 2010 #48
Very true that! If the demand is high enough, you can be treated to all sorts of niceties and freebies. I know quite a few rich folk and I just need to ask if I want to vary my working repertoire. An office to use through their expenditure really saves me a lot.

Back to the topic, this guy needs to do the same and improve his skillset. He got a foot in the door which is a major plus in and of itself so he can take it from there.
jwojcie 2 | 763
17 Oct 2010 #49
I happen to know one guy who was working in IBM in Wroclaw.
If I understand correctly then IBM in Wroclaw is for the most part kind of IT service. As such it is divided in two levels (third level is X file section which is not based in Wroclaw). First level of support is basically working with "issue screen". In fact the only skill required to work on first line is language skill, possibly some West European language other than English. IBM is training this people of course but they are not by any means IT engineers. The second line is where some fun starts and where future employee should have some dedicated IT skills...

Anyway, the guy I know was working on first line and got something between 3000-3500 gross. Considering Wroclaw realities and the fact that his initial skill was just foreign language (not English) I would say it is not bad, not great, but not bad. Before you all come on me, mind that he is not a native speaker of that language.

To sum things up, @YANNICK, if you are experienced IT guy then definitely someone is trying to rob you. If you are not, then you will not rather go far north from those 3000. I suppose for foreigner without family net which makes life easier for typical Pole, you would be struggling.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
17 Oct 2010 #50
Many people wonder how Poles can have so high standard of living on a small salary. This the major answer.

It's why it's silly to assume that Poles only earn the salary that they declare - I don't think it's any secret that the backbone of the country is in the black economy.

Another example : I have access to a lot of free English books, because I know someone who runs a bookshop. So - free textbooks and free office, without doing very much. If I was to pay for this, I'd be looking at spending over 1000zl a month - but I don't have to.
poland_
17 Oct 2010 #51
They pay their engineers and consultants very well.

Maybe so, but the Yannicks of this world have to live hand to mouth. I met an English Guy who was working for IBM UK, but was in PL on transition assignment (2005), he was on a UK salary plus living accommodation and expenses + x$ per day. He had a great time because PL was very inexpensive to him. The people he was training in the Krakow office were earning 3,000-4,000 PLN per month and most of his staff were MBA's.
convex 20 | 3,978
17 Oct 2010 #52
The people he was training in the Krakow office were earning 3,000-4,000 PLN per month and most of his staff were MBA's.

There's a CCNP here doing wireless work on 9k/mo. He's an average engineer, nothing special technically.

3k-4k for someone fresh out of college that can't actually do anything sounds alright, particularly 5 years ago.
pantsless 1 | 267
17 Oct 2010 #53
Something is seriously wrong if you can't live on 1500zl a month in Poland

Sorry delph, I misread you and thought we were talking about 1300zl net. I agree with you here wholeheartedly, 1500 on life life after bills and stuff gets tucked away is actually not that terrible :)
poland_
17 Oct 2010 #54
There's a CCNP here doing wireless work on 9k/mo

Two of the girls he trained now work in Warsaw same area Finance, but in a different sector ( Real estate ) that is what they earn now 9-10K + gym+ Medicover.
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
18 Oct 2010 #55
You talk like you'd be suggesting that Poles likes their low wages...

What I am saying is that low wages is not in the public interest.

Actually Zitigrek owning your own business is the only way to go no matter where you live.

I don't think it's any secret that the backbone of the country is in the black economy.

If people have to depend on the Black Economy they aren't getting paid enough.
poland_
18 Oct 2010 #56
Actually Zitigrek owning your own business is the only way to go no matter where you live.

I would disagree with that, there are countries in which in is better to be an employee than a employer. Go figure NL
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
18 Oct 2010 #57
I'm including working conditions not just salary, after all you are the boss
landora - | 199
18 Oct 2010 #58
Sorry delph, I misread you and thought we were talking about 1300zl net. I agree with you here wholeheartedly, 1500 on life life after bills and stuff gets tucked away is actually not that terrible :)

I can imagine that 1300zl net would be very tough for a foreigner!

If people have to depend on the Black Economy they aren't getting paid enough.

They don't depend on it, but it's the done way of doing things. For instance, all the guarded parking lots - the people working there are either on early retirement or on disability pensions.
wroclawx - | 2
4 Feb 2011 #59
Salaries in Poland are so low ;-( ... high expactations regarding education etc
JaneDoe 5 | 114
4 Feb 2011 #60
high expactations regarding education etc

That's just an excuse for not to hire a person, because an employer would have to pay him/her more $. "Cheap labor" in Poland rules. Sad that educated people work below their qualifications and such little money.


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