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wife wants to have baby in poland not ireland


reggie 1 | -
7 Sep 2013  #1
my wife is polish and i am irish we met in poland and lived there for a few years, she gave birth to our son in poland and shortly after we moved back to ireland, now she is expecting our next child in 10 weeks and has gone over to poland for every scan one every 4 to 6 weeks since she found out she was pregnant, problem is she will not give birth to our baby in ireland because she doesnt trust our hospital system here there is no talking to her she will not give it a chance and it is puting a lot of preasure on me, is there any polish women out there that can help me with this problem, how can i get her to have the baby here, is it so bad here like i dont think so if it was there would be nobody born in this country at all. please can someone help,,,,thanks
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
7 Sep 2013  #2
Do what the lady wants. However crazy we think her demands are - she is the one giving birth. I know the Irish maternity system is decent. As do you. She is adamant Polands is better.... play along.

Once your kid is born healthy, thats all that matters,
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,665
7 Sep 2013  #3
i think RN is right, she might be wrong, misguided whatever, but the less stress she has the better for her and the baby.
I was just saying the other day that coming back to London from Poland when i was pregnant was the best thing i ever did after some of

the horror stories from poland i have heard - tbh i doubt my twins would have survived.
my ex sister in law had a (male) doctor that 'didnt believe' in painkillers for women in childbirth for example.
but hey ho if she really thinks she will be better off there, she is probably right.
RevokeNice 15 | 1,859
7 Sep 2013  #4
i think RN is right, she might be wrong, misguided whatever, but the less stress she has the better for her and the baby.

My lady gave birth to my mini me. Her demands were ludicrous. But she was the one going through childbirth, not me. So you give in and be as supportive as possible.

Im no feminist. But sometimes a man has to shut up, open his wallet and listen.
goose9
7 Sep 2013  #5
the girl is an idiot ireland has 100% better hospitals than poland many places i've been in africa have better medical care but if she wants to go then send her or tell her the flights booked but book it for the first day of her third trimester then it will be to late to fly
filius
7 Sep 2013  #6
if its due in 10 weeks then its not safe to fly and also in poland painkillers cost money having a private room costs money otherwise shes givin g birth in the ward with 8/10 other women plus the infection rate is really bad in polish hospitals be a man put your foot down and tell her its your baby too in poland shes looking at a week long stay in the hospital for no reason other than the longer they stay the more $$ the hospital get

drive over to NI and pop in to the royal jubilee and show her the birthing suites with pool beds chairs and free drugs thats where one of my nippers was pushed out and its mint
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
7 Sep 2013  #7
I don't know what to tell you other than the truth.
Here, in Poland, there was at least one nurse who really really messed up badly when delivering our son.
Then the doctor in charge of the newborns, well she screwed up really bad too.
The doctor in intensive care made an utterly retarded decision just when he was starting to turn the corner.
Our son has been dead for almost 3 years now he'll continue to be dead every day until I'm dead too.
He had a rough life from beginning to end and I found myself trying to make decisions for him and my wife based on scant knowledge and the infamous p*ss poor communication skills of Poles -nothing was nobody's fault. Everybody covered up for everybody.

If your Polish isn't top notch then you're risking putting yourself in a disadvantageous situation of things don't go smoothly.
A lot depends on the hospital. We trusted the people here to make the right decisions for our son and they failed until they killed him.

Best of luck to you, your wife and the one on the way: )
milky 13 | 1,657
7 Sep 2013  #8
businessinsider.com/best-healthcare-systems-in-the-world-2012-6
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Europe

In relation to having children the health system in Ireland is excellent, my personal experience of the Polish health system, in general is that it is a mess.( a total disaster with no communication and its nobodies fault)

But. go with it, she's the woman having the baby and she will be close to were she is most familiar, don't mind that bullsh1t about not trusting the Irish system. The only thing better in Poland is the summer and the women.
monia 3 | 212
7 Sep 2013  #9
In relation to having children the health system in Ireland is excellent, my personal experience of the Polish health system, in general is that it is a mess.( a total disaster with no communication and its nobodies fault)

Start learning Polish , then .

How did they come up with such ranking ? Italian system is worst than Polish . I have been there( in Italy ) for 3 - months period of time and several times during my ski tours ( I once had a ski injury in Cortina ) and found out how corrupted the system was . Money , hospital treatement , doctor`s internships , and they are ranked 2 - nd . I guess the website was started by Italians.

Poland is like an average European country , there are better hospitals and worse hospitals , better and worse doctors . We are close to Denmark 23-rd , Poland 27-th . Practically no difference . Does anybody refer to Danish system as the one of the worst in the world , according to some trolls Polish is worse than African. Who will believe you, people ?

Your personal experience , even bad will not create an overall good image of Polish system . Norvegians train their students in Polish universities in huge numbers , it is a proof that our education and health facilities fulfill the the most stringent norms.
sir j saville
7 Sep 2013  #10
monia again you raise your blinkered head when will you accept poland is not perfect you life most be really empty and lacking direction if all you do all day every day is come on this forum and spit bile and insult people who see poland in its real light

I went to a polish hospital as my perscription inhaler broke and needed a replacement as the doctors were closed they wantred to admit me to a ward for observation when my wife arrived turns out they say my european health card and thought kerching kerching lets rape the british taxpayer for bed space nursing care when all i needed was a perscription for a 10pln inhaler
Astoria - | 155
7 Sep 2013  #11
Mortality rate, neonatal (per 1,000 live births):

Iralend: 2
UK: 3
Poland: 4
US: 4

(Neonatal mortality rate is the number of neonatals dying before reaching 28 days of age, per 1,000 live births in a given year. Neonatal mortality rate is a better indicator of hospital care than infant mortality rate which counts deaths in the first year of life.)

Your newborn would be 2 times safer in an Irish hospital and home than in a Polish or US hospital and home. But because all these countries have very low neonatal mortality rates (Ireland: 0.2%; Poland: 0.4%) the chance of neonatal's death in Poland is only 0.2% higher than in Ireland. Statistically, it seems insignificant.

data.worldbank.org/indicator/SH.DYN.NMRT
smurf 39 | 1,981
7 Sep 2013  #12
she doesnt trust our hospital system here there is no talking to her

Can you blame her?
I had a few female mates back in the auld sod before I left who were going back to their home countries for the same reason.

If I was a woman, I certainly wouldn't want to give birth in Ireland if I had the chance to give birth in a safer country.

You do remember the Savita thing???

That's why she doesn't trust the Irish health system....and rightly so.
polforeigner
7 Sep 2013  #13
If in Warsaw, I would recommend to have the baby at Damiana Szpital if you could afford. It would obviously be better than at any NFZ hospital and also any public hospital in Ireland (I've heard a lot of bad things from other Europeans). I personally know several women who had their babies at Damiana and they were very satisfied. The problem is the cost because it's a private hospital; if you don't have insurance with a company working with Damiana, it'd cost a few thousands. Probably worth it....
milky 13 | 1,657
7 Sep 2013  #14
Polish health system one of the worst in Europe: report
wbj.pl/article-59140-polish-health-system-one-of-the-worst-in-europe-report.html
Guestpol - | 4
8 Sep 2013  #15
@Milky: your link could also be confirmed by widespread amputation (legs or arms) to be found in Poland. I've always been shocked.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
8 Sep 2013  #16
Where are you seeing these widespread amputations?

Norvegians train their students in Polish universities in huge numbers , it is a proof that our education and health facilities fulfill the the most stringent norms.

Not true in the slightest. The reality is that it is incredibly difficult to get into medicine in a Norwegian university, so for them, having to pay something around $30,000 in total for a year's tuition/living costs in Poland isn't actually that much money by Norwegian standards - it's only 6 months gross average salary. Hence they come to Poland to get a cheap education that allows them access to the profession in Europe.

It's nothing to do with the quality of the education and everything to do with the rights that the papers give.

For what it's worth, I called my doctor at 10am on Thursday morning and had an appointment for 12.30 same day. Not bad, not bad at all... and the visit to the doctor was absolutely perfect in terms of being checked thoroughly.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
8 Sep 2013  #17
For what it's worth, I called my doctor at 10am on Thursday morning and had an appointment for 12.30 same day. Not bad, not bad at all... and the visit to the doctor was absolutely perfect in terms of being checked thoroughly.

Indeed. Not bad at all. (If you have contacts and/or pay privately).
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
8 Sep 2013  #18
I didn't need to have contacts or pay privately, nor did I need to tell any lies about the situation.

All through the NFZ. Not bad at all, and compares favourably with the time spent getting the EKUZ card (10 minutes including filling out the form).
szczecinianin 4 | 345
8 Sep 2013  #19
I didn't need to have contacts or pay privately, nor did I need to tell any lies about the situation.

The Polish health service has always treated me just great. It also treats my in-laws extremely well. On one occasion a Polish doctor literally saved my life.

This may have something to do with the fact that I am often asked to translate/proof-read medical papers by medical professionals, and have close friends who are doctors.

On the other hand, I remember my mother-in-law dying painfully of cancer, before I had made such contacts. She was treated like sh1t.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
8 Sep 2013  #20
This may have something to do with the fact that I am often asked to translate/proof-read medical papers by medical professionals, and have close friends who are doctors.

Ah, corruption at its very finest - undetectable and only open to those who have the means of accessing it. This is one reason why someone considering giving birth in Poland should be aware that unless you are paying, doctors can be unprofessional morons who would rather treat their friends than who actually needs treatments. Same applies in most countries, of course.

It's also worth pointing out that in Poland, the whole concept of "looking after one's own" is taken to extremes in places such as the health service.

As for the OP, the Polish wife is behaving entirely normally. Pregnancy is seen as a life threatening disease in Poland, and must be checked at insane intervals with vast amounts of medicine prescribed.

On the other hand, I remember my mother-in-law dying painfully of cancer, before I had made such contacts. She was treated like sh1t.

Common problem in most health care systems, unfortunately.
szczecinianin 4 | 345
8 Sep 2013  #21
This seems to be the opposite of what you had been informing us earlier. The health service in Poland is great. But that's only really true for the 'haves'.

I honestly believe that care in the UK is more 'universal', and that the quality of it does not necessarily depend on your financial/social relationship with the person treating you.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
8 Sep 2013  #22
This seems to be the opposite of what you had been informing us earlier. The health service in Poland is great. But that's only really true for the 'haves'.

I never mentioned that the health service was great, only that I had a good experience with it, contrary to what the doom-sayer Milky said about it being dreadful. I also said "can be" rather than "will be".

My opinion (that seems to be shared by others) is that the NFZ system has caused a situation where the care seems to depend wildly on the management of the institution.
monia 3 | 212
8 Sep 2013  #23
It's nothing to do with the quality of the education and everything to do with the rights that the papers give.

Not satisfied with your crap education and that`s why you are so frustrated living among educated Polish people ????

she will not give birth to our baby in ireland because she doesnt trust our hospital system here

Reggie -your wife is right and let her give birth in Poland; she will be here in the care of professionals and will be sure she will not fall as a victim of statistics. The rankings are for fools. I feel safe, in Polish hospitals person is not treated like an object, like a screw in the machinery. In the EU, Canada and the U.S. patients are being manipulated and brainwashed that they should think that they live in paradise. In Poland, the system may not be perfect, but it is honest. Behind the facade of smiles in your countries lies hypocrisy and perfidy, the patient and his health does not mean anything, what matters is - rankings. Your delusion is that everything is perfect , but in fact it is not. As an example, I will give Mount Sinai Hospital , Toronto, Canada on University Avenue . There, I gave birth to my daughter. Labor lasted 10 hours , at all costs they tried to force my body to natural childbirth . After 10 hours of torture , there came a surgeon who said that the fetus is positioned incorrectly , so only caesarean section would safe our lives . Epidural did not prevent my great pain I have been for 10 hours . I was kept under the huge stress , pain and frustration. All this because of recommendations from the ministry to save costs , because the cesarean sections are costly in comparison to natural births . They want also to manipulate the statistics to be ranked higher and tease people and delusioned voters that they live in a safe country with a safe health system , while it is nothing but deceiving potential voters . Therefore I was a victim of this propaganda .

In Poland , fortunately, there is no such pressure , and women can choose the type of birth . Moreover, in Canada, this level of professionalism is so low that the doctor ( surgean or obstetrician is not able to manipulate the fetus to be properly set up and support emerging , where in Poland it is a common practice . In Canada, even the doctor does not have such skills.

Epidural is also not given widely , because it harms more than helps . It was applied to me and since that I1ve had a constant back pain . In Poland, there are no artificially improving the rankings practices , but the appropriate level of treatment is provided .

Why do these rankings take into account factors such as natural childbirth , instead of eg the number of transplants surgeries per capita among those who are in need ? The hospital should ensure cleanliness and sterility , Poland is ahead in that than more developed countries . In these rankings , for example, they take into account the number of cancer cases , which is also unfair. Poland in 1996 was under the influence of radioactive radiation due to the Chernobyl disaster. Doctors at that time said that the incidence of cancer will increase significantly over the next years. So these statistics also lie and obscure the picture , since at the start in Poland there are more people at risk of cancer.

In relation to having children the health system in Ireland is excellent, my personal experience of the Polish health system, in general is that it is a mess.( a total disaster with no communication and its nobodies fault)

Polish health system one of the worst in Europe: report

It is good that you Milky cited this report: healthpowerhouse.com/files/Report-EHCI-2012.pdf

I have read quickly this report and I can only say it is a manipulation of data . There are factors which are irrelevant for the patient , but they are valued by its authors , like having internet site about medicines or booklets from the hospitals about procedures .

In important factors Poland ranks high or in the middle .In some factors there is nothing to do by the system , because for example cancer morbidity among Polish people is high .

Let me show you some examples : in outpatients visits per person per year , Poland is ranked 7-th , yellow color ( diagram from page 11 ). It means that supply of medical services is high In Poland , or in % of streptococcus infections prevention in hospitals Poland is almost 50 % better than Ireland or UK and 3 times better than Italy ( which means, there is a small chance you will contract bacterial infection from a hospital treatment in Poland )- page 63 .

Also this report contains Cesarean sections data, which is irrelevant . It is caused by individual tendency not the system , and moreover Polish women can choose what kind of birth they want .

There is a cesarean section on demand in Polish hospitals.

In outcomes and prevention sections which are the most important there are spheres where Poland is in the middle. We lag behind in cancer, undiagnosed diabetes or kidney transplants or dialysis. These are spheres which Polish system must improve . In these cases you have to pay for it , which I understand , because "Poland is not the richest country in Europe " and these procedures are very costly . There are only 8000 patients per year , who require that treatment, but the cost is 240 000 000 PLN.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
8 Sep 2013  #24
Not satisfied with your crap education and that`s why you are so frustrated living among educated Polish people ????

No Monia, rather the fact that everyone knows the truth about English language medical studies in Poland. If it wasn't for the price, no-one would come.

There is a cesarean section on demand in Polish hospitals.

Sorry, but the internet is full of people saying otherwise. You might be able to bribe someone to get one, but hospitals are generally reluctant to organise them in advance and certainly not on demand.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
8 Sep 2013  #25
People, rather than bicker over details that are only as good as the methods used to gather them let's go back to original post.

Reggie, run this scenario over in your head and after you think about it for a bit and discuss it with your wife then you'll make whatever decision you think is right:

If something, however unlikely, goes wrong and you have to make decisions for your wife and child would you rather be in that situation in Poland or Ireland? You have to consider your role here and if all goes well, it's a largely supportive one. But what if....? Where is your support network better? Where will you be of more use to your family? How long would you be able to comfortably deal with complications out of Ireland.

Everything will go fine of course but you should consider such things.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
8 Sep 2013  #26
If something, however unlikely, goes wrong and you have to make decisions for your wife and child would you rather be in that situation in Poland or Ireland?

It's worth bearing in mind that in Ireland, he can't make problems go away by handing a brown envelope over.
Foreigner4 12 | 1,769
8 Sep 2013  #27
That is true but I am merely asking him to consider in which country he would be better equipped to make decisions or ascertain medical information, of course language and familiarity with the system are the big 2 to consider there. It is also worth bearing in mind that numbers seem to suggest he would be less likely to have to hand over a brown envelope in Ireland.
mafketis 20 | 7,243
8 Sep 2013  #28
has gone over to poland for every scan one every 4 to 6 weeks since she found out she was pregnant

It sounds like she has a doctor (or clinic) in Poland that she's comfortable and feels safe with. That is a very valuable resource for a pregnant woman to have. Why try to talk her out of it?

If you needed a major operation and had scheduled with a doctor you trusted then you probably wouldn't appreciate a bunch of horror stories (of the type that can happen anywhere) and pressure to have the operation in conditions you weren't comfortable with.
monia 3 | 212
8 Sep 2013  #29
You might be able to bribe someone to get one, but hospitals are generally reluctant to organise them in advance and certainly not on demand.

Your paranoia about myths of bribes is known here as well as your ussual anti- Polish hate propaganda. You have got some issues regarding education , right ?

NFZ covers cesarean section . In some hospitals it amounts to 90 % of all births . I am not surprised it is done under local anesthesia without any pain . On the other hand it brings more risk to the woman or a newborn . My opinion is that such procedure should be limited only to necessary cases .
delphiandomine 83 | 17,647
8 Sep 2013  #30
I would say that given the mentality of Polish women towards pregnancy, she probably won't get the care that she expects in Ireland.

Why try to talk her out of it?

Well, the cost may have something to do with it...


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