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The slow, whiny death of British Christianity


plk123 8 | 4,150
15 Aug 2010  #1
And now congregation, put your hands together and give thanks, for I come bearing Good News. My country, Britain, is now the most irreligious country on earth. This island has shed superstition faster and more completely than anywhere else. Some 63 percent of us are non-believers, according to a 2006 Guardian/ICM poll, while 82 percent say religion is a cause of harmful division. Now, let us stand and sing our new national hymn: Jerusalem was dismantled here/ in England's green and pleasant land.

johannhari.com/2010/08/10/the-slow-whiny-death-of-british-christianity
SeanBM 35 | 5,808
15 Aug 2010  #3
First its opponents were burned, then jailed, then shunned.

You'd think they would stop after they were burned.

Britain, is now the most irreligious country on earth.

Naw, really?
I doubt that, what about the Netherlands?

Britain is 8th place in this pole:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Europe#Gallup_poll_2007.E2.80.932008
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2010  #4
Plk123, Britain has 3 countries. Scotland is around 2/3 Christian so your level of non-believers is too high in the context of my country. With the massive influx of Poles and Lithuanians, that number could be even higher.
poland_
15 Aug 2010  #5
Well religion is out in the UK and I guess that leaves the state as god
scp-inc.org/publications/journals/J2704
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,448
15 Aug 2010  #6
No, the most irreligious and downright godless is the Czech Republic. And to think the beer-guzzling Pepiczki border the decent God-fearing Slovaks and Poles.
Seanus 15 | 19,706
15 Aug 2010  #7
They still have a 25% belief rate, Pol3. You are implying that they are somehow less as people for not believing. So what if they drink a lot of beer? Most Slavs and everyone else do too.

I've made my point on the thread. Scotland is a different animal.
Babinich 1 | 455
16 Aug 2010  #8
What is Christianity being replaced with?
Chicago Pollock 7 | 504
16 Aug 2010  #9
The Word. Christianity is going to replace these Catholic pagan churches.
Richfilth 6 | 415
16 Aug 2010  #10
What is Christianity being replaced with?

Rationality.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
16 Aug 2010  #11
What is Christianity being replaced with?

Probably islam; this is not a slam against that religion but rather an acknowledgment of the growth of islam all over the world while the western world, as we know it, is slowly and willingly becoming a world of non-believers and/or converts to Islam. Christians are slowly becoming a minority in their own countries.

I understand that many of you rejoice over the fact Christianity all over the western world, yes including the US is in decline. I don't mind people who don't believe or people who believe in other Scriptures but I don't understand why some jump for joy over it. There's a thread where someone was lamenting the decline of the UK as a nation, in my view religion is yet another link holding a country together. Again, I'm not talking about forcing people to believe, those were despicable days. However I like traditions and I also cherish my and other people's beliefs.
OP plk123 8 | 4,150
16 Aug 2010  #12
Christianity all over the western world, yes including the US is in decline.

i don't know about that.. or maybe the far out there branch of it here has grown..

Plk123, Britain has 3 countries.

i know.. read the article.. those aren't my words..

plk123:
Britain, is now the most irreligious country on earth.

Naw, really?
I doubt that, what about the Netherlands?

again, not my words.. maybe the among the "natives"?.. i dunno.. i figured the number of believers would be covered by numbers of muslims though... but the article is about christianity though... NL may be. i'm no expert.. i just found the article interesting and thought many of you would too.

scp-inc.org/publications/journals/J2704/

damn, great article.. will have to come back and read the whole thing

Britain is 8th place in this pole:
Gallup poll 2007-2008

i see... surprised that all of scandinavia is in the lead..
Amathyst 19 | 2,702
16 Aug 2010  #13
Poland   23%
Georgia   22%
Macedonia   20%
Romania   18%
Turkey 8%

(taken from the gallop poll)

I see Poland are in good company ;0)

What is Christianity being replaced with?

By your average Brit, they are just living their lives without having religion involved and dictating what they do or how they act. But i think the article is quite misleading, there are 1,000s of dodgy African churches popping up in the UK and growing in numbers..

This site aims to provide the most comprehensive listing of Black-majority, Black-led and Asian churches in the UK. These churches are among the fastest growing Christian organisations in this country today.

bmcdirectory.co.uk

Nothing Christian about these churches though:

channel4.com/programmes/dispatches/episode-guide/series-67/episode-1
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
16 Aug 2010  #14
surprised that all of scandinavia is in the lead..

You wouldn't had you been raised there. Most people would rather be called stupid, selfish or mean than Christian ...and I'm probably understating that sentiment.
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Aug 2010  #15
I don't mind people who don't believe or people who believe in other Scriptures but I don't understand why some jump for joy over it

Because it means that people are growing up and no longer believing fairy tales. Maybe we can get past the idea of an afterlife and start living the one that we have to the fullest. I'd say that's something to be extremely happy about, as a species.
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
16 Aug 2010  #16
Because it means that people are growing up and no longer believing fairy tales...

That is your perspective, one I disagree with wholeheartedly. That's ok though.
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Aug 2010  #17
That is your perspective, one I disagree with wholeheartedly.

Why do you disagree with it? Lets get some meat and potatoes into the stew.
OP plk123 8 | 4,150
16 Aug 2010  #18
yeah, how is the bible or other scriptures not fairy tales?
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
16 Aug 2010  #19
I won't even go there plk because you and convex are insulting right now. You believe in what you want and I promise I want be calling your Scriptures or your set of beliefs fairy tales.

I might say I disagree with them or with your ideology, etc. However if you believe in something, whatever that is, than I assume that you as a free human being have the right to do so and the mind to make your own conclusions so who am I to be calling your set of beliefs - whatever they might be - "fairy tales"?
A J 4 | 1,088
16 Aug 2010  #20
Rationality.

I'm sorry, but I really think European people are being bombarded with these overpopulation stories for a reason. We're obviously having less children, to which the government answers that we need more immigrants.

Conclusion: We might aswell decide to have more children ourselves, because people in the rest of the world obviously aren't having less children. If I look around me, I don't think Christianity will be replaced by rationality.

By your average Brit, they are just living their lives without having religion involved and dictating what they do or how they act. But i think the article is quite misleading, there are 1,000s of dodgy African churches popping up in the UK and growing in numbers..

I think you're right about the misleading part, because to me it's pretty obvious that the elite wants to see more religious people, as they're probably more obedient, and easier to control. I think that's why they love all those beautiful Mosques everywhere, and those lovely African churches.

;)

I mean, just look around you?
OP plk123 8 | 4,150
16 Aug 2010  #21
it wasn't meant as an insult... but we have discussed all of this one ZY's thread last week anyway.. maybe you didn't partake though.. still, how much reality is in the bible or other scriptures? not much, as far as i can tell..
sascha 1 | 826
16 Aug 2010  #22
Maybe this is one way out?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Aug 2010  #23
I might say I disagree with them or with your ideology, etc.

But it's completely irrational. It's difficult for me to take something like that serious. I'm just saying, have a read through Genesis. Seriously? Really? You believe that? Wouldn't you think I was a bit odd if I believed that when people die, their souls are released into trees where they are stored waiting for new lives, people using products derived from trees will be tortured and burned for all eternity, that goes for children, your friends, all of those people that you hold dear that still decide to use wood products. That the world was created by a mighty tree on a planet far away. Would you say that person that believes in that is of sound mind? Keep it to yourself, fair enough, but what if they're wearing a tree emblem? Or protesting at paper plants? It's irrational and shouldn't be accepted by society. If something is irrational, we usually call people out on it.

I'm sorry, but I really think European people are being bombarded with these overpopulation stories for a reason.

Because of the ponzi social welfare system. Only thing is, the immigrants aren't replacing the workers, it's escalating the collapse.
sascha 1 | 826
16 Aug 2010  #24
He has some interesting approaches to this topic on a more general level.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Dawkins

Try some of his books. This f.e..

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Delusion
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
16 Aug 2010  #25
it wasn't meant as an insult...

No problem. Also my previous statement was meant to say:

"...You believe in what you want and I promise I won't be calling your Scriptures or your set of beliefs fairy tales..."

Religion is sort of like breathing, if you truly believe you need it to live than a discussion is sort of pointless, because we all need to breathe and if I need it than I am the one who feels it, not you. It might be irrational and totally illogical to you but not to me. I'm a very logical person by nature yet some things I can't rationalize.

I can't explain why or how or even if I really understand every word in the Bible, no way and I probably never will. However, I can tell you it helps me to become a better person, one who cares about others, one who tries to be understanding when understanding is very hard. Yes, I do draw an extreme sense of strength and hope from it, something I usually keep to myself. Those "fairy tales" are an integral part of my life and yes I'm glad I have that "air" to breathe. Just reading my own words I realize I must sound like a loco to many of you, but I'm not. Yes I'm biased here lol but am pretty sure I'm not crazy or brainwashed or ignorant.

So y'all go ahead and poke fun of Christians, show us all the fallacies, all the clues that we're missing. That's ok, I live an absolutely normal life, am not a fanatic or a religious nut. I know what I and my brothers and sisters believe and it makes us happy. You all stick to what makes you happy and I won't be calling your happiness "fairy tales".

I think that's a pretty fair deal, wouldn't you say?
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Aug 2010  #26
But unlike breathing, religion is learned, not natural. You've just described an addiction.

I think that's a pretty fair deal, wouldn't you say?

It would be except that religious beliefs bleed over into society in a very obvious way. Why is it only off limits until it becomes an open political position?

So y'all go ahead and poke fun of Christians

Will do, just like I do with the tree worshipers. On a side note, "y'all"? Are you Hawaiian hippies stealing our red state language now?
Babinich 1 | 455
16 Aug 2010  #27
But unlike breathing, religion is learned, not natural. You've just described an addiction.

Nice use of a pejorative: addiction.

The case is open on whether religion is natural.

csicop.org/si/show/why_is_religion_natural
skysoulmate 14 | 1,297
16 Aug 2010  #28
On a side note, "y'all"? Are you Hawaiian hippies stealing our red state language now?

Lived in the South for quite some time, best years of my life... LOL

PS. Before anyone bashes the South, I was religious in Sweden too... :)
convex 20 | 3,978
16 Aug 2010  #29
Nice use of a pejorative: addiction.

It describes the situation fairly well. I'm more in the no compromise camp.

The case is open on whether religion is natural.

Just had a read through, I think that the author takes too light of an approach on the need for institutionalized religion. When your brain comes across something that it can't understand, should you put a question mark on it and leave it open for further study, or should you put a concrete explanation in place which impacts other areas of the brain? I'm not so sure that the latter should be supported in any way

Lived in the South for quite some time, best years of my life... LOL

In that case, go forth and colonize the island for us. I'll send you some chaw.
A J 4 | 1,088
16 Aug 2010  #30
I'd be relieved if Christianity would cease to exist as an organized religion which meddles in the affairs of politics and public opinion. Of course people like skysoulmate have the right to believe in whatever they want, but he should know that he's part of the minority who really does, so he should be able to figure out why the majority doesn't want to follow his religion.

Me? I believe that it's pretty harmful to deny your own nature. Socially, physically aswell as mentally. People who worry too much usually drain themselves. I'm not going to suffer from all the hidden negativity in Christianity. I mean, the Bible explains that Satan is the accuser of humanity. Wait a minute, doesn't your religion accuse, judge and condemn human nature?

;)


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