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Things that Polish-American should know about Poland.


Paulina 13 | 3,807
14 Jan 2011 #121
No, I don't think so. A lot of threads are filled with racist rants of trolls, arguments of the same members (usually Polish-American right-wingers vs. European liberals) and photos of girls in bikinis. That's how I see this forum.

Oh, I forgot about strong anti-Catholic (and anti-religious) sentiments here, intolerance, nasty comments, some kind of obsession... I was quite surprised by this when I started to read PF - after all this was coming from the Western people who were always shown in Poland as role models as far as tolerance is concerned.

Yes, this is how I see this forum...
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
14 Jan 2011 #122
To be honest, a lot of it is the result of seeing how the Catholic Church abuses its position in Poland. I dare say that the vast majority of people on here are happy with the Catholic church existing, but not when it abuses its position for its own benefit.
Paulina 13 | 3,807
14 Jan 2011 #123
The Church has as much power as people give to it, right?
It's not just that. People here are making fun of Catholic religion too.
And I don't think you're right that "the vast majority of people on here are happy with the Catholic church existing". I'd say the PF members are just wating for and wishing the Church to disappear - they actually wrote it in some other thread some time ago...
Bzibzioh
15 Jan 2011 #124
Anyway, feel free to be what you want. Identifying with a particular race, ethnicity, tribe, nation is kind of ridiculous anyway.

No, it's not. Knowing where are you coming from gives you sense of belonging. Why so many people are doing family genealogy research? Why people who were adopted are looking for their biological parents? I feel really sorry for you that you are so nonchalant about such a basic human need. Lets face it: there is something wrong with you.
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2011 #125
Maybe you're just weak, dunno. I get my sense of belonging from the people that I meet through life and have relationships with. Not from souls long past and people I've never met. I guess some people just need to associate with something bigger. I'll be alright knowing that the people I care for also care about me.
z_darius 14 | 3,968
15 Jan 2011 #126
Wrong. According to Schengen theory, the passport stamp *is* a visa - albeit one that's granted at the border. It's not called that, and the stamp is free - but to all practical extents, it's a 90 day visa.

I wrote nothing about any Schengen theories. I wrote about Polish law in regards to visas for Americans. I linked to a relevant page of Poland's government website where they state clearly that Americans (among others). Do not need visas to visit Poland. Wikipedia states the same, in the very article Harry linked to, and immediately under the fragment he quoted.

But of course you are the only and final judge in regards to Polish visa regulations :)
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
15 Jan 2011 #127
I get my sense of belonging from the people that I meet through life and have relationships with

yeah, your grandparents and great grandparents are not people long past, they were in
your life, least some are lucky enough to have shared some time on this earth with
their grandparents and great g-parents.

I lost three of mine before i was born, and briefly met one.. my only visions are /were
thru my mother when I would ask her about grandma.. and grandpa.

but it painted a picture for me, it made me imagine myself in poland, walking with her
when she was a little girl.. the stories are true accounts of someones life that I met.

my mom and dad are also deceased, but I go to their graves and pray, talk and wish
that they were still here, they could see their grandchildren, one in which my dad never
was able to meet..and genealogy is not just about tracking your ethnic background,
there is also health/genetics..

certain ethnic cultures have high percentages of rare disease..
example would be africans with sickle cell anemia.

so... I think its important not only for historical reasons but for background on health.

I think every family should be sharing this information, because if I had the information
when my second daughter was born, I would have been educated enough to know how
to read signs and get my daughter to the hospital much more quicker and the doctors
would have screened for futher rare disorders and she wouldnt have had to go thru
what she went thru and almost died...............

because her sugar was only 8... so believing that she was a perfect healthy baby
and there was nothing wrong we almost lost her because we had no knowledge of this
ever happening.

now had I researched sooner, my flags would have been raised when I discovered that
my grandmother who died before I was born had five girls that died with similar
diagnosis /symptoms as my daughter.

so for you, it might not be a important issue.. but dont knock for those of us who do
need to know,, without the knowledge of history and such, really , none of our arses would
be here if someone from our great past didnt keep his arse in check and make it thus far.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
15 Jan 2011 #128
Oh, I forgot about strong anti-Catholic (and anti-religious) sentiments here, intolerance, nasty comments, some kind of obsession

good point, they do not respect others, its some kind of fighting atheism with totalitarian affiliation.

I one thing that bugs me for some time - PennBoy comments about keeping Poland homogeneous.
Its evident that he doesn't know that much about Poland at last he doesn't understand Poles.
Why don't you keep Pennsylvania homogeneous or do something about it, Poland ain't country from Civilizations VI Game !
ChrisPoland 2 | 123
15 Jan 2011 #129
Regarding the Catholic church - Polish Americans should know that the Catholic church in Poland is not the same as the Catholic church in America. In order to partake of the same "services" for lack of a better word, completely different requirements are in place, handed down as God's law but are in fact often the arbitrary decision of one priest. I have often met with the statement that the Catholic church in America is not the "real" church.

In addition, if you are not interested in involving your children in the church, prepare yourself for a lot of comprises. If compromise is too much for you, prepare to feel oppressed.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2011 #130
I wrote nothing about any Schengen theories. I wrote about Polish law in regards to visas for Americans. I linked to a relevant page of Poland's government website where they state clearly that Americans (among others). Do not need visas to visit Poland. Wikipedia states the same, in the very article Harry linked to, and immediately under the fragment he quoted.

Schengen law overrides Polish law. Therefore, while a "visa" (as it's understood to be a piece of paper placed in the passport) isn't required, the stamp is still a visa - ie, permission to stay for 3 months.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
15 Jan 2011 #131
Schengen law overrides Polish law.

To sum it up! Poland cannot introduce visas for U.S. citizens, because of Schengen law, on the other hand EU cannot resolve equal treatment of all EU (Schengen) country's by U.S.?

Answer me that delph, are they playing dumb or they they Poles for dummies?
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2011 #132
yeah, your grandparents and great grandparents are not people long past, they were in
your life, least some are lucky enough to have shared some time on this earth with
their grandparents and great g-parents.

Not long enough to really make an opinion one way or another. If genealogy is knowing who your grandparents are, then everyone is deep into genealogy. I think Bzi meant more along the lines of delving in fairly deep to get a sense of belonging.

so for you, it might not be a important issue.. but dont knock for those of us who do
need to know,, without the knowledge of history and such, really , none of our arses would
be here if someone from our great past didnt keep his arse in check and make it thus far.

It's not an important issue that provides me with a sense of belonging (which is what the post was in response to). I have nothing against genealogy, and agree that you kind find out quite a bit of useful, and interesting, information. I just don't think that there is something wrong with me because I don't need to identify with dead ancestors that I've never met in order to make myself complete as a person.

You actually see that quite a bit in the US (not only the US, but an example on hand), people living through the past, taking credit for things they had nothing at all to do with. The idea that someone should be even remotely judged based on the actions that their ancestors took part in is crazy, but you get a lot of it. That pride in the achievements of others crosses over and becomes personal pride. Strange thing.

To sum it up! Poland cannot introduce visas for U.S. citizens, because of Schengen law, on the other hand EU cannot resolve equal treatment of all EU (Schengen) country's by U.S.?

Right, on the first part, no push for the second part. The issue apparently wasn't that big for Poland, alternatively (and more likely), having open borders with its largest trading partner was probably a bit more important than visas to the US.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
15 Jan 2011 #133
having open borders with its largest trading partner

Who is Poland biggest trading partner ?
FUZZYWICKETS 8 | 1,883
15 Jan 2011 #134
ironside wrote:

PennBoy comments about keeping Poland homogeneous.

it still amazes me how "vanilla" Poland is.
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2011 #135
Who is Poland biggest trading partner ?

Germany.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
15 Jan 2011 #136
Thats right, could explain connection you made between trading partner and visas to US?

it still amazes me how "vanilla" Poland is.

European country's used to be that way only 60 years ago!
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,193
15 Jan 2011 #137
Who is Poland biggest trading partner ?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland

Main export partners

Germany 26.1%,
France 6.9%,
Italy 6.9%,
United Kingdom 6.4%,
Czech Republic 5.8%,
Netherlands 4.2% (2009)

Main import partners

Germany 22.4%,
China 9.3%,
Russia 8.5%,
Italy 6.8%,
France 4.6%,
Netherlands 3.6% (2009)

Not from souls long past and people I've never met. I guess some people just need to associate with something bigger. I'll be alright knowing that the people I care for also care about me.

Imagine you had become friends with people of another nation, you like each other, come to know each other, become friends, care about each other.

But you still will join different armies to fight for your respective home countries on behalf of people you don't care as much/know about if there should be war of another kind of dispute.

All these talk about "I like people but not countries" boils down to not much if pushes come to shove, if you ask me. That's something for feelgood times....
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
15 Jan 2011 #138
The Netherlands are the main investors
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2011 #139
Thats right, could explain connection you made between trading partner and visas to US?

The connection is Schengen. It's more important for the borders to be open than for Poles to have visa free access to the US. I think the Schengen members would have given a big hearty gut laugh if Poland made demands to enter the Schengen agreement.

The Netherlands are the main investors

Germany is by far the largest provider of job creating FDI in Poland. The Dutch investments were mostly in the form of buying banks a while back. Germany (and French) investments are in manufacturing.

paiz.gov.pl/poland_in_figures/foreign_direct_investment
PlasticPole 7 | 2,650
15 Jan 2011 #140
European country's used to be that way only 60 years ago!

Are you sure? What about all those Moorish people, Tartars, and others of questionable heritage?
poland_
15 Jan 2011 #141
You should watch the film O Jerusalem

imdb.com/title/tt0443448/
convex 20 | 3,978
15 Jan 2011 #142
All these talk about "I like people but not countries" boils down to not much if pushes come to shove, if you ask me. That's something for feelgood times....

Or you simply don't buy into the idea of having someone you don't know send you to kill someone that you have no issue with.

If push comes to shove, I'd like to think that one can think for themselves instead of repeating the mistakes of history. Would you kill your buddy because someone tells you to? That is the height of insanity.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2011 #143
I think the Schengen members would have given a big hearty gut laugh if Poland made demands to enter the Schengen agreement.

Heck, there was quite a big diplomatic crisis in 1990 after Germany unified - Poles suddenly needed visas to access Germany (they had visa-free access to West Berlin to that point) and the Poles went absolutely beserk.

They were only given visa-free access to the Schengen zone (although there were still internal border checks at that point) after promises that they would take back anyone overstaying.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
15 Jan 2011 #144
I think the Schengen members would have given a big hearty gut laugh if Poland made demands to enter the Schengen agreement.

**** them and **** EU !

Are you sure? What about all those Moorish people, Tartars, and others of questionable heritage?

Yes I'm ! those were much talked about but in numbers they were few! Moorish? you talking middle-ages the times when in American Indian ruled !:)

Only influence of less-white people in Europe you could notice in south Italy and Portugal due to its history !
delphiandomine 88 | 18,454
15 Jan 2011 #145
**** them and **** EU !

Certainly. I'm sure we can discuss re-erecting the border fences, and make sure that every Pole needs to apply for a visa to enter the EU.
Ironside 51 | 11,338
15 Jan 2011 #146
! Do you think that EU country;s endeavored favor onto Poland ?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 13,193
15 Jan 2011 #147
Would you kill your buddy because someone tells you to? That is the height of insanity.

Wasn't that the reality for millennia? There has nothing changed...

Imagine your country get's attacked by your friends nation...happened all the time in Europe...even families stood on different sides of the trench often enough.

Suddenly people who don't mean anything to you can make you kill your friend and your friend will try to kill you.

You can't escape your fate of birth.

...man am I morose today or what...
Patrycja19 63 | 2,699
15 Jan 2011 #148
I don't need to identify with dead ancestors that I've never met in order to make myself complete as a person.

Well if thats the only impression you get from it, then you keep that with you..

I for one still have my daughter alive, thanks to medicine and its historical findings
and genetics, without the continuing research of the past, present and future, she
will be able to live a normal life, as alot of children who are struck with diseases that
disable them because of their genetic past.. and if someone didnt collect this knowledge
alot more children would be born and die without anyone having a clue as to how to
treat it or how to dx the problems within a family.

cancer, spina bifida, muscular dys, etc,, the list goes on of the many many genetic
diseases that can happen.

people living through the past, taking credit for things they had nothing at all to do with. The idea that someone should be even remotely judged based on the actions that their ancestors took part in is crazy, but you get a lot of it. That pride in the achievements of others crosses over and becomes personal pride. Strange thing.

I havent seen this at all, but even if they did, why would that bother you so much?
whats the big deal if your main objective is just to meet people and go by that or are
you more judgemental of those who do feel good about their ancestors accomplishments?

I mean, people are noticed for the things they do, and maybe personally they dont really
want to be remembered by these things, but hey, george washington was our first pres
and he was remembered for that, abe lincoln, but this is all historical too so its there
whether you or anyone else likes it, and if someone can claim they are decendents of these
very influential men, well no sweat off my back. Im not going to cut them down because
they have famous ancestors. to me thats petty, and jealousy, and again, I know alot of
researchers, they dont do this for sense of belonging, they already have familys and have
established alot.. its more of a curiosity and interest and hobbys.

for me it was finding reasons why for my daughters sake , because there was no information
avail for the specialists and doctors when they were asking me a gazillion questions that I
had no answers to.

it just went from there to finding more.
Bzibzioh
15 Jan 2011 #149
Maybe you're just weak, dunno.

You can make light of it all you want but I'm still right. It's healthy to know who you are, where are you coming from and where are you going. When we can’t connect to a place, we can’t work out who we are. If only, it helps you to laugh off morons who are trying to tell you that you are Canadian while you are Polish for example ;)

Here in Canada there is even a new term for those type of mixed races and cultures: third culture kids or trans-cultural-kids. They lack a feeling of belonging. They can face depression, restlessness, isolation, relationship difficulties, identity issues. Their home is wherever their family is – the family is a portable homeland.
PennBoy 76 | 2,436
15 Jan 2011 #150
I one thing that bugs me for some time - PennBoy comments about keeping Poland homogeneous.
Its evident that he doesn't know that much about Poland at last he doesn't understand Poles.
Why don't you keep Pennsylvania homogeneous or do something about it, Poland ain't country from Civilizations VI Game !

I couldn't give two shits about what bugs you, stop cryin' like a lil' girl. What are you like 18? you don't even remember living in communist Poland keep your stupid comments to yourself.


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